Opinion Hamish Hartlett - What now?

[EskimoPAFC]

For all the HH haters who do you bring in?
Riley Bonner? no doubt you are the same people who have spent the last 4 years calling for his head.
Hamish is not in career best form but who is, other than Ollie?
I think my biggest positive is we have alot of improvement left in us, and at 5-2 we are in a great position to build big momentum.
HH has plenty of credits.

Bonner is miles ahead of HH right now.

People fairly called for Riley to be dropped when he was performing poorly in previous seasons (particularly pre-2020), but his form in the end of last season, pre-season and first two games this year have shown he could be a serious weapon. That's the great thing about football, you're never in or out of it, if you grab your opportunities you should play, no matter who you are or where you've come from, be that pick 4 or the rookie list.

Also Lienert, McKenzie and arguably Garner I'd rather see in the side than HH right now. I'd also love to see if we could shuffle some things around and get in someone like Hayes (defensive lines of TJ, Frederick, Bergman, Burton if fit, DBJ, Cluz and AA) but that could be trickier.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

If you want to know why Hartlett is how he is, I give you an excerpt from his interview on the AFL website:

"To be here eight or nine years later and being a really successful football club – both on field and off field – nowadays is something I'm very, very proud of. Having been a part of that journey all the way through is something I reflect on pretty frequently.

"I'm just super happy to be a part of this football club now which is genuinely contending for a premiership, whereas eight or nine years ago we couldn't have been any further off the pace."

What success, Hamish?

Happy to be part of a club which took 9 years to get to the point where we lose a preliminary final, holy s**t those are Gold Coast level low standards. Actually they aren't - even Ablett talked about winning flags when he was Gold Coast captain.

 

[Stryke]

' "I reflect on my career a bit and I have never turned into the player I expected I might or that people externally thought I might become, but I've come to terms with being a solid player," he said. '

 

[TeeKray]

If you actually watch the interview rather than just read the words, you'll see that those comments were made in a very depressed sort of tone and it's not at all something he's happy with.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

Sure, but calling a club that's won one flag since 2000 and nothing in the past 16 years "successful" is quite the reach.

Historically the most successful club in Australia. This century almost as mediocre as joke clubs like the cows.

 

[Tibbs]

Hey, I reckon HH needs dropping to the Pies, but by God there are some ugly comments here! Watch the video at least & have some empathy!

As for success ... Success is a very general word, and is measured in different ways. Hence the use of the term "ultimate success" to refer to a premiership. Comparing us now to the Port of 2010-2012, of course we are a much more successful club .... We are miles ahead of the Crows - We have high membership, we are winning Showdowns, drawing large crowds, attracting big sponsors, have forged that path to China, and are a club that other teams try to emulate and the public enjoy watching.

He does have a lot to be proud of in being part of the group that led us out of the sewer we were in back then ... Will he be part of any 'ultimate success' if we get to the big dance? I really dont think so, not unless he can regain form.

 

[PJ Power]

If you actually watch the interview rather than just read the words, you'll see that those comments were made in a very depressed sort of tone and it's not at all something he's happy with.

Yeah, fair enough. When I posted earlier I had not seen the video - I think it was only posted on the club website later this morning. He certainly sounds like he has regrets in not becoming the player he was projected to be.

 

[P4Life]

Hey, I reckon HH needs dropping to the Pies, but by God there are some ugly comments here! Watch the video at least & have some empathy!

As for success ... Success is a very general word, and is measured in different ways. Hence the use of the term "ultimate success" to refer to a premiership. Comparing us now to the Port of 2010-2012, of course we are a much more successful club .... We are miles ahead of the Crows - We have high membership, we are winning Showdowns, drawing large crowds, attracting big sponsors, have forged that path to China, and are a club that other teams try to emulate and the public enjoy watching.

He does have a lot to be proud of in being part of the group that led us out of the sewer we were in back then ... Will he be part of any 'ultimate success' if we get to the big dance? I really dont think so, not unless he can regain form.

I read what you wrote here so watched the Video.
For those people quoting parts based on the transcript is so unfair.
Watch the Video and get the context. It shows a caring person and it becomes clear why he is such a valued member of the club by the players and officials.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

Hey, I reckon HH needs dropping to the Pies, but by God there are some ugly comments here! Watch the video at least & have some empathy!

As for success ... Success is a very general word, and is measured in different ways. Hence the use of the term "ultimate success" to refer to a premiership. Comparing us now to the Port of 2010-2012, of course we are a much more successful club .... We are miles ahead of the Crows - We have high membership, we are winning Showdowns, drawing large crowds, attracting big sponsors, have forged that path to China, and are a club that other teams try to emulate and the public enjoy watching.

He does have a lot to be proud of in being part of the group that led us out of the sewer we were in back then ... Will he be part of any 'ultimate success' if we get to the big dance? I really dont think so, not unless he can regain form.

Not sure if this is referring to my posts but for the record I love Hammer. Nothing but respect for what he's done for the club.

Just don't believe he is best 22 now, and regardless of context he has exceptionally low standards if he thinks we are successful. If he was to say he believes we are on a path to success I'd feel totally differently about it.

I really will never understand why the fact that we cycled down in 2011, like just about every club does at some point, before AO came online, and spent a couple of years of a 150 year history at the bottom of the ladder is held as the moment in the club's history that we need to refer everything back to. You could just as easily point back to 2002-04 and ask the question why we are so far off our last peak.

 

[Wargreymon90]

I think the club and Hamish gave up way to quickly in making him a midfielder.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

Tredrea said on AA tonight that he has been carrying something but he's back to 100% now.

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[raman]

Tredrea said on AA tonight that he has been carrying something but he's back to 100% now.

Oh man I wish this wasn't in the Hartlett thread.

 

[Amarula]

Tredrea said on AA tonight that he has been carrying something but he's back to 100% now.

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Obvious question being: If he was playing so badly. Ecause he’s “carrying something”, why on earth is he still getting picked ahead of fully fit players who are at least his equal, such as McKenzie, Lienert or even Garner?

Peak Kern.

 

[longdonkey]

I think the club and Hamish gave up way to quickly in making him a midfielder.

I suspect that if he had played as a mid he would have been breaking down with hammys a fair bit and the decision was possibly made to prolong his career.

 

[agmsy]

Like Rockliff, you keep him for depth as your challenging but he just doesn’t have the wheels for the modern game. Time marches on.

Surprised this went unchallenged.

Injuries withstanding, Drew's getting games ahead of Rockliff because there's more to think about than one game or one season. If finals started tomorrow, and I had to choose between a healthy Rockliff and healthy Drew, I'm taking Rockliff.

That's not the case with Hartlett, at least right now. I defended him a month ago, and I still think his role is more sacrificial and accountable than what we've seen Bergman and Jones (and Frederick) asked to do so far, but I don't see a lot in his game right now that would demand selection over Jones or Bergman in a make-or-break final.

That still might change - maybe there's a niggle he works through, or maybe he finds form or fitness in the twos - but Hartlett retaining his spot on current output reeks of a gold pass in a way that Rockliff returning to our team does not.

 

[longdonkey]

I have no issue with Hartlett in the team and I think if we had less injuries down back he might have had a week off to sort out his injury.
As for Rockliff, I think he should have played the 2 games we lost in the rain.

 

[Janus]

Surprised this went unchallenged.

Injuries withstanding, Drew's getting games ahead of Rockliff because there's more to think about than one game or one season. If finals started tomorrow, and I had to choose between a healthy Rockliff and healthy Drew, I'm taking Rockliff.

That's not the case with Hartlett, at least right now. I defended him a month ago, and I still think his role is more sacrificial and accountable than what we've seen Bergman and Jones (and Frederick) asked to do so far, but I don't see a lot in his game right now that would demand selection over Jones or Bergman in a make-or-break final.

That still might change - maybe there's a niggle he works through, or maybe he finds form or fitness in the twos - but Hartlett retaining his spot on current output reeks of a gold pass in a way that Rockliff returning to our team does not.

You’re forgetting one fundamental thing - we are still missing Butters and Duursma from this team. And I’m playing Zak over either of them.

Our best midfield is Lycett, Wines, Powell-Pepper, Boak, Butters, Duursma, Amon and Motlop.

Our best defence is Aliir, Jonas, Clurey, Bergman, Jones, Houston, Byrne-Jones and Burton (Houston doubles up as a mid rotation as well).

Our best forward line is Dixon, Georgiades, Marshall, Fantasia, Gray and Rozee (with mids swapping with Gray, Fantasia and Rozee).

22 players. Which of them are you going to swap out for Rockliff?

 

[bomberclifford]

If finals started tomorrow, and I had to choose between a healthy Rockliff and healthy Drew, I'm taking Rockliff.

You’ve got rocks in your head.

 

[backtozero]

Tredrea said on AA tonight that he has been carrying something but he's back to 100% now.

On SM-G960F using
BigFooty.com mobile app

Back to 100% in just one week?

 

[Enviable Tradition]

Back to 100% in just one week?

The impression I got was that he was pretty close to 100% last week and it was more about him needing to regain form.



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[agmsy]

You’re forgetting one fundamental thing - we are still missing Butters and Duursma from this team. And I’m playing Zak over either of them.

What? I said if I had to choose between those two players, I would make a certain choice. If you want to shift the goal posts, that's fine, but let's not pretend that you haven't, and let's not pretend that Butters and Rockliff/Drew have anything like the same role at stoppages, either.

22 players. Which of them are you going to swap out for Rockliff?

None. Don't have to, because, like me, you've left Drew out of the side. But, again, if selection policy is to use the "next best" player as a sub, I think, for a final, if my three best available players are Rockliff, Drew, and Hartlett, then Rockliff would be my choice.

There's also the matter of round 1, where Butters, Duursma, Drew, and Rockliff all found their way into the 23.

You’ve got rocks in your head.

Rock.

 

[longdonkey]

In the wet playing HH and Rockliff is a no-brainer. Hard bodies and in HH case a penetrating kick. Rockliff probably doesn't play on a fast deck ie Marvel Stadium. At full strength Hartlett still plays but Rockliff probably doesn't or is sub.

 

[Janus]

What? I said if I had to choose between those two players, I would make a certain choice. If you want to shift the goal posts, that's fine, but let's not pretend that you haven't, and let's not pretend that Butters and Rockliff/Drew have anything like the same role at stoppages, either.

None. Don't have to, because, like me, you've left Drew out of the side. But, again, if selection policy is to use the "next best" player as a sub, I think, for a final, if my three best available players are Rockliff, Drew, and Hartlett, then Rockliff would be my choice.

There's also the matter of round 1, where Butters, Duursma, Drew, and Rockliff all found their way into the 23.

That's because Powell-Pepper and Jones weren't in the R1 side. And no, I'm still not picking Rockliff over Drew for finals. I need players that are going to get from contest to contest when the heat is on. I'd give Rockliff games when the grounds get heavy and its wet in the middle of winter, but my original post stated that he doesn't have the legs to match it with younger teams. Especially now that he's injured both knees.

 

[finbarr]

Drew has been pretty underrated in here. He's becoming a pretty important part of this team in much the same way Dom Cassisi did in the early 2000's.

 

[longdonkey]

Drew has been pretty underrated in here. He's becoming a pretty important part of this team in much the same way Dom Cassisi did in the early 2000's.

I agree he's playing some pretty good footy and while his kicking could get better (he's no orphan there) he looks as likely to be the successor to Boak as Butters is. Although Butters is a better player I think Drew can only play in the midfield.