Roast Concussion? Nah, walk it off boys..

[NoddyHolder]

In the Geelong game last week Stewart had a head knock … PASSED the concussion test, but was taken out of the game as the doctor didn’t like the way it looked on replay…..

Would there have been a concussion test if it was in the first 10 minutes of the game or the margin was 10 goals either way …?? 100% yes.


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Agree. Coach should be immediately stood down by the afl. Permanently. An example needs to be set

 

[Tibbs]

The headlines everywhere read "Sickening Head clash" ... Actually watching the replay, it is clear that Jonas & butters clashed face-to-face. Most of the pain receptors from your neck up are centred around the nose & eye area, and are wired directly into the brains emotional signalling hub, whereas pain receptors in other parts of the body are only indirectly wired, and can withstand more pain.

When they clashed faces at that that speed, the instant pain reaction is to pull away and lessen the impact. Yes they can still get concussion from that, but the pain signalling in their front facial area would have been immediately massive and disabling for them both - easily mistaken for concussion symptoms.

I know this because I fell off a horse a little while back, and landed flush on my face ... I have hurt myself on many occasions over the years, in different areas, but the immediate pain on that occasion was next level. I didnt have concussion, it was more a grinding of my face along the gravel (yes ouch!). But, I couldnt talk, I couldnt think, I wouldnt allow anyone near me for about 3 minutes until it subsided and I could think above it.

Thats why they were hunched over like that immediately after the clash. It was the debilitating effect of that facial pain. I had shivers of sympathy pain for them after!

 

[Papa G]

So what ended up happening, Butters with a cut to the cheek, and Jonas with a cut to the eyebrow?

ticked off by the AFL after talking to our medical staff.
All clear nothing to see here.

Just because it looked bad and there was blood doesnt make it any worse than when dusty got kneed in the back of the head by reiwoldt

But this thread was started by one of our own soft utensil supporters.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

If only Ken defended his players as strongly as he defended the club doctor.

 

[RossFC]

Injury report: Butters expected to be available for Swans clash

Zak Butters had stitches for a laceration to his right cheek however is expected to be available for next weekend's game against Sydney.

www.portadelaidefc.com.au

PORT ADELAIDE forward Zak Butters

9

Zak Butters

Age

23

Ht

181cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.3

4star

K

7.7

3star

HB

6.7

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.8

3star

D

14.7

4star

K

8.9

4star

HB

5.9

3star

M

3.9

4star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.1

3star

D

17.0

5star

K

9.0

4star

HB

8.0

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.6

4star

CL

0.6

3star

is expected to be available for next weekend’s game against Sydney after being cleared of any major damage to his cheek.

Butters had stitches for a laceration to his right cheek after colliding with captain Tom Jonas in the final quarter of last night’s game against Richmond.

Scans have shown Butters has a small hairline crack in the cheek bone, but he has been cleared by a specialist to be available to face the Swans at Adelaide Oval on Saturday week.

Jonas also had stitches on an eyelid laceration he received in the same contest.

 

[PA88]

I thought that Hinkley's first response was good.

"I've got a doctor who's been with our footy club for 25 years and the conversation between our doctor and our football manager during the game was these boys have got no issue with concussion.
"If anyone's got a challenge on that and they feel more qualified than Mark Fisher, who's a 25-year AFL doctor, feel free.
but he should have stopped there. however instead he went on and on which then sounded a but stupid.
"I think you'd want to be really, really sure you're not trying to umpire or make some calls from outside the fence when you have no knowledge. We've got a very experienced doctor who has the utmost respect in the AFL."

But then he went on about it and it began sounding a bit silly.

I had no problem with the boys getting back on the field. The doc made the call, end of story. The boys coming back onto the field of play was to me the best part of our game last night.

 

[PrisonBars4life]

It was raised briefly by the commentary team just after it happened (right before the Baker goal) but only as something worthy of a free kick, not a suspension.

I know I saw - once again it was Carey who said it while the others were more interested in courting controversy.

 

[PrisonBars4life]

I thought that Hinkley's first response was good.

"I've got a doctor who's been with our footy club for 25 years and the conversation between our doctor and our football manager during the game was these boys have got no issue with concussion.
"If anyone's got a challenge on that and they feel more qualified than Mark Fisher, who's a 25-year AFL doctor, feel free.
but he should have stopped there. however instead he went on and on which then sounded a but stupid.
"I think you'd want to be really, really sure you're not trying to umpire or make some calls from outside the fence when you have no knowledge. We've got a very experienced doctor who has the utmost respect in the AFL."

But then he went on about it and it began sounding a bit silly.

I had no problem with the boys getting back on the field. The doc made the call, end of story. The boys coming back onto the field of play was to me the best part of our game last night.

They kept on asking him about the event in slightly different ways trying to get him to concede we had done something wrong. He just said, 'are you questioning the doctor' over and over again and they worked out they couldn't come up with a question that didn't amount to 'yeah, but it looked bad'.

 

[Rexie J]

They kept on asking him about the event in slightly different ways trying to get him to concede we had done something wrong. He just said, 'are you questioning the doctor' over and over again and they worked out they couldn't come up with a question that didn't amount to 'yeah, but it looked bad'.

Agreed. One of the only if not the only best part of a Hinkley presser. Whoever was repeatedly asking the same question was simply looking for a headline - nothing else.

 

[davesnothere]

You have the situation of a clear clash of heads.
You have 2 players motionless on the ground.
You have one clearly disoriented going back to the bench.

That's not in dispute.

The doctor looked at these facts and they are facts, then made the call there was absolutely no risk of concussion.


I'm more than happy to call that out as incompatance.

 

[edgie]

So it's not at all possible to get a knock in the face and not have concussion?

It hurts and it shocks. It does not mean concussion. So Jonas ran a little to the right. Because he was holding his head down, not looking where he was going, because he was smashed in the eye. Not exactly irrefutable proof (though I do believe Jonas was deserving a test, that alone isn't the smoking gun).

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[nadsee]

And they made that thorough assessment in 3 minutes. I don’t believe that for a second.

Might be a really good doctor!

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

You have the situation of a clear clash of heads.
You have 2 players motionless on the ground.
You have one clearly disoriented going back to the bench.

That's not in dispute.

The doctor looked at these facts and they are facts, then made the call there was absolutely no risk of concussion.


I'm more than happy to call that out as incompatance.

They weren't motionless on the ground for more that a split second, not a minute or two. Within 2 seconds Jonas had pushed himself up with his arms and Butters had rolled a bit from side to side before he finally starts to get up.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

AFL 'satisfied' with Power's handling of sickening head clash

The AFL has released a statement in response to Port Adelaide's handling of its concussion protocols

www.afl.com.au

THE AFL has ticked off Port Adelaide's handling of its concussion protocols during Friday night's loss to Richmond at the MCG. ................ Questions were raised if the Power followed the correct protocols surrounding head knocks, but the AFL released a statement on Friday clearing the club of any wrongdoing.

The AFL's Chief Medical Officer has reviewed the HawkEye vision of the collision last night between Port Adelaide players Jonas and Butters. He has also reviewed the management of the players at the time including the sideline assessment and HawkEye evaluation by the club doctors," the statement read.

"Ultimately, there was no clinical indication of concussion that warranted further investigation and testing, thus the club doctors allowing both players to return to the field.

"The AFL is satisfied that the club complied with the AFL’s concussion guidelines in the management of the players."

This bit in the article is taken straight from Jonas' MMM interview this morning.

Jonas said he and Butters were cleared of concussion and not pressured to return to the action.

"They (medicos) basically ask where you are, what’s your birthday, who is your significant other, what’s your phone number all those sort of things," Jonas told Triple M radio. " ... In terms of last night, there was absolutely no pressure from the (coaches) box for us to get back on.

"Particularly in my role as a players association board delegate, I appreciate the gravity and seriousness of the concussion issue. "So there was no pressure to go on and I wouldn’t have gone on if I felt like I was putting the doctors, the club and the competition at risk given all the great work we have done in that area.

"The doctors ... say 'we have assessed the footage and there is nothing on there that would indicate a concussion'."

 

[treegreen]

They weren't motionless on the ground for more that a split second, not a minute or two. Within 2 seconds Jonas had pushed himself up with his arms and Butters had rolled a bit from side to side before he finally starts to get up.

This is a such a laughable misunderstanding of concussion that you could get a role as a Doctor at Port Adelaide.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

This is a such a laughable misunderstanding of concussion that you could get a role as a Doctor at Port Adelaide.

And you have obviously done your medical degree and done another 20 years of neurological post graduate study to know everything about it.

Dr Fisher has been in the sports science game for 35 years and club doctor for 25 years. I will take his word and the AFL Chief Medical Officer's word over some internet nuffie any day.

 

[Papa G]

Do boxers get concussion every single time they take a punch?

 

[treegreen]

And you have obviously done your medical degree and done another 20 years of neurological post graduate study to know everything about it.

Dr Fisher has been in the sports science game for 35 years and club doctor for 25 years. I will take his word and the AFL Chief Medical Officer's word over some internet nuffie any day.

That he's been in the industry for a long time is irrelevant.

We have very clear guidelines for medical professionals to follow when an athlete is suspected of concussion, which "Dr" Fisher failed to follow. This may be because he is genuinely incompetent or made a conscious decision to prioritise sporting success over player wellbeing.

Either way, he made the wrong call.

 

[TeeKray]

This tree guy has no idea who he is picking a fight with.

REHcking ball incoming lol.

 

[PA88]

That he's been in the industry for a long time is irrelevant.

We have very clear guidelines for medical professionals to follow when an athlete is suspected of concussion, which "Dr" Fisher failed to follow. This may be because he is genuinely incompetent or made a conscious decision to prioritise sporting success over player wellbeing.

Either way, he made the wrong call.

lol ... this teegreen bloke's on the ball ... couldn't have posted this any slower

 

[davesnothere]

So it's not at all possible to get a knock in the face and not have concussion?

It hurts and it shocks. It does not mean concussion. So Jonas ran a little to the right. Because he was holding his head down, not looking where he was going, because he was smashed in the eye. Not exactly irrefutable proof (though I do believe Jonas was deserving a test, that alone isn't the smoking gun).

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You check. You make the assumption particularly with the evidence at hand and then clear them. Play on. But you check before saying ok.

 

[cmpower]

Isn’t watching the incident and asking players those questions part of the Concussion Test? If so, shouldn’t the players have been of for 20mins?

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

That he's been in the industry for a long time is irrelevant.

We have very clear guidelines for medical professionals to follow when an athlete is suspected of concussion, which "Dr" Fisher failed to follow. This may be because he is genuinely incompetent or made a conscious decision to prioritise sporting success over player wellbeing.

Either way, he made the wrong call.

Where are the guidelines and protocols. List them. Link them.

Your interpretation isn't good enough. Produce them.

Don't give me this bullshit that I read it in the media the commentators have told me etc. Commentators speak a lot of s**t. Produce the official AFL Guidelines for the Management of Concussion at AFL level.

Give me a full detailed run down of what Dr Fisher did last night. Step by step by step by step.

Why did the AFL Chief Medical Officer clear Dr Fischer and not take treegreen's 132 page submission into account??

I repeat, I will take the assessment of Dr Fisher and the AFL Chief Medical Officer's word over some internet nuffie any day.

 

[edgie]

Do boxers get concussion every single time they take a punch?

Apparently.

I'm clinically brain-dead.

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[edgie]

You check. You make the assumption particularly with the evidence at hand and then clear them. Play on. But you check before saying ok.

So you think a check should have been done?

I don't know how it works. It seems there's a very early stage concussion test, as Jonas talked about, then I guess if that's a fail then there's the proper test.

It seems some form of checking was done.

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