How long does the AFLW season need to be?

[The Victorian]

The cricket fixtures are set to come out next week. We will then have a clearer idea

 

[Munga]

Good to see the AFLW reads my posts Not competing with the AFL mens is a win for sanity.

And the season should be recorded by the year in which the premiership is awarded, none of this 21/22 or "Season Six". The next premiership is awarded in 2022, so call it the 2022 Premiership Season.

Play each other once for a start. From late September to late March there are six months of "clean air". 13 rounds + 3 weeks of finals, that's only 4 months. Play 8 rounds, have 2 weeks off for Christmas/New Year break/recuperation, then complete the final 5 rounds + finals. It'll be finished by late Feb/early March.
With probable scorching temps from late November, I'd be inclined to schedule most matches from the late evening onwards, plenty of night time double headers with eastern states followed by western states.

All the better if it goes to 18 teams, that's 17 rounds plus 4 weeks finals. 12 rounds pre Christmas, 5 rounds + 4 finals weeks post New Year. Does anyone really give a stuff about BBL? You can't be worrying about comps like that otherwise the AFLW will never be played! The Christmas/New Year break I suggested takes those two largest test matches out of the equation too.

Take this year for example. AFL GF on 25 September. That leaves 13 weeks pre Christmas. Then there's 10 or 11 weeks before round 1 AFL. Being conservative, that's 23 weeks to fit in 21 rounds of AFLW, so they could even have an extra bye or two.

The cleanest air you'll get is outside the AFL season, there's no point playing during it, EVERYTHING gets eaten up by the AFL media even it's own womens game. This is so obvious I shouldn't have to say it. Worrying about cricket, men's preseason, trade week, moomba, whatever else won't be workable and just excuses that'll leave us with 2 weeks for AFLW.

WBBL??? I think there are too many people here being accommodating to every other event. The AFLW has to learn to stand on it's own. If it can't exist beside events like BBL/WBBL then it never will do well. Bogans who watch BBL will never be into AFLW anyway, there's no loss there.

As far as grounds, do they play cricket all summer at Moorabbin, Victoria Park, Princes Park? I really don't know the answer but I'd be surprised if they do. I would imagine that there are plenty of free grounds to utilise, we don't need 50k stadiums (except for a GF).

Do you think the Test Cricket, ODIs, A-League, W-League, NBL, Australian Open tennis, ATP Cup, Brisbane/Hobart/Adelaide International, Formula One, PGA golf etc etc....... worry about big bash? Should we try to fit in with all those other sports too?

The AFL media suffocates and kills everything else, even it's own AFLW. Ratings is one thing, media attention is another. And do you really want to dodge around BBL so you can have a mickey mouse half season which might rate better, or would you rather the length of a fair premiership season and the respect that comes with winning that? If the life of the AFLW is just to dodge BBL season for some ratings then it's in trouble already.

I completely agree with where you're coming from and we both want what's best for the game. I guess I don't see revenue as that important at this stage of the AFLW implementation. The AFL should be pumping in more money to AFLW instead of what they are gifting to GWS and GC. It's just my opinion of course, I think at this stage they should concentrate on building a fair and respected league/premiership season played in the AFL off-season, then later on they can start selling parts of it's soul to appease the networks.

Yeah there are plenty of details to work out. Fair pay is one, but playing just 9 rounds won't cut it. For the integrity of the competition, and for better pay, there needs to be more rounds.

As far as when the season should be played, there isn't a single week during the AFL mens season where any other competition has air to breath with the media. During the AFL mens off-season there will be a few bad weeks with other sports on, but there will also be good weeks and plenty of free air and dedicated coverage of AFLW. There's no doubt which is better for attention, there should be no overlap with the mens game. I don't know how the ratings went, but the AFLW crowds were actually lower once the AFL men kicked off. I'm a customer of the game, and I can say with much confidence that the media "blackhole" is once the AFL men start, and they only took a slight interest in the womens Grand Final. The off-season attention is night and day.

As I mentioned earlier regarding facilities:
As far as grounds, do they play cricket all summer at Moorabbin, Victoria Park, Princes Park, Whitton Oval? I really don't know the answer but I'd be surprised if they do. I would imagine that there are plenty of free grounds to utilise, we don't need 50k stadiums (except for a GF).
There would be dozens and dozens of ovals to play on, surely. 5k-10k crowds max.

With the timing and duration of the season I thought:
If/when it goes to 18 teams, that's 17 rounds plus 4 weeks finals. 12 rounds pre Christmas, 5 rounds + 4 finals weeks post New Year. Two or three weeks off for the Christmas/New Year break.
Take this year for example. AFL GF on 25 September. That leaves 13 weeks pre Christmas and 10 or 11 weeks before round 1 AFL. Being conservative, that's 23 weeks to fit in 21 rounds of AFLW, so they could even have an extra bye or two.

With the staff, is that really an issue? I admit I haven't even considered the staff, I just assumed that the competition would have their own staff?? If AFLW are borrowing AFL staff, then yeah they are pretty much locked into playing during the mens season! It's a good point. Hopefully one day they can stand on their own feet with their own staff. I wonder what the W-League do? I'd imagine the would have less resources than AFLW.

 

[Teen Wolf]

The issue about coverage amongst other sports was quite clearly acknowledged by the AFL yesterday, Munga.

What about a potential clash with tennis and cricket?
Reading between the lines, it looks as though the AFL is focused on a strong presence at the start and the end of the season, ceding some ground and media attention through the middle rounds to the other sports.

"The start will be really important for us, to make sure we do get off to a good start. We think the window we select will get us off to a good start. Then the finish, in terms of the Grand Final, will also be important with all eyes on us before the men's starts," AFL head of women's football Nicole Livingstone said.

Are the broadcasters on board?
The Seven Network and Fox Sports also hold the rights to the cricket, inclusive of the international schedule and the W/BBL.

"There have been discussions about that, and they're great supporters, our broadcasters," McLachlan said.

If the first Ashes Test starts on Thursday 9 December as rumoured, it'll give AFLW the first weekend of December to open the season with unimpeded coverage on Ch7. Same premise as every year in the past when they've worked FTA games around BBL finals.

 

[Aardvark]

7 can always put the cricket on 7mate.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Why don't they simply run the AFLW as the same time as the AFL? The people that follow it will still follow it surely? Putting it up against Cricket at peak time in cricket season could turn out even worse than playing the same time as men. It's a winter sport, play it in Winter.

 

[The Nostradamus]

Why don't they simply run the AFLW as the same time as the AFL? The people that follow it will still follow it surely? Putting it up against Cricket at peak time in cricket season could turn out even worse than playing the same time as men. It's a winter sport, play it in Winter.

Because they’ve found when aflw overlaps with afl people start to tune out of aflw

more eyes on it when competing with other sports outside of afl

 

[Biggie]

Why don't they simply run the AFLW as the same time as the AFL? The people that follow it will still follow it surely? Putting it up against Cricket at peak time in cricket season could turn out even worse than playing the same time as men. It's a winter sport, play it in Winter.

Had the same thought

It doesn’t work

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Because they’ve found when aflw overlaps with afl people start to tune out of aflw

more eyes on it when competing with other sports outside of afl

I understand that but I think they are really clutching at straws trying to put it up against Cricket at Peak time. You go up against the Test Series and BBL and they may end up with less than Putting it on when the AFL play. Cricket is hugely followed, especially for TV eyes.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Had the same thought

It doesn’t work

It won't work against our Test cricket team or the BBL either.

 

[NoobPie]

I understand that but I think they are really clutching at straws trying to put it up against Cricket at Peak time. You go up against the Test Series and BBL and they may end up with less than Putting it on when the AFL play. Cricket is hugely followed, especially for TV eyes.

It won't work against our Test cricket team or the BBL either.

There is simply no way that cricket would have a bigger impact on viewer numbers than going up against the AFL.

1) the overlap with AFL interest would be far greater
2) the actual interest in cricket is lower than the AFL overall and substantially so in the traditional states

Ultimately (after expansion) it will start before international and bbl cricket starts and have the finals before the AFL starts. Cricket high season and the Aus open will obviously drag down away some interest in the guts of the season but overall playing outside of the AFL season would clearly maximise exposure

 

[Teen Wolf]

The ratings drain is so significant in either scenario where there's a clash, ideally you'd avoid both. But there are far less opportunities to directly clash with men's cricket which, for example, is rarely a Sunday afternoon FTA TV product (the prime AFLW timeslot).

And there are a whole range of other factors that have been repeatedly mentioned, like staff crossover etc, which have always made a summer AFLW comp much more desirable for the league and its clubs and their supporters.

The people that follow it will still follow it surely?

The AFL surely don't want to cannibalise its own product. And it turns out Friday 4pm games are hard for people to attend. A lot of people also don't have the time to spend 6 hours at a stadium each weekend (consider the reasons for the BBL's popularity among families, speaking of cricket).

 

[greatwhiteshark]

There is simply no way that cricket would have a bigger impact on viewer numbers than going up against the AFL.

1) the overlap with AFL interest would be far greater
2) the actual interest in cricket is lower than the AFL overall and substantially so in the traditional states

Ultimately (after expansion) it will start before international and bbl cricket starts and have the finals before the AFL starts. Cricket high season and the Aus open will obviously drag down away some interest in the guts of the season but overall playing outside of the AFL season would clearly maximise exposure

You may be correct in all of that, I just dont see people who have the cricket on all day then tuning into an AFLW game, where as I do see an AFLW game being tuned into if it was a lead up game to the AFL.
Anyway I guess it's audience will watch in whenever it is on.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

The ratings drain is so significant in either scenario where there's a clash, ideally you'd avoid both. But there are far less opportunities to directly clash with men's cricket which, for example, is rarely a Sunday afternoon FTA TV product (the prime AFLW timeslot).

And there are a whole range of other factors that have been repeatedly mentioned, like staff crossover etc, which have always made a summer AFLW comp much more desirable for the league and its clubs and their supporters.


The AFL surely don't want to cannibalise its own product. And it turns out Friday 4pm games are hard for people to attend. A lot of people also don't have the time to spend 6 hours at a stadium each weekend (consider the reasons for the BBL's popularity among families, speaking of cricket).

Those people are not going to watch AFLW though instead, Crickets viewers are very much TV based now and not so much that people sit their all day watching it but more that it is just on and they check the score every time they walk past the TV.

Anyway it doesnt really bother me and I was only providing an opinion based on that I think playing them as lead up games to the men is a better option. Just my opinion, clearly the AFL believe it can stand on it's own and thats cool to.

 

[Tarkyn_24]

You may be correct in all of that, I just dont see people who have the cricket on all day then tuning into an AFLW game, where as I do see an AFLW game being tuned into if it was a lead up game to the AFL.
Anyway I guess it's audience will watch in whenever it is on.

Watched a number of AFLW games that concluded or slightly overlapped BBL in the summer, not sure what issues you’re seeing? Tests? Wouldn’t have the viewership of the shorter product anyway I wouldn’t have thought?

 

[Teen Wolf]

Those people are not going to watch AFLW though instead

I'm talking about people who want to watch and attend games and buy memberships for both their men's and women's team, i.e. the core AFLW audience. Totally unreasonable to expect them to do that if the seasons run at the same time.

 

[jatz14]

You may be correct in all of that, I just dont see people who have the cricket on all day then tuning into an AFLW game, where as I do see an AFLW game being tuned into if it was a lead up game to the AFL.
Anyway I guess it's audience will watch in whenever it is on.

Most people that watch AFL will devote a certain amount of time to it. I rarely watch all games of AFL on offer. So, if you add AFLW to that mix, you increase the amount of footy on offer, but a lot of people dont increase the amount of footy they watch, so AFLW loses out. The number that prioritise an AFLW match over AFL is not enough, and if it was, it just means its cannibalising the AFL.

There will be cricket fans that do not watch footy at all, so they dont count. There will be cricket fans that are BigFooty fans, who will turn off the cricket for a couple of hours for a footy game.

Its just easier and more viable all round.