First side to 17 premierships?

[Monkey King]

I have no issue with any of this ... there is an official term used by the AFL to refer to this combined record, namely "VFL/AFL", which means literally "VFL or AFL".

That’s just a poor understanding of punctuation. The slash can represent several things. You do touch on its use here though, which is to combine two expressions that are representative of one thing i.e. kitchen/dining room. This is not referring to two different rooms, one or the other, but to one room with two descriptions. Similarly with VFL/AFL premierships, they are not referring two different kinds of premierships, but one premiership prize, offered by one league, under different names. It’s a bit like referring to Brian Harris/Lake’s playing record.

Interesting to know though that you don’t have a issue with Norwood having only won 13 SANFL flags.

 

[SgtSchulz]

In the end of the day VFL premierships are only relevant within Victoria as a historical comparison between clubs in the former suburban amateur/semi-pro competition. Carlton and Essendon are the most successful taking this view.

In regards to the national stage and comparisons between clubs on that level people use AFL premierships. Hawthorn, West Coast, Brisbane and Geelong are the most successful taking this perspective.

My question is why Victorians don't use VFA premierships in comparisons when only the weakest clubs of the time were booted in 1897? Carlton and Geelong are the most successful Victorian clubs when you take this view.

 

[Monkey King]

In the end of the day VFL premierships are only relevant within Victoria ...

My question is why Victorians don't use VFA premierships in comparisons when only the weakest clubs of the time were booted in 1897? Carlton and Geelong are the most successful Victorian clubs when you take this view.

The records of this league are relevant to this league, as pertaining to premierships, Brownlow medals etc. Which addresses both points. No one was booted from anything. A number of clubs quit the VFA and established a new league, which is the league your club plays in today. The VFA continued as its own entity and the premierships won in that league are no more relevant to this competition’s records than say those of the Bendigo Football League.

 

[footyfan1978]

My question is why Victorians don't use VFA premierships in comparisons when only the weakest clubs of the time were booted in 1897? Carlton and Geelong are the most successful Victorian clubs when you take this view.

You got it so wrong. Those clubs left the VFA to form their own breakaway league. No one got booted....
Those that did not goto the new league formed in 1897, like Port Melbourne, continued in the VFA.

Clubs do count their VFA premierships but when we are talking about the history of this league that been running every year since 1897, we are counting the premierships won in this league that will be starting season 122 in a few months. That context is clear for those that been following this league as little kids. For general comparisons we count how we going against each other in the league we playing in and back to when it began. The OP made the context of that obvious from the start.

 

[terrybull]

Why do people keep on with this inaccurate whinging? Premierships from 1877-1906 SAFA and 1907-1927 SAFL can not be counted as SANFL premierships, but they can be counted as SAFL/SAFA/SANFL premierships.

and this what people say in South Australia? " My club has won x many SAFL/SAFA/SANFL Premierships"
They don't just say SANFL Premierships?

Seriously! I understand where you getting at, but you must be a bore at parties when premiership discussions come up...

 

[ok.crows]

That’s just a poor understanding of punctuation. The slash can represent several things. You do touch on its use here though, which is to combine two expressions that are representative of one thing i.e. kitchen/dining room. This is not referring to two different rooms, one or the other, but to one room with two descriptions. Similarly with VFL/AFL premierships, they are not referring two different kinds of premierships, but one premiership prize, offered by one league, under different names.

Nah. The term "VFL/AFL" is used by the AFL when referring to historical statistics which cover both the VFL and AFL eras, such as Michael Tuck's games record. When they are talking about just the league at the moment, or when a set of statistics is drawn just from the AFL era, they use the term "AFL" on its own.

Example:
Michael Tuck will be sad to see Brent Harvey break his record for most appearances in the AFL

When they talk about Harvey's games they use the term AFL. It is only when they talk about Tuck's games that the term "VFL/AFL" is introduced.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Its OK by me, but the official term used by the AFL when referring to the combined records is "AFL/VFL". This term means "AFL or VFL". So you could say that "Collingwood has 15 AFL/VFL premierships", just as the AFL itself does. Nothing really wrong with that I suppose, it is historically accurate, although it does leave out the detail information of how many were VFL premierships and how many were AFL premierships.

By and large, the TV tells me how many premierships a team has, rarely if ever is it pre fixed with an "AFL or VFL". When I speak to my work mates they reminisce about their wc premierships but never mention them as an "AFL" premiership. In fact I'd argue HQ themselves don't prefix premierships with a "VFL" or "AFL", TBH I can't remember the last time anyone from HQ verbally stated one or the other, if at all.

Clutching at straws mate

 

[ok.crows]

By and large, the TV tells me how many premierships a team has, rarely if ever is it pre fixed with an "AFL or VFL". When I speak to my work mates they reminisce about their wc premierships but never mention them as an "AFL" premiership. In fact I'd argue HQ themselves don't prefix premierships with a "VFL" or "AFL"

This is just being lazy. The official term for records which span both the VFL era and the AFL era, such as Michael Tuck's games tally, is "VFL/AFL".

Michael Tuck (born 24 June 1953) is a seven-time premiership-winning player, Australian rules footballer with the Hawthorn Football Club in the Victorian Football League (VFL) / Australian Football League (AFL), where he was the games record holder (426 games) until 30 July 2016 when Brent Harvey played his 427th game for North Melbourne Football Club.​

 

[Monkey King]

Nah. The term "VFL/AFL" is used by the AFL when referring to historical statistics which cover both the VFL and AFL eras, such as Michael Tuck's games record. When they are talking about just the league at the moment, or when a set of statistics is drawn just from the AFL era, they use the term "AFL" on its own.

You just made a basic error with your understanding of punctuation. And yes, if you’re cooking, you might say you’re in the kitchen, if you’re at the dining table, you might say you’re in the dining room; or you may refer to being in the kitchen/dining area the whole time. This is exactly how it applies to VFL/AFL. You’ve erred in thinking the slash was a dividing “or” between two seperate things. It’s plain as day too when looking at how the league presents itself, it’s history and it’s official records, such as Jason Dunstall’s 17 goals kicked in 1992 being on the Most Goals in a VFL/AFL match list.

 

[SgtSchulz]

But yeah the answer to this thread is Norwood in 1925.

 

[Monkey King]

But yeah the answer to this thread is Norwood in 1925.

A quick check of which sub-forum we’re in shows that this is not the answer. I don’t believe Norwood ever played in this league, which is a real pity and hopefully one the future rectifies.

 

[SgtSchulz]

A quick check of which sub-forum we’re in shows that this is not the answer. I don’t believe Norwood ever played in this league, which is a real pity and hopefully one the future rectifies.

Nah * em

 

[Crankyhawk]

Not ******* me that's for sure.

sigh

Could be worse. Carlton could've won one and Essendon none..

 

[Crankyhawk]

Hate to break it to you mate but:

Name: AUSTRALIAN FOOTBALL LEAGUE
ACN: 004 155 211
Previous state number: C0014601P
Previous state of registration: Victoria
Registration date: 18/06/1929
Next review date: 18/06/2018
Former name(s): VICTORIAN FOOTBALL LEAGUE <-------------------------

It's the same league. The Australian Football Leauge (Formerly Victorian Football Leauge) has been registered 60 years before it became the AFL.

So only flags from 1929 onward then

 

[gangsta deluxe]

So only flags from 1929 onward then

Suits us and North just fine.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

You just made a basic error with your understanding of punctuation. And yes, if you’re cooking, you might say you’re in the kitchen, if you’re at the dining table, you might say you’re in the dining room; or you may refer to being in the kitchen/dining area the whole time. This is exactly how it applies to VFL/AFL. You’ve erred in thinking the slash was a dividing “or” between two seperate things. It’s plain as day too when looking at how the league presents itself, it’s history and it’s official records, such as Jason Dunstall’s 17 goals kicked in 1992 being on the Most Goals in a VFL/AFL match list.

As the years go by the VFL/AFL thing will disappear I think. It is all one continuous comp as you say and no new League was ever started.
I guess some interstate supporters refer to it more for what the flags represent, up to 1986 winning the VFL flag described your team as the best side in the state of Victoria only.
And while any sensible person acknowledges that the VFL was the biggest of the three major state leagues in Australia winning the VFL still did not mean you were the best side in Australia.
Winning the AFL there is no doubt you are crowned the best side in Australia.
A state league morphed into the national league as we now know it. Actually a great pity that over the years the three state league champions didn’t play off more often, I suspect the VFL side would of won most though. But who actually knows.
As for this debate it is one continuous comp and all flags count in the tally in this comp.

 

[LeverPuller]

Melbourne, the 1950s are back baby

 

[Monkey King]

Actually a great pity that over the years the three state league champions didn’t play off more often ...

Agreed. It’s a pity the Champions of Australia trophy wasn’t taken seriously as the pinnacle of the sport, rather than a post-season practice match romp. I guess State of Origin “best of the best” games played their part in this.

It makes you wonder, should a club based Champions of Australia have been a serious event on the footy calander, what influence that would have had on how the National comp evolved. Perhaps it wouldn’t have just been a VFL expansion, or even if so, at least existing clubs from the SANFL and WAFL may have been invited to join ala Port, rather than the state representative teams of the Crows and Eagles. Would’ve made for a richer comp IMO.

 

[ok.crows]

You just made a basic error with your understanding of punctuation. And yes, if you’re cooking, you might say you’re in the kitchen, if you’re at the dining table, you might say you’re in the dining room; or you may refer to being in the kitchen/dining area the whole time. This is exactly how it applies to VFL/AFL. You’ve erred in thinking the slash was a dividing “or” between two seperate things. It’s plain as day too when looking at how the league presents itself, it’s history and it’s official records, such as Jason Dunstall’s 17 goals kicked in 1992 being on the Most Goals in a VFL/AFL match list.

The official term for records which span both the VFL era and the AFL era, such as Michael Tuck's games tally, is "VFL/AFL".

Michael Tuck (born 24 June 1953) is a seven-time premiership-winning player, Australian rules footballer with the Hawthorn Football Club in the Victorian Football League (VFL) / Australian Football League (AFL), where he was the games record holder (426 games) until 30 July 2016 when Brent Harvey played his 427th game for North Melbourne Football Club.​

Jason Dunstall also played in both VFL games and AFL games.

Having said that, I suppose the term VFL/AFL is also used when a record from an AFL game is the best result from the span of all VFL and AFL games.

 

[Carringbush2010]

This is just being lazy. The official term for records which span both the VFL era and the AFL era, such as Michael Tuck's games tally, is "VFL/AFL".

Michael Tuck (born 24 June 1953) is a seven-time premiership-winning player, Australian rules footballer with the Hawthorn Football Club in the Victorian Football League (VFL) / Australian Football League (AFL), where he was the games record holder (426 games) until 30 July 2016 when Brent Harvey played his 427th game for North Melbourne Football Club.​

I think misread my post, when HQ discusses a clubs premierships it mentions the amount - rarely if ever are they pre fixed with the league name in front of it. You could say the same for commentators and journalists, if ever it is pre fixed then that would be an exception to the rule.

I know when I discuss premiership numbers with others, only the number comes up in conversation. Very rarely do people mention the league name as a prefix

 

[JVseven]

Richmond.

 

[luciien]

Hawthorn are due another 80's like era.

 

[tigs2010]

Hawks are a bit further back but from your list I'll chose them (inb4 Dons 'fairytale after the saga flag' gifted by the AFL like Dogs and Tigers flags)

Good to see youve recovered since September 8 lol

 

[Monkey King]

Having said that, I suppose the term VFL/AFL is also used when a record from an AFL game is the best result from the span of all VFL and AFL games.

That’s right. Which is why you see players who debuted post-1990 on the VFL/AFL game’s record list. These are the official records of the league. It’s not VFL or AFL. The slash is used in reference to one thing, in this case games played in the one league. It’s the same with premierships, Brownlow Medals, Coleman Medals etc.

 

[ok.crows]

It’s not VFL or AFL.

Oh yes it is. The games form which the statistics come were either VFL games or AFL games. This is a straightforward fact, and what is more, the conjunction "or" is exactly what the slash means.

Wikipedia says: Once used to mark periods and commas, the slash is now most often used to represent exclusive or inclusive or, division and fractions, and as a date separator.

The slash is commonly used in many languages as a shorter substitute for the conjunction "or", typically with the sense of exclusive or (e.g., Y/N permits yes or no but not both).​