Has Lance Franklin surpassed Wayne Carey as the greatest key forward of the modern era?

[PhatBoy]

Yeah, but by the same token, there are less goals kicked per game now, and people still won't concede it's easier to kick goals, so surely it works both ways.

the goals thing is fair but a) carey should be being weighted on goals anymore than Greg Williams should be. His job simply wasn’t to just kick goals. B) I also think that in the same way Ablett wasn’t bound by a position as such, Franklin isn’t either and I think he would have played the same way in any era. I think he probably would have kicked more goals back then but I don’t think he would benefit from the differences as much as say, Riewoldt, Hawkins or Kennedy who play more as traditional forwards than what Franklin does. (And again that’s not to say those players would actually have been better than Franklin if they all played in that era)

 

[SSwans2011]

the goals thing is fair but a) carey should be being weighted on goals anymore than Greg Williams should be. His job simply wasn’t to just kick goals. B) I also think that in the same way Ablett wasn’t bound by a position as such, Franklin isn’t either and I think he would have played the same way in any era. I think he probably would have kicked more goals back then but I don’t think he would benefit from the differences as much as say, Riewoldt, Hawkins or Kennedy who play more as traditional forwards than what Franklin does. (And again that’s not to say those players would actually have been better than Franklin if they all played in that era)

Disagree he wouldn't have benefited anymore than Riewoldt or Kennedy.
Probably on par as Hawkins. Franklin's not a great contested mark, but he's deceptively strong in marking contest. Used to get pinged all the time for outmiscling his opponent in the marking contest, and it seems it's something he's removed from his game this season. I reckon he would have easily pushed Lockett's record with his combination of strength and athleticism in the 80s-90s, so will agree you can't compare their roles.

 

[Pessimistic]

This is the team of the century (was Carey eligible, sivagni was)

which player should either Carey or Franklin be compared with?

HF: A. Jesaulenko, R. Hart, D. Reynolds
F: L. Matthews, J. Coleman, H. Bunton

 

[Shannon M]

Carey with two of the best marks you'll see in a space of two minutes when the match is up for grabs. Longmire too taking some incredibly strong contested marks in this video too.

I don't think Bud has taken a mark like that in his career.

Timestamp set in each video if you click play that's why I've posted it twice.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

This is the team of the century (was Carey eligible, sivagni was)

which player should either Carey or Franklin be compared with?

HF: A. Jesaulenko, R. Hart, D. Reynolds
F: L. Matthews, J. Coleman, H. Bunton

Both Carey and Hart were traditional CHF's but Carey did it better and for longer and I think Carey deserves that spot if the team was re-done.

Franklin doesn't really compare to any of those names - he is a unique player but he would not look out of place to me on a flank (or on the bench). Completely different types of players but I would probably prefer Franklin over Jezza, especially with Matthews, Bunton and Reynolds who are all 'smalls'.

 

[Shannon M]

I don't get how marking is viewed as such a strong point in Carey's favour in general. He took 1 more mark per game. Franklin lays 1 more tackle per game.

You can say "watch the game", but even if you do, Wayne Carey still only takes 1 more mark per game, and Buddy kicks more goals and lays more tackles.

I'm not saying Buddy is better either BTW, just seems a pretty dumb point for people to base their entire case on.

You can chip it around getting cheap possessions these days. You see Bud streaming up on the wing get a cheap kick and mark several times per game. It's garbage possession. Possession counts in 2021 only useful to compare to other games in 2021 or the last few years. Completely irrelevant to he mid-90s.

 

[Shannon M]

Just a random clip.

0.29 in McKernan with the strong contested mark 2 on 1, Carey reads the flight well for a good chest mark and then puts his 7th goal through. Runs out from the boundary gets squeezed and pressured in a way they aren't now.

2.13 in Carey double teamed by Hird and Fletcher. A little bit tougher than dealing with a couple of midfielders in a zone who can't chop your arms or touch you.

Watch the whole clip the footy is better than what you'll see watching for men chip it around at half back for 3 hours now. It's extraordinary how bad the game is in comparison to the 90s.

 

[freddy mercury]

Local Carlton fan;

HaRRY MckaAY is the GoaT

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Carey with two of the best marks you'll see in a space of two minutes when the match is up for grabs. Longmire too taking some incredibly strong contested marks in this video too.

I don't think Bud has taken a mark like that in his career.

Timestamp set in each video if you click play that's why I've posted it twice.

Amazing marks and no doubt an area that Carey is superior in. Buddy has done it though (I remember him taking a nice one late in a final against the Bulldogs in 2008 when he kicked 8 on Lake and Morris) but nowhere near the regularity of Carey.

They're different players with different skillsets though.

I mean, I could show 25 highlights of Buddy kicking goals from the centre square and well outside 50 whilst Carey was not capable of that.

 

[Shannon M]

This is a 60m kick and none of that bounces one or two times and through like Buddy's 70m goals.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

This is a 60m kick and none of that bounces one or two times and through like Buddy's 70m goals.

Good kick no doubt but he took the mark at about 45 metres out - well inside the 50 line. It was mentioned by the commentators he was a chance as 55 is his limit (mentioned in your other videos too). That's a bit different to kicking them from the centre square under pressure.

 

[Shannon M]

Good kick no doubt but he took the mark at about 45 metres out - well inside the 50 line. It was mentioned by the commentators he was a chance as 55 is his limit (mentioned in your other videos too). That's a bit different to kicking them from the centre square under pressure.

Kick was from about 52 or 53 then sailed at least 10m past the line.

 

[RUNVS]

This is a 60m kick and none of that bounces one or two times and through like Buddy's 70m goals.

You think Buddy isn't capable of kicking 60m goals without the ball bouncing?

 

[GetDimmaBack]

Both superstars, but I'd rather have Carey in my side than Buddy.

Meaning no disrespect to Buddy in any way.

 

[PhatBoy]

You think Buddy isn't capable of kicking 60m goals without the ball bouncing?

Maybe this is more a reflection of the gap between Carey to his mortal teammates and the gap between Franklin and his bit Carey’s ability to be ‘the man’ when it was most needed was fairly definitive - like if the game was on the line you knew it was a case of ‘just get it to Carey and let him do the rest’ where as I don’t think Franklin has been that player to the same degree. As I said though that may owe a lot to the relative strength of his teammates too

 

[Shannon M]

You think Buddy isn't capable of kicking 60m goals without the ball bouncing?

I’m not saying that I’m saying Carey can kick a ball 60m too

 

[SSwans2011]

Maybe this is more a reflection of the gap between Carey to his mortal teammates and the gap between Franklin and his bit Carey’s ability to be ‘the man’ when it was most needed was fairly definitive - like if the game was on the line you knew it was a case of ‘just get it to Carey and let him do the rest’ where as I don’t think Franklin has been that player to the same degree. As I said though that may owe a lot to the relative strength of his teammates too

I disagree with this. Hard to count how many close games where Buddy has either dragged us over the line, or how many times he's done everything possible to drag us over the line, but we've fallen short. The latter has happened 3 times this season alone.

 

[Shannon M]

Maybe this is more a reflection of the gap between Carey to his mortal teammates and the gap between Franklin and his bit Carey’s ability to be ‘the man’ when it was most needed was fairly definitive - like if the game was on the line you knew it was a case of ‘just get it to Carey and let him do the rest’ where as I don’t think Franklin has been that player to the same degree. As I said though that may owe a lot to the relative strength of his teammates too

Hawks didn’t miss Franklin when he left, Franklin awol in the 2015 finals.

It’s such a ridiculous comparison anyway.

Franklin isn’t even the best forward to have played for Sydney.

No-one in the 90s had Lockett ahead of Carey as a player.

 

[Shack18]

Hawks didn’t miss Franklin when he left, Franklin awol in the 2015 finals.

It’s such a ridiculous comparison anyway.

Franklin isn’t even the best forward to have played for Sydney.

No-one in the 90s had Lockett ahead of Carey as a player.

Agreed Carey comfortably.
Franklin better athlete, Carey better footballer and the big difference between Carey and any other player I have seen is his ability to bring teammates into the game, massive influence over results

 

[Shannon M]

And another thing, no player copped as much opposition crowd abuse as Carey but never once complained or even mentioned it come to think of it. The foulest abuse you can imagine. For worse than what any ex Sydney player ever put up with.

Carey the ultimate team athlete. Spawned a generation of guys like Riewoldt, Tredrea, Brown, Pavlich (played a lot of time in the midfield though) none of them measured up. Riewoldt in 2009 was unstoppable though probably his 2009 was the closest to anyone being like Carey.

 

[Rasha]

And another thing, no player copped as much opposition crowd abuse as Carey but never once complained or even mentioned it come to think of it. The foulest abuse you can imagine. For worse than what any ex Sydney player ever put up with.

Adam Goodes?

 

[Shannon M]

Adam Goodes?

Many men have played for Sydney since 1982 don't go putting words in my mouth. Capper did cop a lot of abuse I might be talking about him, but it will remain a mystery for now!

 

[Pessimistic]

Adam Goodes?

eek. Although it now seems like Goodes had years of abuse it was a fairly short period

 

[JackFlash]

Comparisons with footballers who began playing in the 2000s is impossible, they play a totally different game.

 

[bullish23]

Agreed Carey comfortably.
Franklin better athlete, Carey better footballer and the big difference between Carey and any other player I have seen is his ability to bring teammates into the game, massive influence over results

Huh? Wasn’t Pagan’s paddock a construct to exactly isolate Carey in his prime, in forward 50? Not sure how that is brining others into the game….

I don’t agree on the ‘comfortably’ comment either. Carey is the best player I’ve seen, but Buddy is not that far behind. Seeing what the Cats, Hawks and Tigers have done since, North with that list and the greatest player in the game, did they in hindsight underachieve? Didn’t they make 7 prelims in a row?