Free Agency Jade Gresham [Joins Essendon as RFA]

[Bjchan13]

odd one to make up if its not being explored.

my guess is it's being tested with AFL and they're ok with it, so Ralph is smoothing the runway for it.
Whatever it ends up being.

Anything that's been suggested so far could be done without the AFLs approval though. The only reason Essendon would involve the AFL to oversee combining the free agency bid and a trade deal together is if they were wanted some sort of guarantee on the trade after overpaying for Gresham. Eg worried they create pick 13 and then saints back out of the deal, so want it rubber stamped before the free agency bid.

 

[citizen-erased]

Anything that's been suggested so far could be done without the AFLs approval though. The only reason Essendon would involve the AFL to oversee combining the free agency bid and a trade deal together is if they were wanted some sort of guarantee on the trade after overpaying for Gresham. Eg worried they create pick 13 and then saints back out of the deal, so want it rubber stamped before the free agency bid.

fair point.
there's really nothing there that the AFL could take issue with

 

[mike ross]

 

[#1_pigeonracer]

Saints fans in 2016: "Pick 5 will never end up at Essendon"

*sidenote, I agree mostly that this trade scenario is stupid and won't eventuate

We still have Gresham as a result of that trade ironically.

 

[WillHayward]

Is Jon Ralph an Essendon nuffy?

Has to be the most one sided Essendon nuffy article since peptide-gate.

Shiel is a "hard-running explosive midfielder"?

Cox, Stringer, Setterfield and Parish are "quality mids"?

You have to be ******* joking me.

Cox has managed 11 games in two seasons and averages 12 disposals.

Shiel is almost 31. 12 games and averages 18. Cant make Essendon's best 22.

Settefield 10 games.

This is peak nuffy.

Gresham is not amazing but he shits all over Shiel and is 5 years younger.

Ralph has the taking the piss here.

This is no heist. More like shop lifting from your local milk bar.

Peak nuffy.

 

[WillHayward]

That you think Gresham is worth pick 13 compo is taking the P155. He’s not worth close to that. A first round compo pick is meant for a top 5%AFL player.

Top 5% basically means they are one of the 30 best players in the comp or 2 best players on any given team. Gresham isn’t even in the top 2 SFs on St Kilda.

The proposed trade above is a compo rort nothing more. It benefits both teams. If it didn’t then no one would bother

Gresham is worth pick 25-35 and Shiel is worth absolutely nothing.

 

[botts]

Is Jon Ralph an Essendon nuffy?

Has to be the most one sided Essendon nuffy article since peptide-gate.

Shiel is a "hard-running explosive midfielder"?

Cox, Stringer, Setterfield and Parish are "quality mids"?

You have to be ******* joking me.

Cox has managed 11 games in two seasons and averages 12 disposals.

Shiel is almost 31. 12 games and averages 18. Cant make Essendon's best 22.

Settefield 10 games.

This is peak nuffy.

Gresham is not amazing but he shits all over Shiel and is 5 years younger.

Ralph has the taking the piss here.

This is no heist. More like shop lifting from your local milk bar.

Peak nuffy.

Not worth the digital paper it is printed on. Not sure how he can get the storey so wrong

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Ralphy article.

talk is we up the Gresham contract to land the Saints a good pick
we send them Shiel for an overs pick.

Freo in: 13
Saints in: Henry, Shiel
Dons in: Gresham, 21
w/Ess picking up $$ is interesting.

Hey, that's what I posted, is there a new article on it? I am very keen for pick 13

 

[DeezNuts]

Is Jon Ralph an Essendon nuffy?

Has to be the most one sided Essendon nuffy article since peptide-gate.

Shiel is a "hard-running explosive midfielder"?

Cox, Stringer, Setterfield and Parish are "quality mids"?

You have to be ******* joking me.

Cox has managed 11 games in two seasons and averages 12 disposals.

Shiel is almost 31. 12 games and averages 18. Cant make Essendon's best 22.

Settefield 10 games.

This is peak nuffy.

Gresham is not amazing but he shits all over Shiel and is 5 years younger.

Ralph has the taking the piss here.

This is no heist. More like shop lifting from your local milk bar.

Peak nuffy.

Not even Essendon fans would believe any of this lol

 

[tiger_tough]

Is Jon Ralph an Essendon nuffy?

Has to be the most one sided Essendon nuffy article since peptide-gate.

Shiel is a "hard-running explosive midfielder"?

Cox, Stringer, Setterfield and Parish are "quality mids"?

You have to be ******* joking me.

Cox has managed 11 games in two seasons and averages 12 disposals.

Shiel is almost 31. 12 games and averages 18. Cant make Essendon's best 22.

Settefield 10 games.

This is peak nuffy.

Gresham is not amazing but he shits all over Shiel and is 5 years younger.

Ralph has the taking the piss here.

This is no heist. More like shop lifting from your local milk bar.

Peak nuffy.

Hes a Richmond supporter, although you couldn't tell.

 

[stfan]

Realistically for plausible deniability it has to be pick 12.

Step 1: Stkilda trade Pick 12 to Essendon for Dylan Sheil

Sheil? Who is he?

Or do you mean Dylan Shiel?

(Essendon pay his contract say 500k) and maybe a pick of some kind.

That type of trade isn’t a salary dump it’s Stkilda trading for a player that they presumably want and Essendon paying some of his salary to make it better value for the saints.

It’s the same structure as the Tom Mitchell and Brodie Grundie trades last season. No controversy here

Step 2. Essendon then bid on Jade Gresham at a number known to trigger band 1 compo.

St Kilda having lost a FA are awarded band 1 compo and pick 13 to do with what they like.

It’s a fairly simple scenario all things considered. Neither trade can be linked to the other so the AFL has to approve it.

In practice the Saints: Swap Gresham for Liam Henry and turn pick 12 into Sheil + another essendon pick/cap relief.

That’s a much better outcome for them then Henry + 2nd round FA compo pick.

Shiel is past his best. 31 next season.

He became a Sub player in a poor performing Don's team, he is not worth a first or even a second rounder in a straight trade.





Only way the Saint's trade him in is if he is the "Steak Knives" in a deal that is delivering a good young player or mid first young draft pick which for the Saints in the main prize.

The Saints have already declared that they are now focussed on acquiring young players to boost the the young core that they already have. For the Saints Shiel is a disposable player who will only be on a our list for say 2 years. You do not trade mid first round picks

No way will Shiel will be the main value of mid first round draft pick deal.


For the neutrals, if you were to trade for Shiel, what would be fair value?

Essendon get pick 12 for Sheil and separately get Gresham via Free Agency. It’s not that hard.

Just ridiculous though.

What would be in it for St Kilda? Shiel is old and a shadow of what he was.

Everything is fair

But why would St Kilda bother? St Kilda can just keep Pick 12, and just trade FA Compo to Freo for Henry, or another second rounder. Which is way better than what you suggest for St Kilda to do.
And the Dons get to play Shiel in their Reserves all next season.


Or Dons pay Gresh a bit more and St Kilda then trades Shiel for a second rounder. St Kilda gets its FA Compo bumped up, and Dons get a second round pick for a player that no longer has any trade value.

 

[stfan]

Hey, that's what I posted, is there a new article on it? I am very keen for pick 13

Yes fully understand that. But as a serious question what trade value would you estimate that Shiel is actually worth?

 

[DapperDon]

Is Jon Ralph an Essendon nuffy?

Has to be the most one sided Essendon nuffy article since peptide-gate.

Shiel is a "hard-running explosive midfielder"?

Cox, Stringer, Setterfield and Parish are "quality mids"?

You have to be ******* joking me.

Cox has managed 11 games in two seasons and averages 12 disposals.

Shiel is almost 31. 12 games and averages 18. Cant make Essendon's best 22.

Settefield 10 games.

This is peak nuffy.

Gresham is not amazing but he shits all over Shiel and is 5 years younger.

Ralph has the taking the piss here.

This is no heist. More like shop lifting from your local milk bar.

Peak nuffy.

he's a Richmond nuffy, Cox, Shiel and Setterfield were injured this year so counting games is rough. (not claiming they are A grade quality mids, though Shiel was in good form before injury)

Still, funny melt for someone with not supporting either team.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Yes fully understand that. But as a serious question what trade value would you estimate that Shiel is actually worth?

Pick 40 at most? Old but could be a handy addition. Gresham for Henry feels fair. I dont think you are "winning" that trade and maybe Essendon flick you something back but I can see SOS just feeling great about himself for coming with such a clever idea even if everyone else in the trade wins more

 

[eth-dog]

Is Jon Ralph an Essendon nuffy?

Has to be the most one sided Essendon nuffy article since peptide-gate.

Shiel is a "hard-running explosive midfielder"?

Cox, Stringer, Setterfield and Parish are "quality mids"?

You have to be ******* joking me.

Cox has managed 11 games in two seasons and averages 12 disposals.

Shiel is almost 31. 12 games and averages 18. Cant make Essendon's best 22.

Settefield 10 games.

This is peak nuffy.

Gresham is not amazing but he shits all over Shiel and is 5 years younger.

Ralph has the taking the piss here.

This is no heist. More like shop lifting from your local milk bar.

Peak nuffy.

He hates us but nice rant.

 

[MickG88]

Rather keep Gresham as we have Crouch who is a better player than Shiels.

It is absolutely delusional to think Shiel is worthless. He would walk into the Saints midfield and make that team stronger immediately.

The scenario is simple.

Essendon agree to pay Gresham the salary that nets Saints band 1 compo.

Saints net pick 13.

Essendon send Shiel to the Saints for pick 13 and likely covering most of his salary.

The only reason pick 13 exists in this scenario is because Essendon agree to wear the salary and thus trigger band 1. Otherwise, Saints likely to get band 2 or 3 compo and a pick in the 30's or 40's.

Sure they can match, and Essendon could just walk away and Saints keep a player on overs who doesn't really want to be there.

Effectively, instead of Saints getting a pick in the 30's or 40's as compo for Gresham, they are getting Shiel.

It is a good deal for both clubs. Biggest winner is Gresham.

 

[jdstorm]

Sheil? Who is he?

Or do you mean Dylan Shiel?


Shiel is past his best. 31 next season.

He became a Sub player in a poor performing Don's team, he is not worth a first or even a second rounder in a straight trade.

View attachment 1813438



Only way the Saint's trade him in is if he is the "Steak Knives" in a deal that is delivering a good young player or mid first young draft pick which for the Saints in the main prize.

The Saints have already declared that they are now focussed on acquiring young players to boost the the young core that they already have. For the Saints Shiel is a disposable player who will only be on a our list for say 2 years. You do not trade mid first round picks

No way will Shiel will be the main value of mid first round draft pick deal.


For the neutrals, if you were to trade for Shiel, what would be fair value?




Just ridiculous though.

What would be in it for St Kilda? Shiel is old and a shadow of what he was.




But why would St Kilda bother? St Kilda can just keep Pick 12, and just trade FA Compo to Freo for Henry, or another second rounder. Which is way better than what you suggest for St Kilda to do.
And the Dons get to play Shiel in their Reserves all next season.


Or Dons pay Gresh a bit more and St Kilda then trades Shiel for a second rounder. St Kilda gets its FA Compo bumped up, and Dons get a second round pick for a player that no longer has any trade value.

Sheil was a sub because he was injured. He was the odd Mid out for Essendon in the sense that they couldn’t play him, Merrett and Parish together. But he played at HF and still did okay.

For those keeping score at home both those players (Merrett and Parish) have made the AA team and both are in their prime. Sheil was still pretty good when he got mid time, but due to list balance issues he got pushed out

He’s still a pretty good player and he’s on a 1 year contract and keeps in good enough shape that he likely has 3-4 years left

Now what’s his trade value?

at 700k (his actual salary) I think Essendon would probably have to give up an asset. Maybe a 2nd or 3rd rd pick

At 400k (Essendon pay 300k) I’d say it’s probably pretty neutral as in teams would take him on and give a token 4th rd pick back.

At $0 (Essendon pay full 700k) which means whoever gets him is given an extra 400k (or whatever a fair contract for Sheils performance is worth) to spend on their list.

You can do the math on what the afl thinks a draft point is worth and go from there.

if we want to be specific. Say 600k = band 2 = end of first round. Pick 18/19 is worth about 1200 points that means 1 draft point is worth about $500.

So if Dylan Sheil produces 400k worth of value he’s worth about 800 draft points or pick 32. (Which is roughly what St Kilda would get as band 3 compo for Jade Gresham)

Now for every $500 Essendon pay on his contract that’s 1 extra points worth as it opens up that cap space for St kilda to spend on another player.

So if Essendon pay Sheils full contract he should be worth around 1600 draft points which is around pick 10

Coincidently that’s roughly the deal proposed Dylan Sheil at $0 for pick 13

 

[bird_man]

Sheil was a sub because he was injured. He was the odd Mid out for Essendon in the sense that they couldn’t play him, Merrett and Parish together. But he played at HF and still did okay.

For those keeping score at home both those players (Merrett and Parish) have made the AA team and both are in their prime. Sheil was still pretty good when he got mid time, but due to list balance issues he got pushed out

He’s still a pretty good player and he’s on a 1 year contract and keeps in good enough shape that he likely has 3-4 years left

Now what’s his trade value?

at 700k (his actual salary) I think Essendon would probably have to give up an asset. Maybe a 2nd or 3rd rd pick

At 400k (Essendon pay 300k) I’d say it’s probably pretty neutral as in teams would take him on and give a token 4th rd pick back.

At $0 (Essendon pay full 700k) which means whoever gets him is given an extra 400k (or whatever a fair contract for Sheils performance is worth) to spend on their list.

You can do the math on what the afl thinks a draft point is worth and go from there.

if we want to be specific. Say 600k = band 2 = end of first round. Pick 18/19 is worth about 1200 points that means 1 draft point is worth about $500.

So if Dylan Sheil produces 400k worth of value he’s worth about 800 draft points or pick 32. (Which is roughly what St Kilda would get as band 3 compo for Jade Gresham)

Now for every $500 Essendon pay on his contract that’s 1 extra points worth as it opens up that cap space for St kilda to spend on another player.

So if Essendon pay Sheils full contract he should be worth around 1600 draft points which is around pick 10

Coincidently that’s roughly the deal proposed Dylan Sheil at $0 for pick 13

FMD what rot

 

[citizen-erased]

Hey, that's what I posted, is there a new article on it? I am very keen for pick 13

I stole your idea

I like it

 

[MickG88]

Hey, that's what I posted, is there a new article on it? I am very keen for pick 13

How do Fremantle get pick 13? Did I miss something?

 

[MickG88]

But we got both Carlisle and Gresham out of that deal.

Saints fans in 2016: "Pick 5 will never end up at Essendon"

*sidenote, I agree mostly that this trade scenario is stupid and won't eventuate

 

[#1_pigeonracer]

But we got both Carlisle and Gresham out of that deal.

Vs. Neckbeard, Bird (and his contract) and Alex Morgan.

Hell will freeze over before any Essendon supporter ever mentions the Gresham aspect of the deal.

Arguably, perhaps Adrian Dodoro's greatest legacy is that most Don's fans continue to blindly feel they won the deal because of the P5 aspect.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

The stupid and dumb thing about this whole scenario is the club who need him the most and would want him the most in North Melbourne cant get him because of some absurdly weird rule that means they wont get pick 3 if they get him due to that whole free agent diluting s**t which is absurd and weird.

Basically now he has to trot along to what is the 2nd best situation for him

 

[Bad Seed]

Is Jon Ralph an Essendon nuffy?

Has to be the most one sided Essendon nuffy article since peptide-gate.

Shiel is a "hard-running explosive midfielder"?

Cox, Stringer, Setterfield and Parish are "quality mids"?

You have to be ******* joking me.

Cox has managed 11 games in two seasons and averages 12 disposals.

Shiel is almost 31. 12 games and averages 18. Cant make Essendon's best 22.

Settefield 10 games.

This is peak nuffy.

Gresham is not amazing but he shits all over Shiel and is 5 years younger.

Ralph has the taking the piss here.

This is no heist. More like shop lifting from your local milk bar.

Peak nuffy.

This is the post of someone who actually has no ******* idea about Essendon.

Shiel has been injured this year genius, and before that was clearly best 22 and playing very well.

Cox has been injured for 2 years and just came back at the end of the season. He's not a gun but he's a kid.

Setterfield also injured for half the year and played great footy before that.

Gresham shits all over Shiel lol. He has achieved maybe a toenail of what Shiel has during his career, and even that isn't much.1

Another deluded nuffie who is exposing his lack of football intelligence. Stick to spitting out rubbish about your own club.

 

[Bad Seed]

All the boneheads in this thread need to understand one thing.

This highly sought after pick 13 doesn't exist unless Essendon make it exist. This only happens because we offer a stupid contract to Gresham.

We have absolutely no need to move Shiel on. Gresham is a free agent and will trigger Band 3 compo at best. He is an average footballer who even Saints fans don't want, and likewise most Essendon fans.

If the Saints want to match an offer, he stays with everyone's blessing.