Club Focus Collingwood 2020 - Henry, Macrae, McInnes, Poulter, McMahon, McCreery

[Lore]

Data from footywire. To check the draft order (updated weekly) see the thread here.

 

[THE_GUN]

Agreed. Geelong and Richmond have managed better than us, 100%. Your example though was Carlton.
In saying that, there are surely some Richmond players who can/will/do earn much more than they should be, which is fine when they have flags behind them now. If Pies had won in 2018/2019 no one would blink if we had to offload some to manage cap etc.
We gambled and lost essentially.

But my point stands and Carlton have managed their cap better
Cripps , Docherty , Murphy , MacKay , Curnow , Wietering ,Walsh just to name a few then you have their incoming big $$ guys like McGovern,Williams,Saad
Younger top end draft kids like Stocker , Dow,Kemp,Philp,LOB etc.

List v List Carlton are better and you will find they are infront of Collingwood from now on on the ladder - Yet the Pies have the cap issues mainly due to mismanagementof salaries to the likes of Beams , Cox , treloar , Mayne , De Goey and Grundy that we know about

Who knows what they are paying Howe , Moore , Adams , Maynard , Crisp and a few others that have actually proven they are worth the $$$

 

[Marcel Proust]

But my point stands and Carlton have managed their cap better
Cripps , Docherty , Murphy , MacKay , Curnow , Wietering ,Walsh just to name a few then you have their incoming big $$ guys like McGovern,Williams,Saad
Younger top end draft kids like Stocker , Dow,Kemp,Philp,LOB etc.

List v List Carlton are better and you will find they are infront of Collingwood from now on on the ladder - Yet the Pies have the cap issues mainly due to mismanagementof salaries to the likes of Beams , Cox , treloar , Mayne , De Goey and Grundy that we know about

Who knows what they are paying Howe , Moore , Adams , Maynard , Crisp and a few others that have actually proven they are worth the $$$

The blues have been completely rubbish since Jesus was a young lad.

The pies got within a kick in 18 v wce and
Just lost one of the best games ever in the Giants prelim

 

[THE_GUN]

The blues have been completely rubbish since Jesus was a young lad.

The pies got within a kick in 18 v wce and
Just lost one of the best games ever in the Giants prelim

Yes they did get within a kick but they have just been a 3-8 team the last 10 years since Buckley came in as coach, I think the 2018 pies performance was an exception rather than their normal level but they blow the bank based on that performance.

Im happy to back my opinion and go on record to say that the Blues will be better than the Pies for the next 10 years and have built a good core of players with reasonable depth and they are starting to come into their age group to take the next step where the pies will be on the decline with their best players in
Howe , Pendlebury , Sidebottom getting to the end and losing the likes of Treloar nd stephonson ,Phillips , Langdon etc will take away their depth
they have 2 maybe 3 kids i would say look the goods and thats it.

 

[AusMC]

I disagree, but then that's my bias. Next 2-3 years probably, but not 10. Blues will need to make finals this year or their good players will start to look elsewhere. How long can Cripps carry them on his own? Williams, Saad etc should help that, but if they don't have a strong impact then s**t will hit the fan imo. Blues supporters are very proud, won't stand for it for much longer.

 

[4tune8]

Thought I'd drop into this thread as I am interested to see how Collingwood are going to use their picks in the draft. Not much chat about that but NM.

Now I'm no list manager and can't imagine the complexity of that job but it's got me perplexed how Collingwood are going to use their picks to rejuvenate their list. They've lost 13 players through retirements, delistings and trades, bringing the list number in total down from 47 to 34, meaning that they'll need to add between 8-10 players in the upcoming drafts.

Let's say they get an ideal outcome with a bid not coming for MacInness until after their 1st two picks, say a bid at 18. That bid would require around 800 points after discount but they only have about 150 points in their picks 65, 70 and 75. I assume that the 650 point deficit would then be carried over to next year to come off their 1st round pick value. If they end up with pick 10 then that would move back to around pick 18. But they also have to have enough points to cover a bid for Nick Daicos next year who could go at pick 1. If a pick 1 bid does eventuate then that will wipe out all of the picks next year too.

I know I'm going on a bit here but I'm just trying to get my head around it and I'm hoping that someone can clarify.

So over the next 2 years Collingwood may only end up with 4 picks in the National draft to replace at least 8 this year plus whatever losses from the list there are next year. Does that mean that the list regeneration this year will come from the rookie draft where they may need to recruit up to 5 players at the least? Then next year hope to replenish the list through trades?

 

[JLC]

I think the club needs to turn 14 and 16 and next years first pick, into a top 5 pick.

It is unlikely that Reef will be bid on in the top 5.

That way we get two potential elite players.

It would be a waste to use 14 or 16 on Reef.

Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk

 

[THE_GUN]

I disagree, but then that's my bias. Next 2-3 years probably, but not 10. Blues will need to make finals this year or their good players will start to look elsewhere. How long can Cripps carry them on his own? Williams, Saad etc should help that, but if they don't have a strong impact then sh*t will hit the fan imo. Blues supporters are very proud, won't stand for it for much longer.

No longer needs to carry them on his own and also How long has Pendles carried the pies ? Cripps is just 25 years old and another 7-8 years of good football in him.
Carlton have list of young talent thats all under 23 as well as a solid defence with a great key back and a very very good foward line thats young and talented
Pies have Moore in defence then its starvation corner with Howe and Roughead on their last legs and a foward line thats relying on Cox

2020 is the start of the collingwood decline and looking at the pies list i see another 12-15 players coming off it in the next 2 years with a bunch of kids coming through. Pies are in world of hurt for the next 4-5 years and i think their main rival will be the likes of Crows & Roo's in that time

But in saying that i also believe Richmond have another 2 years before having to rebuild to degree also with Astbury,Cotchin,Grimes,Riewoldt,Houli , Edwards getting to the end (just to give my opinion balance so not to seem to be just here bagging pies)

 

[Crazy Tails]

I think the club needs to turn 14 and 16 and next years first pick, into a top 5 pick.

It is unlikely that Reef will be bid on in the top 5.

That way we get two potential elite players.

It would be a waste to use 14 or 16 on Reef.

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You need a buyer to be able to get in there though. Not sure any of the current top 5 want to trade out. Maybe get one of Essendon’s picks if they feel they’ve nailed their top 2.


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[Northernsoul74]

I think the club needs to turn 14 and 16 and next years first pick, into a top 5 pick.

It is unlikely that Reef will be bid on in the top 5.

That way we get two potential elite players.

It would be a waste to use 14 or 16 on Reef.

Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk

I’d be wary of trading next years first just yet. If the draft is as good as thought you could get a very good price for it closer to the time. I get you have Daicos but you should maximum the value of that pick.

 

[Shadow89]

Thought I'd drop into this thread as I am interested to see how Collingwood are going to use their picks in the draft. Not much chat about that but NM.

Now I'm no list manager and can't imagine the complexity of that job but it's got me perplexed how Collingwood are going to use their picks to rejuvenate their list. They've lost 13 players through retirements, delistings and trades, bringing the list number in total down from 47 to 34, meaning that they'll need to add between 8-10 players in the upcoming drafts.

Let's say they get an ideal outcome with a bid not coming for MacInness until after their 1st two picks, say a bid at 18. That bid would require around 800 points after discount but they only have about 150 points in their picks 65, 70 and 75. I assume that the 650 point deficit would then be carried over to next year to come off their 1st round pick value. If they end up with pick 10 then that would move back to around pick 18. But they also have to have enough points to cover a bid for Nick Daicos next year who could go at pick 1. If a pick 1 bid does eventuate then that will wipe out all of the picks next year too.

I know I'm going on a bit here but I'm just trying to get my head around it and I'm hoping that someone can clarify.

So over the next 2 years Collingwood may only end up with 4 picks in the National draft to replace at least 8 this year plus whatever losses from the list there are next year. Does that mean that the list regeneration this year will come from the rookie draft where they may need to recruit up to 5 players at the least? Then next year hope to replenish the list through trades?

All of the above is exactly what I've been wondering too. Curious to see how they pull it off

 

[Laphroaig]

I disagree, but then that's my bias. Next 2-3 years probably, but not 10. Blues will need to make finals this year or their good players will start to look elsewhere. How long can Cripps carry them on his own? Williams, Saad etc should help that, but if they don't have a strong impact then sh*t will hit the fan imo. Blues supporters are very proud, won't stand for it for much longer.

I think you'll find Blues supporters have had the opportunity to learn a bit of humility. And to beware of impatience and the consequences of shortcuts.

A number of sides expected to be in the 5 to 12 bracket in 2021 have improved markedly (on paper). It's going to be a very interesting year.

 

[citizen-erased]

I think the club needs to turn 14 and 16 and next years first pick, into a top 5 pick.

It is unlikely that Reef will be bid on in the top 5.

That way we get two potential elite players.

It would be a waste to use 14 or 16 on Reef.

Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk

Top 6?

 

[4tune8]

All of the above is exactly what I've been wondering too. Curious to see how they pull it off

This is who they've lost this year....

Trades:

Treloar
Stephenson
Phillips
Bosenavulagi

Retirements:

Beams
Dunn
Langdon
Reid
Varcoe

Delistings:

Appleby
Broomhead
Scharenberg
Wills

Through the draft for the next 2 years they might only pick up Reef MacInness, Nick Daicos and 2 other 1st round picks, granted that's not a bad haul but it doesn't come close to replacing those who have left either through numbers or talent.

To have to rely on the rookie draft to replenish your list just smacks of incompetence, fancy having to bring in 5-6 rookies to add depth and quality to your list!

I really think that next year is going to be a problem with the ability to only pick up 1 player in the draft, what happens if they have to take 3 picks which was the norm? Plus there's no pick collateral to trade for RFA's or contracted players meaning they'll have to use future picks or just target FA's.

I think that there's a shitload more to play out in this, oh, and not to mention the 9% drop in TPP's.

*Edit.....3 or more players could retire at the end of next year, Pendlebury, Mayne and Greenwood.

 

[perplexed]

Thought I'd drop into this thread as I am interested to see how Collingwood are going to use their picks in the draft. Not much chat about that but NM.

Now I'm no list manager and can't imagine the complexity of that job but it's got me perplexed how Collingwood are going to use their picks to rejuvenate their list. They've lost 13 players through retirements, delistings and trades, bringing the list number in total down from 47 to 34, meaning that they'll need to add between 8-10 players in the upcoming drafts.

Let's say they get an ideal outcome with a bid not coming for MacInness until after their 1st two picks, say a bid at 18. That bid would require around 800 points after discount but they only have about 150 points in their picks 65, 70 and 75. I assume that the 650 point deficit would then be carried over to next year to come off their 1st round pick value. If they end up with pick 10 then that would move back to around pick 18. But they also have to have enough points to cover a bid for Nick Daicos next year who could go at pick 1. If a pick 1 bid does eventuate then that will wipe out all of the picks next year too.

I know I'm going on a bit here but I'm just trying to get my head around it and I'm hoping that someone can clarify.

So over the next 2 years Collingwood may only end up with 4 picks in the National draft to replace at least 8 this year plus whatever losses from the list there are next year. Does that mean that the list regeneration this year will come from the rookie draft where they may need to recruit up to 5 players at the least? Then next year hope to replenish the list through trades?

If bids come for juh, campbell and jones before mcinnes, those pies picks will likely be closer to the fifties by the time they match. It shouldn't be hard to avoid a deficit.
I expect they'll take 3 early and 3 late this draft. They shouldnt trade their 2021 1st until next year when it will be worth more.

 

[THE_GUN]

This is who they've lost this year....

Trades:

Treloar
Stephenson
Phillips
Bosenavulagi

Retirements:

Beams
Dunn
Langdon
Reid
Varcoe

Delistings:

Appleby
Broomhead
Scharenberg
Wills

Through the draft for the next 2 years they might only pick up Reef MacInness, Nick Daicos and 2 other 1st round picks, granted that's not a bad haul but it doesn't come close to replacing those who have left either through numbers or talent.

To have to rely on the rookie draft to replenish your list just smacks of incompetence, fancy having to bring in 5-6 rookies to add depth and quality to your list!

I really think that next year is going to be a problem with the ability to only pick up 1 player in the draft, what happens if they have to take 3 picks which was the norm? Plus there's no pick collateral to trade for RFA's or contracted players meaning they'll have to use future picks or just target FA's.

I think that there's a shitload more to play out in this, oh, and not to mention the 9% drop in TPP's.

*Edit.....3 or more players could retire at the end of next year, Pendlebury, Mayne and Greenwood.

Treloar
Stephenson
Phillips
Bosenavulagi

Retirements:

Beams
Dunn
Langdon
Reid
Varcoe

Delistings:

Appleby
Broomhead
Scharenberg
Wills


Only 2 of the above listed players have played any significant games , My god what a terrible group of players they have been carrying

 

[JayJ20]

I think the club needs to turn 14 and 16 and next years first pick, into a top 5 pick.

It is unlikely that Reef will be bid on in the top 5.

That way we get two potential elite players.

It would be a waste to use 14 or 16 on Reef.

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I think Essendon are a genuine chance to use pick 6 to bid on Reef. Not to make Collingwood pay, but because we actually want him. I doubt Collingwood match a bid at pick 6. I'd expect only JUH to be bid on before our pick.

Reef would be perfect for us. 193cm, 86kg inside mid and also an Essendon supporter. Yes please.

 

[4tune8]

If bids come for juh, campbell and jones before mcinnes, those pies picks will likely be closer to the fifties by the time they match. It shouldn't be hard to avoid a deficit.
I expect they'll take 3 early and 3 late this draft. They shouldnt trade their 2021 1st until next year when it will be worth more.

It's not really the deficit that's the problem but even if those picks come up by 15 places each there will still be a deficit and those later picks will be wiped out.

The main problem is the loss of players this year and how to replace those numbers. I'm not completely across list numbers but I know that the main list requires 36-38 and then a maximum of 6 rookies, so a total of 42-44 players.

After this years departures there's 34 currently so between 8-10 have to be added to the list. So there's 3 early picks and that's it. The other 5 players have to be added via the rookie draft and in my mind that's no way to build depth at the club, remembering that they will probably have only 1 pick next year to deal with departures.

 

[perplexed]

It's not really the deficit that's the problem but even if those picks come up by 15 places each there will still be a deficit and those later picks will be wiped out.

The main problem is the loss of players this year and how to replace those numbers. I'm not completely across list numbers but I know that the main list requires 36-38 and then a maximum of 6 rookies, so a total of 42-44 players.

After this years departures there's 34 currently so between 8-10 have to be added to the list. So there's 3 early picks and that's it. The other 5 players have to be added via the rookie draft and in my mind that's no way to build depth at the club, remembering that they will probably have only 1 pick next year to deal with departures.

When you use multiple picks to match a bid, new picks get created at the end of the order,.As many picks as you have free list spots.
Collingwood have 30 on their main list, so can take 6-8 players in the ND. Plus some rookies if they want to. Less if they pick up some dfa's.

 

[4tune8]

When you use multiple picks to match a bid, new picks get created at the end of the order,.As many picks as you have free list spots.
Collingwood have 30 on their main list, so can take 6-8 players in the ND. Plus some rookies if they want to. Less if they pick up some dfa's.

Ah, thanks for clarifying, I was a bit perplexed (sorry) as to how they will replenish their list now that they have the lowest list size in the comp. Still not really ideal to stock up with players that are taken at the back end of the draft though.

 

[markm106]

Article on the Age site saying it’s believed Essendon are a big chance to bid on Reef with one of their top 10 picks. But hard to imagine pies getting in before 6 with a trade.

 

[TradeDraft]

Article on the Age site saying it’s believed Essendon are a big chance to bid on Reef with one of their top 10 picks. But hard to imagine pies getting in before 6 with a trade.

0 Chance we do that but also Reported we are looking to trade for the Dons Pick 8 as well so I am not sure IF that because of a Bid or not

 

[markm106]

0 Chance we do that but also Reported we are looking to trade for the Dons Pick 8 as well so I am not sure IF that because of a Bid or not

I imagine Essendon keen on your first next year perhaps.

 

[TradeDraft]

I imagine Essendon keen on your first next year perhaps.

They would want more then just next years 1st for Pick 8 though IF they Bid for Reef that Pick would be Eaten Up anyway

 

[The 747]

I think the club needs to turn 14 and 16 and next years first pick, into a top 5 pick.

It is unlikely that Reef will be bid on in the top 5.

That way we get two potential elite players.

It would be a waste to use 14 or 16 on Reef.

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As 4tune8 noted, you now have to fill your list with very late selections due to all the cuts. Putting three draft picks into one on top of that is dumb (including one next year in a highly rated draft) - although the club has shown itself to be kinda dumb lately.

 

[The 747]

Master Dodoro move, trade them 7 and change for 14, 16 and next year's first.

Bid on Reef with pick 6.