WCE peak Judd was better than peak GAJ and peak Dustin Martin

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Gary Ablett Jnr is the best player I've ever seen. 2014 he was singlehandedly going to put Gold Coast in the finals and opposition could do nothing to him, then literally everyone knew their chances were shut after his shoulder injury.

Avg 32.1 disposals, 1.6 goals, 6.1 tackles, that includes the game where he got injured just after half time.

28 Brownlow votes in 15 games

Gary was unbelievable that season.

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

Gaj along with his old man are the 2 best players I've ever seen.

 

[Lingsface]

What’s it like basing your opinions in life from BF polls? You’ve cited this one 3 times now, how embarrassing


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

It’s the whole basis of this thread …

 

[refresh]

Depends whether you rate peak over longevity.

 

[AnEmptyChair]

Gaj along with his old man are the 2 best players I've ever seen.

then i'm guessing you just don't watch much footy then. GAJ maybe just scrapes in as a top 5 player post-2000. he's nowhere near it all time.

truthfully, this thread shouldn't even be controversial. it's just fact. Judd was a far better player at his best and overall i'd still have him ahead.

there's also the leadership aspect of it too. GAJ is unequivocally one of the most selfish players and terrible leaders of all time. like, imagine actually refusing to travel with your team for away games. the bloke is an absolute coward.

and frankly it's not surprising when you see how the whole family are consistently utter scumbags. the fact we celebrate his father is a seriously a disgrace to the sport (and yes, before anyone says anything, the same applies to Carey)

 

[Fadge]

then i'm guessing you just don't watch much footy then. GAJ maybe just scrapes in as a top 5 player post-2000. he's nowhere near it all time.

truthfully, this thread shouldn't even be controversial. it's just fact. Judd was a far better player at his best and overall i'd still have him ahead.

there's also the leadership aspect of it too. GAJ is unequivocally one of the most selfish players and terrible leaders of all time. like, imagine actually refusing to travel with your team for away games. the bloke is an absolute coward.

and frankly it's not surprising when you see how the whole family are consistently utter scumbags. the fact we celebrate his father is a seriously a disgrace to the sport (and yes, before anyone says anything, the same applies to Carey)

Who are the four better players than GAJ post 2000?

Talk to me more about the Leadership skills of Judd, if that is a differentiator between him and GAJ?

 

[AnEmptyChair]

Who are the four better players than GAJ post 2000?

Talk to me more about the Leadership skills of Judd, if that is a differentiator between him and GAJ?

lol when did Judd ever be a massive whinging coward and refuse to travel to away games as captain of the team? Judd carried a s**t carlton team to the finals and won an elimination final off his own boot. GAJ refused to play for a s**t GC. their leadership was on completely different levels.

it's arguable that one of the biggest reasons GC was a basketcase for years is because of his awful leadership and his active participation in splitting the player base in two along religious lines.

as for players better than him, Judd and Riewoldt definitely, there shouldn't even be an argument there, and there's a case for Martin because of his consistently excellent performances in big games. He's then in that next group with Voss, Mitchell, Brown, Buckley, Hird, Pavlich etc - and i refuse to hear any argument against Sam Mitchell in that group; he's single most underrated player this century.

I've literally never seen anyone be so petulant and selfish too, which also comes into it beyond his ability. I'll never forget the filthy and covetous look on his face when Bartel won the brownlow, for example.

edit: also, he's responsible for this modern obsession with quantity over quality when it comes to statistics. i remember a game in a final against the pies where he had like 10 or 11 possessions in the first quarter, but 3 of them were turnovers that led directly to goals and the others were cheap handballs around the back of the man on the mark in the back half that then went nowhere, yet all the commentators were saying at half time were, 'geez look at the possession count'

when you think about it, the only difference between GAJ and, say, Tom Mitchell is that GAJ was a genuinely elite forward. In fact, he played his best footy as a forward

 

[Fadge]

lol when did Judd ever be a massive whinging coward and refuse to travel to away games as captain of the team? Judd carried a s**t carlton team to the finals and won an elimination final off his own boot. GAJ refused to play for a s**t GC. their leadership was on completely different levels.

it's arguable that one of the biggest reasons GC was a basketcase for years is because of his awful leadership and his active participation in splitting the player base in two along religious lines.

as for players better than him, Judd and Riewoldt definitely, there shouldn't even be an argument there, and there's a case for Martin because of his consistently excellent performances in big games. He's then in that next group with Voss, Mitchell, Brown, Buckley, Hird, Pavlich etc - and i refuse to hear any argument against Sam Mitchell in that group; he's single most underrated player this century.

I've literally never seen anyone be so petulant and selfish too, which also comes into it beyond his ability. I'll never forget the filthy and covetous look on his face when Bartel won the brownlow, for example.

You actually neglected to mention the ONLY player who would be in the conversation with GAJ as the best this century - Buddy Franklin.

Let me guess, you don't rate Buddy either?

 

[AnEmptyChair]

You actually neglected to mention the ONLY player who would be in the conversation with GAJ as the best this century - Buddy Franklin.

Let me guess, you don't rate Buddy either?

lol no, that's just a ridiculous oversight from me. Franklin's actually the best and just slipped my mind. post-2000: Buddy, Judd, Riewoldt, probably Martin and then throw a blanket over GAJ and the rest i mentioned

 

[Loz89]

It’s good to see people haven’t forgotten how good Judd was. His West coast peak was better than player I’ve ever seen. It’s fair to say you’d take GAJ’s career over Judd’s but both at their best, Judd definitely wins. They’re the 2 best for me, It’s subjective obviously, but I think peak Martin Danger Matera Buddy Aker, (Petracca looks like he’s heading that way too) pretty amazing too in terms of explosive freaks, as much as I hate Danger. Players like McLeod Cousins Bont and Pendles just ooze class and pretty special although cousins and McLeod also had that ability to tear apart a game also. Take your pick really

 

[Foxx]

No way you could realistically choose Martin over the other two. Given he only played in the forward half of the ground.

 

[Gameova_]

West Coast Chris Judd wasn’t even the best midfielder in his team, Ben Cousins was a far better footballer than Judd during the Eagles years.

Kerr as well.

 

[estibador]

Kerr as well.

Yeah nah.

There's a fair argument to be had for Cousins being better than Judd, but no way Kerr was.

Kerr benefitted massively from playing alongside those two. He was a very good player, but the sort of good player who wouldn't have looked as good if he had to carry a midfield on his own.

 

[Rustin Cohle]

Ablett by the length of the Flemington straight. Best midfielder to have ever played the game.

 

[Scotland]

Yeah nah.

There's a fair argument to be had for Cousins being better than Judd, but no way Kerr was.

Kerr benefitted massively from playing alongside those two. He was a very good player, but the sort of good player who wouldn't have looked as good if he had to carry a midfield on his own.

All guns, but neither Kerr or Cousins were ever really considered the best player in the comp.

Cousins was a 6 time All Australian and in 2005 won the Brownlow and Leigh Matthews Trophy, but I don't remember him getting the same level of hyerpbole as Judd, Ablett or Martin.

Ridiculous state of affairs when Kerr is roundly regarded as your 3rd best mid. Didn't have a flashy outside game but was a beast at clearances and could run all day. Not surprised he retired at 30. Was only 5'10'' 80kg and threw himself at the contest at 100 miles an hour. Hopefully people remember how good a player he was and not just that he's a massive dickhead. And Sam's brother.

 

[2006_Eagles]

All guns, but neither Kerr or Cousins were ever really considered the best player in the comp.

Cousins was a 6 time All Australian and in 2005 won the Brownlow and Leigh Matthews Trophy, but I don't remember him getting the same level of hyerpbole as Judd, Ablett or Martin.

Ridiculous state of affairs when Kerr is roundly regarded as your 3rd best mid. Didn't have a flashy outside game but was a beast at clearances and could run all day. Not surprised he retired at 30. Was only 5'10'' 80kg and threw himself at the contest at 100 miles an hour. Hopefully people remember how good a player he was and not just that he's a massive dickhead. And Sam's brother.

I would have thought Cuz was considered the best in the comp at least at some stage

 

[beerbandit]

Ablett Jnr is the best player I’ve seen

 

[2006_Eagles]

GAJ and Judd are the clear two best mids of the 2000s

Dusty not too far behind. Not the longevity, but always stood up when it counted

 

[BigPond101]

then i'm guessing you just don't watch much footy then. GAJ maybe just scrapes in as a top 5 player post-2000. he's nowhere near it all time.

truthfully, this thread shouldn't even be controversial. it's just fact. Judd was a far better player at his best and overall i'd still have him ahead.

there's also the leadership aspect of it too. GAJ is unequivocally one of the most selfish players and terrible leaders of all time. like, imagine actually refusing to travel with your team for away games. the bloke is an absolute coward.

and frankly it's not surprising when you see how the whole family are consistently utter scumbags. the fact we celebrate his father is a seriously a disgrace to the sport (and yes, before anyone says anything, the same applies to Carey)

Calling him a coward is a bit much but you are right GAJ was really just a huge stat collector. He's the final form of someone like Tom Mitchell from the hawks or that short dude with the helmet who plays for the Bulldogs

Judd at WCE was a whole other category of player in the Wayne Carey matchwinner style

 

[beerbandit]

Calling him a coward is a bit much but you are right GAJ was really just a huge stat collector. He's the final form of someone like Tom Mitchell from the hawks or that short dude with the helmet who plays for the Bulldogs

Judd at WCE was a whole other category of player in the Wayne Carey matchwinner style

Really? Your kidding right, Judd had great burst speed from packs, but he couldn’t hit the side of a barn, I’ll argue with anyone but he simply was a horrible kick, how can he be the greatest when the main skill in the game he was average at. Abletts kicking was elite! The bloke racked up 40 for fun whilst kicking 3 or 4 goals, he should of won probably 4 brownlows, the bloke would of won 4 or 5 flags had he not taken the coin and ran up to GC. 5 MVPs , the little master is soooooo underrated it’s not even funny.

The love for Judd is warranted, he’s breakaway speed from a clearance was breathtaking and something else, but Judd also isn’t better then Dusty.

Dusty didn’t have the support in the middle with great players around him like Judd and Ablett, Richmonds success was built on surge and territory. But boy when the game needed to be won did Dusty stand up, the bloke was/is a genuine match winner. 3 Flags and 3 Normies epitomises that.

I’ve been watching football religiously since the mid 80s so I’ve seen every bit of these blokes careers so like most on here am qualified to have a say.

Out of these 3

1 - Jnr
2 - Dusty
3 - Judd.

 

[Themanbun]

Lmao GAJ was untackleable at his best. People seriously underrated him just because of his freakish numbers.

 

[PhatBoy]

Calling him a coward is a bit much but you are right GAJ was really just a huge stat collector. He's the final form of someone like Tom Mitchell from the hawks or that short dude with the helmet who plays for the Bulldogs

Judd at WCE was a whole other category of player in the Wayne Carey matchwinner style

Yeah I can think of heaps of players ranked #1 for all time contested possessions, who have had a season where they’ve averaged 31 touches, 17 contested, 1.6 goals, 1.3 goal assists, 6 tackles and 8 clearances in side that had only existed for 3 years.

And all those players were just stat padders.

 

[evo]

Really? Your kidding right, Judd had great burst speed from packs, but he couldn’t hit the side of a barn, I’ll argue with anyone but he simply was a horrible kick, how can he be the greatest when the main skill in the game he was average at. Abletts kicking was elite! The bloke racked up 40 for fun whilst kicking 3 or 4 goals, he should of won probably 4 brownlows, the bloke would of won 4 or 5 flags had he not taken the coin and ran up to GC. 5 MVPs , the little master is soooooo underrated it’s not even funny.

The love for Judd is warranted, he’s breakaway speed from a clearance was breathtaking and something else, but Judd also isn’t better then Dusty.

Dusty didn’t have the support in the middle with great players around him like Judd and Ablett, Richmonds success was built on surge and territory. But boy when the game needed to be won did Dusty stand up, the bloke was/is a genuine match winner. 3 Flags and 3 Normies epitomises that.

I’ve been watching football religiously since the mid 80s so I’ve seen every bit of these blokes careers so like most on here am qualified to have a say.

Out of these 3

1 - Jnr
2 - Dusty
3 - Judd.

This is a good assessment.

Junior has the edge over Dusty for doing it more consistently for longer.

Incedentally, I've been watching footy consistently since the mid 70s, and Senior is the best player I ve seen. Bigfooty Tiger cast has had Phil Egan and Michael Mitchell on lately who both played on/against him and both said he is the GOAT.

 

[blaisee]

The only player I have seen in the last 40 years that can hold a candle to Dustin Martin was Gary Ablett Senior

And even he was not better than Dusty

When big game was there to be one, no one in history got it done better than Martin.

Will go down as the greatest players of all time.

GAJ is massively overrated, Judd was better.

The difference with Martin is his kicking, makes his 25 possessions worth GAJ 45.

 

[PhatBoy]

The only player I have seen in the last 40 years that can hold a candle to Dustin Martin was Gary Ablett Senior

And even he was not better than Dusty

When big game was there to be one, no one in history got it done better than Martin.

Will go down as the greatest players of all time.

GAJ is massively overrated, Judd was better.

The difference with Martin is his kicking, makes his 25 possessions worth GAJ 45.

Yes with his double amount of clangers, less goals per game, same amount of kicks per game from the time GAJ moved into the midfield, less tackles, less goal assists, less congested possessions, less clearances, I can see how you’d come to that conclusion.