Has Lance Franklin surpassed Wayne Carey as the greatest key forward of the modern era?

[PhatBoy]

Huh? Wasn’t Pagan’s paddock a construct to exactly isolate Carey in his prime, in forward 50? Not sure how that is brining others into the game….

I don’t agree on the ‘comfortably’ comment either. Carey is the best player I’ve seen, but Buddy is not that far behind. Seeing what the Cats, Hawks and Tigers have done since, North with that list and the greatest player in the game, did they in hindsight underachieve? Didn’t they make 7 prelims in a row?

possibly but the years they missed out - 94 and 95 were won by juggernaut west coast and carlton teams.
They lost one in 98 they should have won against Adelaide but they probably snuck one in 99 when Essendon bottled it in the preliminary final. Essendon were clearly the best in 2000.
They were an excellent side north, obviously the most consistent of that era. But 2 flags seems about par.
And yes pagans paddock was about isolating Carey but they didn’t do it all the time and as has been discussed in this thread, during one five year block John Longmire kicked 400 goals so it wasn’t as though he spent that whole time just as a focal point for 17 other players at a given moment to look for.

 

[MF]

Comparisons with footballers who began playing in the 2000s is impossible, they play a totally different game.

Exactly. I don't think there's ever been a bigger shift in the game. 90's football and football of the past 15-20 years are worlds apart.

 

[My Tilly]

Having recently had the privilege of sorting through almost 200 games from Carey's career, I was taken aback by his work around the ground. I remembered him as this colossal power forward who formed a dominant partnership with Longmire then later, McKernan. But when you sit back and re visit his career, he was different to every other power forward we have ever seen in the modern era. He played much shorter, almost like a midfielder. I reckon this allowed him to impact games like very few as he could contest ruck contests (often grabbing the ball and throwing it on the boot) and he could beat anyone in the air. Was a truly brilliant pack mark and was often playing at centre half back such was his reading of the play.

And those who are saying Buddy is a far better athlete, I am not sure about that. Buddy has Carey covered for leg speed but Carey his him covered in leaping ability and natural strength. Both are prodigious long kicks of the footy and both players were/are freakish when it came to scoring goals.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Exactly. I don't think there's ever been a bigger shift in the game. 90's football and football of the past 15-20 years are worlds apart.

Not even the same sport in my opinion. One is AFL: and the other is Australian Rules Football.
Worlds apart

 

[ThatsjustDappa]

Carey the ultimate team athlete. Spawned a generation of guys like Riewoldt, Tredrea, Brown, Pavlich (played a lot of time in the midfield though) none of them measured up. Riewoldt in 2009 was unstoppable though probably his 2009 was the closest to anyone being like Carey.

Relax with the hyperbole, we all know Carey got around a bit but hey.....

I think Carey was better, but team player though? Nah, he owned the forward 50 by himself......

 

[PhatBoy]

Relax with the hyperbole, we all know Carey got around a bit but hey.....

I think Carey was better, but team player though? Nah, he owned the forward 50 by himself......

So during the 9 or so seasons where he was averaging around 18 disposals a game who were they going to

 

[Marlo]

Would be interesting to see the usage rate in forward 50/how often they were targeted by team mates

Don't think I've seen players burn their team mates more to spot up a player like Franklin

Could be wrong

Franklin also dealing with way more flooded forward 50s tho

 

[ThatsjustDappa]

So during the 9 or so seasons where he was averaging around 18 disposals a game who were they going to

Over the goal umpires head....

 

[Shannon M]

Where did people get this idea that Carey just had the whole 50 to himself one on one with a defender?

It's far more common these days to see a forward free in the forward line often unmanned when the zone defence breaks down or there's a turnover in the middle of the ground and everyone is out of position.

 

[Shack18]

Huh? Wasn’t Pagan’s paddock a construct to exactly isolate Carey in his prime, in forward 50? Not sure how that is brining others into the game….

I don’t agree on the ‘comfortably’ comment either. Carey is the best player I’ve seen, but Buddy is not that far behind. Seeing what the Cats, Hawks and Tigers have done since, North with that list and the greatest player in the game, did they in hindsight underachieve? Didn’t they make 7 prelims in a row?

Lol Allison, Freeborn Et al made a career running past the King. He made everyone around better, unlike any player I have seen. His on field presence was immense

 

[The Dougster]

Then in your opinion what modern players play the same role as Carey?

You Sydney nuffies are unreal. Back in the day Plugger was better. Now Buddy

Close but no cigar

 

[Jezzaubeautym8]

There have at least been 3-5 better forwards than Buddy during the Modern era

 

[RUNVS]

There have at least been 3-5 better forwards than Buddy during the Modern era

Name them?

Also the title says "Key Forward" and by the sounds of it Carey wasn't even the key forward in his own team.

 

[PhatBoy]

Name them?

Also the title says "Key Forward" and by the sounds of it Carey wasn't even the key forward in his own team.

Are you serious?
So jack darling isn’t a key forward
Jarryd Roughead wasn’t a key forward
Scott Lucas.
Jack Riewoldt will be interested to hear your interpretation of what a key forward is.


Read what people are saying instead of taking umbrage because they don’t have the same view as you.


then tell them why you think being at various stages the second most frequent direct scoring avenue somehow makes you not a key forward. Because, you know, every forward’s ONLY job is to kick goals. Nothing else. That’s all they do
At any rate it wouldn’t be hard to mount an argument to say that depending on what you consider modern, Ablett, Carey and Lockett were all better

 

[Shannon M]

There have at least been 3-5 better forwards than Buddy during the Modern era

Modra if he doesn’t do his knee is better

 

[The Passenger]

I'm just trying to imagine Bud getting this kind of treatment he wouldn't get a mark all day. Basically every contest Jakovich commits 1-2 free kicks. Bud gets soft tissue injuries running for the ball he wouldn't have lasted past 30 years of age in previous eras.

Doesn't really work like that. Both players played to the rule and tactics of the day.

If they were playing now, they'd both be the star key forward and key defenders that they were 25 years ago. They'd just play to today's style.

Jako wouldn't be able to chop the arms and put his arm around the shoulder, but he'd simply adapt (well, actually he wouldn't adapt because if he was in his prime now he'd have developed his defending without arm chopping etc). He'd also have a lot more team support than he did in the 90's when it was very much 1 on 1. Meanwhile Carey would be even fitter than he was, and would work his ass off even more to get out on the lead and away from the team defence that is common place now.

 

[The Passenger]

As an aside this isn't quite never meet your hero's, but Jakovich was my favourite Eagles when I was a youngster in the 90's. I remember when he first started commenting I was keen as * to hear his insights into football at the highest level. Instead it was more like....

 

[MinerBoy]

God there's some dumb s**t posted by both sides to this argument just to justify whatever stance is being taken.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Name them?

Also the title says "Key Forward" and by the sounds of it Carey wasn't even the key forward in his own team.

Huh?

 

[PhatBoy]

Huh?

Don’t waste your time. Apparently only the prime goal kicker in any given side is a key forward

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Don’t waste your time. Apparently only the prime goal kicker in any given side is a key forward

So what's the rule for identifying key defenders?

 

[PhatBoy]

So what's the rule for identifying key defenders?

I’m assuming whoever takes, say Tom Lynch for example, is just a back pocket

harry Taylor and Glen Jakovich will be chuffed to know they were just general defenders

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Carey wasn’t even the best forward in his era. Dunstall, Ablett and Plugger all clear of Carey.

 

[Shack18]

Carey wasn’t even the best forward in his era. Dunstall, Ablett and Plugger all clear of Carey.

Oh dear

 

[dlb99]

Carey wasn’t even the best forward in his era. Dunstall, Ablett and Plugger all clear of Carey.

Carey was the best player of his era, and the best I have seen play this game.