Dustin Martin is better than Dangerfield

THE_GUN

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...you realised you just proved Sttew's post, right?
How so !! He jumped into our posts about Dusty/Danger calling me an insecure Richmond supporter whilst having a mare about dangerfield
Seemed insecure to me and asked him what he thought about dangers game.

Im far from insecure about anything to do with Martin , He is the best player in the comp and was in 2017 also
 

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BJK#5

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B & F in a premiership year along with a Norm Smith is worth 5 best / fairest in anybodys world
But if you were to ask any player what would they prefer AA or a premiership i think you will find that Dusty wins hands down

Anyway Danger has 2 seasons on Dusty , I can see dusty in 5-6 years going past these
Well of course they would rather the premiership but when judging two players on individual ability only one of those two things are an individual award.
 

THE_GUN

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Well of course they would rather the premiership but when judging two players on individual ability only one of those two things are an individual award.
Its the performances in games like GF / Prelim is the point i was making
but when the AA and B&F comes into the argument then clearly the premiership and the norm smith has to also

But personally i think most here agree that its Dusty over Danger so let it go for another 5 years and see at the end of their careers
Dusty could end up with 4 premierships 3 norm smith's 5 AA and 4 B & F 's ;)
 

Forward Press

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Its the performances in games like GF / Prelim is the point i was making
but when the AA and B&F comes into the argument then clearly the premiership and the norm smith has to also


But personally i think most here agree that its Dusty over Danger so let it go for another 5 years and see at the end of their careers
Dusty could end up with 4 premierships 3 norm smith's 5 AA and 4 B & F 's ;)
Personally I think that's not a logical argument.

Any player is in the running to win an All Australian and B+F during their careers.

But only players in teams strong enough to make Grand Finals ever have the opportunity to win a flag, and even at that stage there is only so much you can do as one player out of 44.

Sure, you can compare team success using that metric but using that to judge players is much more limited than things like AA and B+F. Matthew Pavlich had one opportunity in 350 games to win a flag or Norm Smith - Grant Birchall had five, for example. That's just how the AFL works.
 

mc snooza

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Martin did not single handley win your team a flag in 2017.
He was a big part of the success but he was in the right place at the right time.

It's laughable to even put Martin in the same category as Carey. It's not even close. It only indicates your age by doing so.
Quote Leigh Matthews, best individual season he has seen by a player Dustin Martin 2017.
But you obviously know more than Leigh Matthews.

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BJK#5

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Quote Leigh Matthews, best individual season he has seen by a player Dustin Martin 2017.
But you obviously know more than Leigh Matthews.

On Redmi Note 7 using BigFooty.com mobile app
This is one of my favourite ones, so because one person (all be it a legend) made that claim it is all of a sudden true? He has an opinion he is totally entitled to but i think it was incredibly seduced by recency bias. Go to very late in that season and he was not even the definitive best player of the season. He had one of if not the most successful individual season but he was not better in 2017 than Fyfe in 15 and (imo) Danger 16
 

andrew coombs

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Yeah talk about a badly used phrase.

I don't think any player - from any club - has "single handedly" won a game in years. Decades perhaps. It's more of a team game now than it ever has been.

Martin was absolutely brilliant in 2017, but he had support from an entire team that clicked at the right time. Just like Ablett did with Geelong a decade earlier (and Carey with North while we're at it). The idea of a great player carrying his side (like the Judd "shoulders are sore from carrying the team" garbage) is a total myth.

While I mostly agree that one player rarely single handedly wins a game in the AFL there have been recent occasions that come pretty close. The one that jumps out at me was the 2007 Elimination Final between Hawthorn and Adelaide. Although definitely on the rise the Hawks were still very much a work in progress, more than capable of any number of dreadful decision making errors and soul destroying turnovers. They really had no business winning that game given how often they tried to lose it but 20 year old Buddy Franklin ( first final ) was simply unstoppable. Seven goals, including the match winner from the HFF outside 50 with seconds remaining was absolutely the difference in that game. Incredible performance.
 

Partridge

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This is one of my favourite ones, so because one person (all be it a legend) made that claim it is all of a sudden true? He has an opinion he is totally entitled to but i think it was incredibly seduced by recency bias. Go to very late in that season and he was not even the definitive best player of the season. He had one of if not the most successful individual season but he was not better in 2017 than Fyfe in 15 and (imo) Danger 16
He did it with Franklin in 2008. People fell over themselves “it’s the greatest season ever played”. It wasn’t close to the best I’ve seen just from a forward (Ablett in 1993, Lockett in 1991 for starters, let alone Hudson and Pratt).

The willingness people have to switch their brains off is remarkable.

I do think Martin was the best player in 2017. But again, it’s not like great seasons from midfielders are uncommon. We get them every year now.
 

andrew coombs

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Quote Leigh Matthews, best individual season he has seen by a player Dustin Martin 2017.
But you obviously know more than Leigh Matthews.

On Redmi Note 7 using BigFooty.com mobile app
Leigh does have a tendency to make these kind of statements. He and his old coach David Parkin often appear to have memory issues when they comment on something that they have just seen. In 2008 Franklin booted 113 goals and 80 odd points and LM said he had never seen a player have a better individual season. He played with a bloke in 1971 who kicked 150. He will undoubtedly say someone else has done it it the not too distant future. Dusty may or may not have played the best individual season in 2017 but I wouldn’t use Leigh Matthews proclamation as proof of that.
 

Forward Press

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Leigh does have a tendency to make these kind of statements. He and his old coach David Parkin often appear to have memory issues when they comment on something that they have just seen. In 2008 Franklin booted 113 goals and 80 odd points and LM said he had never seen a player have a better individual season. He played with a bloke in 1971 who kicked 150. He will undoubtedly say someone else has done it it the not too distant future. Dusty may or may not have played the best individual season in 2017 but I wouldn’t use Leigh Matthews proclamation as proof of that.
A dozen Richmond posters have posted it across at least three threads on the main board front page.

Maybe it's like WC with the Robert Walls spoon comments - insert it into anything remotely relevant even though most here don't really gives two f***s about what they write or say.
 

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catscollector

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Quote Leigh Matthews, best individual season he has seen by a player Dustin Martin 2017.
But you obviously know more than Leigh Matthews.

On Redmi Note 7 using BigFooty.com mobile app

Nope, not sure I know more than Leigh but best individual season ever?

That's absurd.
It's even more absurd given how soft the current game is today.
Players like Martin, Ablett, Dangerfield, Neale, Fyfe, they get treated better by the umpires than at any stage in the games history. Taggers can't grab the jumper for a second, can't impede their run, can't even dump to the ground after the play without it going down field.
The game is all about protecting the star player.
I mean they even get the luxury of resting up one week before the finals begin!

Blokes like Pratt, Coleman, Carey, Blight, Ablett, they put up with crap and still dominated on most weeks. They also dominated for their respective State teams. At least in Ablett's case, he certainly did for Victoria.

To imply Martin's 29 disposals per game, 1.5 goals per game is the greatest individual season ever, then Patrick Dangerfield's 2017 must be the second greatest individual season ever.

Get a clue mc snooza.
 

catscollector

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Please don't use Dangerfield and Dusty in the same sentence again.
Dangerfield does not show up in finals. Dusty dominates them!!
History revisionism.
Martin's been better than most in September but in terms of dominating finals . . . he's had his fair share of sub-par performances.

Please don't try and tell me 2017 was the greatest individual performance by a player in this games history just because Leigh Matthews said it might be.
 

mc snooza

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History revisionism.
Martin's been better than most in September but in terms of dominating finals . . . he's had his fair share of sub-par performances.

Please don't try and tell me 2017 was the greatest individual performance by a player in this games history just because Leigh Matthews said it might be.
Can you name another player that has won a norm smith medal, a brownlow medal and a premiership medal in
the same year?
 
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ShiningTiger

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Martin is the best Tiger I've seen just pipping Maurice Rioli. But, Ablett Snr is the best footballer I've seen, ever and I watched a lot of Geelong games back in those days. Martin's a freak but Ablett Snr was so good it was ridiculous.
I agree, life long Tiger fan and love Dusty....but Gary Ablett Snr is without doubt the best player I have ever seen. I am 51 and I lived in Geelong for a few years( mid to late 80s), when he was at his peak and he was truly something else. Dusty matches him for ground level play, however Ablett would also stand on players heads about 3 or 4 times a game, as well kick bags of goals weekly, whether that be from the wing, centre or full forward. He was nothing short of a phenomenon and in my humble opinion, the best footballer to have played the game in my lifetime.
 
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I'm not going to compare Dusty and Danger, and I don't want to compare the absolute superstars of different eras, but I will ask this. Is it generally agreed upon that ALL the players as a whole are held to a higher standard of skill level than ALL the players of yesteryear and will continue in that fashion as each year passes.

I wasn't alive to watch Senior or Matthews or any of the legends Pre 1990, but I will say both those players are more than likely "better" than dusty, but when I watch old matches, from my perspective, modern footy has a greater showcase of skill across the board, where as it seemed more concentrated among certain players back in the day. I reckon one of the lower rated players of today would generally have better and cleaner skills than one of the lower rated players from history.

Kicking action, awareness, form, speed, endurance etc all seem silkier and more impressive from the lower players Of today than they did in old replays. I suppose it comes with the territory of becoming a more professional sport.

Senior and Matthews would rip teams apart still if they were playing today though I reckon.
 

Danger2Jenkins

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I'm not going to compare Dusty and Danger, and I don't want to compare the absolute superstars of different eras, but I will ask this. Is it generally agreed upon that ALL the players as a whole are held to a higher standard of skill level than ALL the players of yesteryear and will continue in that fashion as each year passes.

I wasn't alive to watch Senior or Matthews or any of the legends Pre 1990, but I will say both those players are more than likely "better" than dusty, but when I watch old matches, from my perspective, modern footy has a greater showcase of skill across the board, where as it seemed more concentrated among certain players back in the day. I reckon one of the lower rated players of today would generally have better and cleaner skills than one of the lower rated players from history.

Kicking action, awareness, form, speed, endurance etc all seem silkier and more impressive from the lower players Of today than they did in old replays. I suppose it comes with the territory of becoming a more professional sport.

Senior and Matthews would rip teams apart still if they were playing today though I reckon.
Danger and Dusty aren't really that compared to the greatest players from most other eras. Before either I'd pick around 10 Geelong players from our premiership sides, Judd, Buddy, N. Riewoldt, Dane Swan, Brisbane players etc. Danger can't kick or dispose the ball properly and Martin whilst clean in most aspects isn't that spectacular and has only really played at that level in 2 finals campaigns.
 
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Danger and Dusty aren't really that compared to the greatest players from most other eras. Before either I'd pick around 10 Geelong players from our premiership sides, Judd, Buddy, N. Riewoldt, Dane Swan, Brisbane players etc. Danger can't kick or dispose the ball properly and Martin whilst clean in most aspects isn't that spectacular and has only really played at that level in 2 finals campaigns.
I probably focussed on comparing them to older stars a little too much. Especially considering I said I didn't want to do that haha.

What about the question I was trying and failing to keep my focus on. Is the skill level across the board higher than it was 30/40 years ago or are you too young to have an opinion on that question?
 

mc snooza

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Nope, not sure I know more than Leigh but best individual season ever?

That's absurd.
It's even more absurd given how soft the current game is today.
Players like Martin, Ablett, Dangerfield, Neale, Fyfe, they get treated better by the umpires than at any stage in the games history. Taggers can't grab the jumper for a second, can't impede their run, can't even dump to the ground after the play without it going down field.
The game is all about protecting the star player.
I mean they even get the luxury of resting up one week before the finals begin!

Blokes like Pratt, Coleman, Carey, Blight, Ablett, they put up with crap and still dominated on most weeks. They also dominated for their respective State teams. At least in Ablett's case, he certainly did for Victoria.

To imply Martin's 29 disposals per game, 1.5 goals per game is the greatest individual season ever, then Patrick Dangerfield's 2017 must be the second greatest individual season ever.

Get a clue mc snooza.
Blah blah Coleman blah Prat blah. Yeah the game is soft try telling that to Mc Cartin, Brayshaw or Johnathon Brown.
Please don't quote Martins stats, the reason he is a champion is because he performes in pivotal moments of finals
and grand finals, did you watch the last grand final he kicked 4 goals and set up 3, hence 2 premiership medal 2 normsmith
medal, Did i mention the Brownlow??

I think your best to get your head out of your backside, grab a shandy and your hand bag sit back and admire the rest
of Dustin Martins 5 or 6 year remaining career, because both you and i are witnessing a very special player.

Big apology to all other Geelong supporters, i don't mean to disrespect to Paddy Dangerfield in any way, I think he is a
phenominal player/athlete, he explosive strong overhead awesome up forward kicks bags. I happily pay admission to
watch Danger do his thing.
 

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