Opinion Is it one step back to take 2 forwards, or march on forward..

[gringo2011]

I noticed a real drop in interest from Saints supporters I know around the traps last season! Some stopped going to games they would have gone to and seems like they were still staying away this season. The club needs to really get its s#it together from this point and get results that ignite people's interest and bring supporters back on board. Some serious list management will be needed and nobody should be spared in what is has been an under-performing list.

Or will that make it worse? It's a real cross road for the club. We are struggling off field and the only thing likely to bring people back is success but trading out your players that keep you competitive is likely to make us less attractive for the next few years. I think part of our issues are due to not wanting to bottom outlander Richo, but being poor at drafting as well. A near full list replacement in 6 years means we are probably over estimating where we should be. We will be younger than any cub in the AFL next year with our outs and games played is nearly the same. We are not going o be a consistent side until we get to a mature age with 100 games under the bulk of the list.

 

[WhiskySaint]

I really hate the idea of trading away best 22 players as well. I really struggled to get motivated this year after our early form petered out. Richo going gave a brief spike in interest again but I hardly made any games as it was. Next 2 years are going to be hard to watch, I'm still angry about the waste and mismanagement and the potential of a 12 to 15 year break from our last finals to when we are likely to be able to actually seriously challenge. We are rebuilding the rebuild pretty much ground up but with a few less stars than we had the first time. So frustrating.

From our 2013 list we will have Ross, Webster and Geary left if all the expected trades and delistings go ahead as we expect. 6 years and three GOPs left.

From 2015, Geary, Savage, Webster, Lonie, Sinclair, Billings, Ross all that's left if Bruce goes.

2016 add Mc Kenzie and Gresham.

At least Libba seems to have been a bit better since he came in but we live in constant draft pick deficit.

Yeah it’s going to be tough with another rebuild, but in my eyes we don’t really have a choice so we may as well get on with it. I think we have a good young core that are tightly grouped age wise and we need to aim to peak with their age in mine.

Surly people will get excited (despite not making finals) with the King Twins (hopefully) and a couple of other young guns showing the future. That excites me more then watching Bruce and Dunstan type B graders give us a few more wins next yeah.

 

[gringo2011]

Isn't that why we bought Gubby in?

Probably but his best work in the last 5 years was delivering North their 3 underwhelming players last year.

 

[gringo2011]

Yeah it’s going to be tough with another rebuild, but in my eyes we don’t really have a choice so we may as well get on with it. I think we have a good young core that are tightly grouped age wise and we need to aim to peak with their age in mine.

Surly people will get excited (despite not making finals) with the King Twins (hopefully) and a couple of other young guns showing the future. That excites me more then watching Bruce and Dunstan type B graders give us a few more wins next yeah.

I am a bit more conservative, with such a young list I would have kept at the draft for a couple more years like Brisbane did, then free agents and good players are motivated to come. Putting games into players like Clark, Wilkie, Parker, Marshall and Coff at the same time. I think we got Allen when we thought we were closer to a premiership and rather than not use him we are continuing to get the pieces for a premiership while throwing away the other pieces because we have decided a rebuild is on the cards.

We look a bit more like Carlton when they got in a whole lot of average talent from GWS's bin with the players we are looking at. We are giving up the exact players we shouldn't as well. I wish I felt more confident in our ability to get it right. My fingers have been burnt too many times to trust them.

 

[gringo2011]

We should use whatever picks and expendable players we have to try and bring in better players who can play next year.

We don't need to head to the draft this year to bring in young kids. Our two teenagers from last years draft haven't played yet so will essentially be new draftees for next season.

I still prefer to bring in at least a couple every year. I think for where we are at someone like Lauchie Ash makes more sense than Hill if we are rebuilding or even see if we can get Hill from GWS who is more in age profile to what we have.

I think even if we get a great injury run next year the loss of players compared to what we bring in will be pretty much a North Melbourne quality list. No finals and not a lot to get anyone through the gates.

 

[WhiskySaint]

I am a bit more conservative, with such a young list I would have kept at the draft for a couple more years like Brisbane did, then free agents and good players are motivated to come. Putting games into players like Clark, Wilkie, Parker, Marshall and Coff at the same time. I think we got Allen when we thought we were closer to a premiership and rather than not use him we are continuing to get the pieces for a premiership while throwing away the other pieces because we have decided a rebuild is on the cards.

We look a bit more like Carlton when they got in a whole lot of average talent from GWS's bin with the players we are looking at. We are giving up the exact players we shouldn't as well. I wish I felt more confident in our ability to get it right. My fingers have been burnt too many times to trust them.

Yeah, I’d prefer to invest in high potential youth as well. Either through the draft or trade. Caldwell, Constable, Narkle, King, is prefer to target these guys more then Hill. But that’s just me.

 

[gringo2011]

Yeah, I’d prefer to invest in high potential youth as well. Either through the draft or trade. Caldwell, Constable, Narkle, King, is prefer to target these guys more then Hill. But that’s just me.

Yeah, I want to do it properly if we have to feel he pain, make it short and sharp not a slow bleed out like last time. I'm getting to old to find dysfunctional endearing any more.

 

[kernelT]

Interesting times… I think the arrival of the King boys has essentially signaled a fresh rebuild.

I'm trying to blinding follow the hype and get excited about "generational players" & "bookends for the next decade", but my logic says we needed midfield stars and have instead gone for giant St Kilda supporting twins that will require massive draft capital.

People really love big forwards, I just think AFL is a midfielders game these days, although arguments can be made for both.

Taking the "wrong kind" of players is now compounded by a desperate search for picks by way of trading out some of our better players, so that we can slightly address the gaping midfield void.

For varying reasons I think people get more attached to players after a decade of being rubbish, some players represent the slim moments of joy by taking hangers and kicking the odd bag of goals (Bruce), some have been the vehicle of potential (Acres), some we just never got the most out of (Carlisle). It's hard for people to accept moving any of these guys on unless they can see a significant return on the deal. Moving on all three makes sense on some levels, but I'd hate to see any go for less than 15 - 20 pick each.

Being average is bad enough, but the thought of being just as bad but without the players you like to watch is pretty hard to swallow.

Hill is a very good player, just not sure he'll be around when the King's are at their best… if Hill makes the AA team in the next year or so with us, but we are bottom 4, has the trade been a success?

And if you take away the twins element, and the childhood St Kilda story, would we really go all in for a second 200+cm KP player? You can't deny the sentimentality creeping into the thinking and planning, dangerous motivations IMO. So many young key forwards in recent times have been dubbed generational superstars in the making have barely got up to a gallop, now we are going all in on a pair.

I like the idea of picking off a future gun mid like Caldwell before they hit theirs straps, it is also a gamble, but trying to buy players at their peak value is a better option when you are on the cusp of a flag, not 4-5 midfielders short as we are currently.

Not much we can do but pray these King boys are as good as people keep gushing about and Hill is the missing conduit for our sluglife midfield and motley forward line.

 

[Saint Watto]

I think we got Allen when we thought we were closer to a premiership and rather than not use him we are continuing to get the pieces for a premiership while throwing away the other pieces because we have decided a rebuild is on the cards.

Believe me gringo.....the club last year and early this year were under no illusion as to where we were/are.

A couple of people at the club who I spoke to then hammered home this point to me.

The problem was how things get fixed within a reasonable time frame.....it aint easy.

It's a massive task and you just can't help but wonder where the powers to be thought we were at 2-3 years ago.....they had no idea that the iceberg was approaching.

That's why Lethers was brought in.......to get the right people in the right positions.

Gubby is one of those people...he is absolutely passionate about righting the club.

Time will tell just what he can do for us.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Interesting times… I think the arrival of the Kings boys has essentially signaled a fresh rebuild.

I'm trying to blinding follow the hype and get excited about "generational players" & "bookends for the next decade", but my logic says we needed midfield stars and have instead gone for giant St Kilda supporting twins that will require massive draft capital.

People really love big forwards, I just think AFL is a midfielders game these days, although arguments can be made for both.

Taking the "wrong kind" of players is now compounded by a desperate search for picks by way of trading out some of our better players, so that we can slightly address the gaping midfield void.

For varying reasons I think people get more attached to players after a decade of being rubbish, some players represent the slim moments of joy by taking hangers and kicking the odd bag of goals (Bruce), some have been the vehicle of potential (Acres), some we just never got the most out of (Carlisle). It's hard for people to accept moving any of these guys on unless they can see a significant return on the deal. Moving on all three makes sense on some levels, but I'd hate to see any go for less than 15 - 20 pick each.

Being average is bad enough, but the thought of being just as bad but without the players you like to watch is pretty hard to swallow.

Hill is a very good player, just not sure he'll be around when the King's are at their best… if Hill makes the AA team in the next year or so with us, but we are bottom 4, has the trade been a success?

And if you take away the twins element, and the childhood St Kilda story, would we really go all in for a second 200+cm KP player? You can't deny the sentimentality creeping into the thinking and planning, dangerous motivations IMO. So many young key forwards in recent times have been dubbed generational superstars in the making have barely got up to a gallop, now we are going all in on a pair.

I like the idea of picking off a future gun mid like Caldwell before they hit theirs straps, it is also a gamble, but trying to buy players at their peak value is a better option when you are on the cusp of a flag, not 4-5 midfielders short as we are currently.

Not much we can do but pray these King boys are as good as people keep gushing about and Hill is the missing conduit for our sluglife midfield and motley forward line.

Then there's the likes of Newnes who went from being a GOP to being a BOP.

 

[Mowman]

Seems more like 2 steps back one step forward, tiring and hard work being a Saints person

 

[gringo2011]

Seems more like 2 steps back one step forward, tiring and hard work being a Saints person

Yeah, I feel like old guy that half arsed trained for a marathon and just when I thought I was at the 40km mark I realised it was the 20km mark. I'm getting a bit wobbly on my feet.