First 22 in 2023

[crows dude]

Wow has Lyons dropped that much. Had a really good year last year and most seem to not have him in the 22. Im a huge fan and i wish we still had him

 

[Nathan Barley]

Wow has Lyons dropped that much. Had a really good year last year and most seem to not have him in the 22. Im a huge fan and i wish we still had him

Did not have a really good year last year

Replaced with Dunkley

 

[Tom14]

Couple of quick ones, trying to understand 22s better

If no Zorko or Berry, is Lyons any chance or do they need more injuries then that? Heard he was clear BOG in the 2nds on the weekend

Why is Answerth emg/on the outer? Thought he wouldve been ahead of guys like Willmot/Prior for wing. Has he just had an ordinary PS?

Lyons can't play anywere other than inside mid - if either Dunkley or Neale miss games, he's an easy inclusion. Berry/Zorko tend to be more outside options.

Answerth's come back from injury only recently, and in my opinion has some limitations compared to Wimot/Prior who are better users of the footy.

 

[Keystone agony]

Lyons can't play anywere other than inside mid - if either Dunkley or Neale miss games, he's an easy inclusion. Berry/Zorko tend to be more outside options.

Answerth's come back from injury only recently, and in my opinion has some limitations compared to Wimot/Prior who are better users of the footy.

Usually 4 inside mids required per team.

From what i see would mean a Robertson playing off a wing or high half fwd instead

 

[Tom14]

Usually 4 inside mids required per team.

From what i see would mean a Robertson playing off a wing or high half fwd instead

McCluggage and Ashcroft will play a lot of minutes inside - those are the clear top 4 inside mids. Bailey, Zorko, Berry etc also rotate through there. Do not have a spot for Lyons to play say 30% minutes in the middle and 30% on the bench as he can't really play other roles.

 

[Section 5]

Couple of quick ones, trying to understand 22s better

If no Zorko or Berry, is Lyons any chance or do they need more injuries then that? Heard he was clear BOG in the 2nds on the weekend

Why is Answerth emg/on the outer? Thought he wouldve been ahead of guys like Willmot/Prior for wing. Has he just had an ordinary PS?

Wow has Lyons dropped that much. Had a really good year last year and most seem to not have him in the 22. Im a huge fan and i wish we still had him

I have Lyons in my starting 22 round 1, but i am in the very small minority on the BF Lions board

Lyons played quite well up to when he was injured in round 15.
The issue with him was Fagan continued to play him for another 8 rounds when clearly hampered with an OP injury suffered in round 15.
Amazingly he still averaged 20 disposals, 4.4 marks & 4.5 tackles over this period even though he could only manage a fast jog towards the end.
I think people forget how good he is and instead look at his deficiencies that all players have.

Answerth had shoulder surgery in the off season and his recent VFL trial game was his first full contact game to date.
He played well and no report of any shoulder issues.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Usually 4 inside mids required per team.

From what i see would mean a Robertson playing off a wing or high half fwd instead

Neale, Dunkley, McCluggage and Ashcroft

 

[crows dude]

Lyons can't play anywere other than inside mid - if either Dunkley or Neale miss games, he's an easy inclusion. Berry/Zorko tend to be more outside options.

Answerth's come back from injury only recently, and in my opinion has some limitations compared to Wimot/Prior who are better users of the footy.

Hes quite capable rotating at half forward and inside mid.

 

[Keystone agony]

Neale, Dunkley, McCluggage and Ashcroft

Certainly Mcluggage and Ashcroft can play elsewhere

No doubt the question at some point could be do we get more from Lyons onball, With Hugh half wing and half onball vs say an Answerth/Willmot/Prior on a wing and Hugh onball

Majority clearly against playing him here unless Dunks or Neale are out which is fair to. Just seeing if there is a world that he plays whilst there still in the side

If it was me coaching id have a good look at a 60% TOG role (Subbed earlier if no injuries), purely onball with the other 240% going to Neale 75, Dunks 70, Hugh 45, Ashcroft 50%

and the concern of Dunks, Lyons, Neale all at CBA (the most open play on field) is slow and that would be a part of the reasoning along with a few other factors but i feel as long as one of an Ashcroft, Hugh are atleast in there then it could potentially work

 

[Nathan Barley]

Certainly Mcluggage and Ashcroft can play elsewhere

No doubt the question at some point could be do we get more from Lyons onball, With Hugh half wing and half onball vs say an Answerth/Willmot/Prior on a wing and Hugh onball

Majority clearly again playing him here unless Dunks or Neale are out which is fair to. Just seeing if there is a world that he plays whilst there still in the side

If it was me coaching id have a good look at a 60% TOG role (Subbed earlier if no injuries), purely onball with the other 240% going to Neale 75, Dunks 70, Hugh 45, Ashcroft 50%

and the concern of Dunks, Lyons, Neale all at CBA (the most open play on field) is slow and that would be a part of the reasoning along with a few other factors but i feel as long as one of an Ashcroft, Hugh are atleast in their then it could possibly work

We want Clug getting as much of the footy as possible. That happens playing on ball as opposed to wing or half forward

 

[Dalions]

We want Clug getting as much of the footy as possible. That happens playing on ball as opposed to wing or half forward

Yep, best user of the ball in the team, need the ball in his hands as much as possible.

 

[M Malice]

Yep, best user of the ball in the team, need the ball in his hands as much as possible.

Kiddy would give him a run for his money.... can not have too many good users of the footy.

 

[Tom14]

Hes quite capable rotating at half forward and inside mid.

He's capable but there are far better options as half forwards who can rotate in. I'm a big fan of JL in terms of what he did for us, but his physical limitations were on show last year (and he was hampered by injury). He probably needs at least 4-6 games of VFL to make up for the pre-season he missed.

 

[Sanchez365]

I don't have the stats to back this up, but I feel like Lyons in particular at the CBA was where we performed the worst. We already have an inside extractor in Neale, and Lyons was too slow to cover defensively or be an aggressive option going forward.

He was still good at the around the ground clearances, but with the addition of Dunkley who is more multifaceted, I don't think he is as required at the moment.

It will depend on how he bounces back from his injury though and might prove his doubters (me) wrong. Happy if he does!

 

[3KZ is Football]

Provided Froggy's fit, I'd have him in the team every day of the week over Joyce. I'm an unabashed Froggy fan tho

I think you are a great judge of football talent.

 

[twhowler]

He's capable but there are far better options as half forwards who can rotate in. I'm a big fan of JL in terms of what he did for us, but his physical limitations were on show last year (and he was hampered by injury). He probably needs at least 4-6 games of VFL to make up for the pre-season he missed.

The last part is particularly important. And if i were Lyons i would want to come in totally fit and ready to stake my place. If he comes in injury free but without peak fitness he could have his papers stamped effectively. So get super fit and try to bang down the door. And at worst be the automatic inclusion if Neale or Dunkley are injured. He would probably be Ashcroft / Clugga's replacement too if back to his best.

 

[Section 5]

Heat map for season 2022 from dfsaustralia for Lyons & Dunkley
Heat maps are about possessions in that area, not time spent in the area
Like all stats it is a very good indicator, but does not always tell the total story.

The knock on Lyons is he does not get back in defense enough as in he is not a two way running mid.
Reminder Lyons was carrying a OP injury from R 15 on.
Comparing both, their is not much difference in the def (green) & def/mid (blue) charts.
To be fair to Dunkley he is played forward a bit more by design at the Dogs. Also he is their current B & F winner.
Neale's chart (not included) has more def % than both. Neale is a Brownlow medalist (should be a dual medalist).
Looks like you need to get to 20% + to have a number attached to a color
Dev's chart also below for those interested.

 

[KissKiss]

There has never been a doubt on Lyons balling winning ability. Its about what happens once the ball was lost. He was never quick but once the injury kicked in he became a big liability in a team that wasnt great at running defensively.

With Dunkley and Ashcroft entering the team its just really hard to justify him on team balance. And then have guys like Dev Robertson screaming out for opportunity. But most assume if he is fit, he would be one of the first replacements if one of the inside mids got injured.

 

[On the quiet]

Wow has Lyons dropped that much. Had a really good year last year and most seem to not have him in the 22. Im a huge fan and i wish we still had him

whether it was his groin last year, but too slow and could not or cannot kick a ball beyond 40 meters

 

[On the quiet]

I think you are a great judge of football talent.

Usually I opt for the development approach when 50/50 decision, but I actually think I would have 150+ games Froggy ahead of 12+ games Joyce.

 

[HereIGoAgain]

I'm reluctant to downgrade the importance of players like Lyons, Zorko, Rich, Lester, Gardner yet. Doesnt take too much to go wrong for us to have to fall back on them especially at the business end of the season. Would be good to see this cohort get treated with a bit more care this year even if we are transitioning past some of them.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Usually I opt for the development approach when 50/50 decision, but I actually think I would have 150+ games Froggy ahead of 12+ games Joyce.

Pure genius!

 

[DERRINALPHIL]

Did not have a really good year last year

Replaced with Dunkley

But if he gets over his groin problems and returns to the form of the two previous years we have a midfield that rocks

 

[DERRINALPHIL]

I think you are a great judge of football talent.

I used to umpire cricket matches and I always knew the season was well under way when a deep fielder had come off the boundary, gradually crept in against his captains instructions, and a catch dropped over his head.

Then a batsman run out because he didn't ground his bat.

We on this lions thread its footy season when 3KZ starts his Froggy posts

 

[Scubaveg]

Hearing Willmot no certainty for round 1.


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