Free Agency Jade Gresham [Joins Essendon as RFA]

Does he stay or does he go?

  • Total voters
    107
  • Poll closed .

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Shiel isnt the worse guy to grab if his body is ok

It always depends what your willing to sell to get him

Imo Melbourne should be targetting him. Hes different to Viney, Oliver and Trac. Harmes and Jordan noise is real about leaving, Brayshaw concerns about him going on or one more hit away. Dees right in the window

Weve seen how well some of these older guys keep going (Boak, Mundy, Pendles, Sidebottom, Ward, Shuey ect)

Shiel did play 19 games the year before

Foot injuries can be career ending or nothing, the range is large
 

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Sarcoidevo said:
A busted up broken 31yo Shiel on a million $ backended contract is worth a mid 2nd?

goodfellas-henry-hill.gif
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He's probably on 650k next year dude. We brought his money forward the last few years.

But sure, "1 million"
 
Bjchan13 said:
He's not on a million dollar back ended contract though. And SOS wants him. He has a year left at 800 with us. Saints will offer 2 years minimum.
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He's on less next year. We brought money forward to make the floor the last couple of years
 
botts said:
Lyon has said we want to go to the draft for a long time. DYOR champ
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Research like having to explain to every Saints supporter that we don’t need to clear cap space?

That’s OK Turbo, I’ll let you get yourself all worked up over a purely hypothetical trade.
 
Duckworth said:
Research like having to explain to every Saints supporter that we don’t need to clear cap space?

That’s OK Turbo, I’ll let you get yourself all worked up over a purely hypothetical trade.
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Like having to explain to every Bombers supporter that we aren't going to collude with you so you can get another first round draft pick in return for us getting a busted up over the hill 31yo on a huge contract

Unless there is something very nice and advantageous coming back our way it ain't gunna happen
 

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Snuffaluphagus said:
Id trust a politician while campaigning more than I would any public comments from a club on its list and preferences. Whatever they say is irrelevant. I personally would be gobsmacked if St Kilda use a pick 13 no matter how it’s generated on Shiel, it would be completely stupid but I don’t doubt SOS thinks there is value in getting him and rates him a lot higher than supporters
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There's also the part where SOS and Dodoro are pretty good mates who like to get one over on each other, competitive as well as respecting each other.
 
Sarcoidevo said:
Like having to explain to every Bombers supporter that we aren't going to collude with you so you can get another first round draft pick in return for us getting a busted up over the hill 31yo on a huge contract

Unless there is something very nice and advantageous coming back our way it ain't gunna happen
Click to expand...

Are you just copy and pasting “busted up 31 year old”? I think your contribution to this thread could be replaced by a ChatBot.
 
Saints In: Pick 4, F3 (Ess) and Shiel
Saints Out: Pick 13(Gresham), F1, 31, 50

Ess In: Pick 13, F1 (Saints)
Ess Out: 27, Shiel, 46, F1, F3

GC In: F1 (Ess), 27, 31, 46, 50
GC Out: Pick 4

Makes too much sense
 
botts said:
We wouldn’t. Essendon won’t expect that. They get a late pick and we take shiels contract. It’s pretty simple
Click to expand...

This theme that essendon needs his contract off our books is pure fantasy. We have millions in cap space available. MILLIONS.

We aren't pushing Dylan Shiel out of our club. He is being pursued by another club.

Fans may not like it, but the Saints hierarchy clearly see value in what Shiel can offer. And they aren't wrong. A plodding one-paced midfield needs an explosive player like Shiel. He walks straight into your centre bounce group, and is one of the best centre clearance players in the comp. He had an injury interrupted year, but he's an absolute pro and there is no reason he doesn't get back to that. He will be a loss for Essendon.

The real thick heads in this thread need to understand one thing. Essendon is not in the game of triggering a band 1 compo for St Kilda to just keep it. Why on earth would we do that? And don't say it's to get Shiel off our books, because that is just not necessary for where our salary cap is at. Think about it.

I would expect Gresham will trigger band 3 compo, a pick in the 30's and Saints may/may not match. I would also expect Essendon to walk away from any deal that would require a trade. So he is a very live chance to stay. And I don't reckon many Essendon fans would lose one wink over it.
 
Sarcoidevo said:
Like having to explain to every Bombers supporter
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Okay so everything after that statement is supposed to be your belief about what is true, I suppose..?
Sarcoidevo said:
that we aren't going to collude with you
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It's not collusion if you do it properly.
Sarcoidevo said:
so you can get another first round draft pick in return for us getting a busted up over the hill 31yo
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another? What busted up over the hill 31 year old did we last trade to you for a first round draft pick?

Also, you sound like you're the one who is struggling to reconcile your understanding of Shiel's longevity with the potential of your club having interest in him.

If Essendon thought he was done we'd be pushing him into retirement rather than a trade (wouldn't be the first time we retired someone under contract – done it twice in the last two years). We're obviously capable of absorbing his contract, so what difference does it make to us whether he plays for you or in the EDFL? In fact the EDFL would be preferable as then he wouldn't be making an opponent better.

And if St Kilda thought he was done there wouldn't be a deal either, they'd do the medical and walk away. If he passes the medical then he'll go for the agreed price, if not, it won't be worth the list spot and you can forget the future 5th round pick.
Sarcoidevo said:
on a huge contract
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If you only read headlines, you'd think it was Shiel for pick 13 in a straight swap. But the more likely thing is that Essendon is paying some salary otherwise that deal wouldn't be signed off. You'd end up paying him somewhere around average wage for a player who plays at least one game, so probably less than you'd have been paying Gresham if he stayed.
Sarcoidevo said:
Unless there is something very nice and advantageous coming back our way it ain't gunna happen
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In this scenario, you'd most likely have a pick or a player coming back with Shiel. imo it probably gets wound up in the Liam Henry trade, so you get Henry and Shiel for pick 13 and a good deal on the salary situation. Who actually gets 13 idk, probably Essendon gets Freo's early 2nd round pick/s.
 
Bad Seed said:
This theme that essendon needs his contract off our books is pure fantasy. We have millions in cap space available. MILLIONS.

We aren't pushing Dylan Shiel out of our club. He is being pursued by another club.

Fans may not like it, but the Saints hierarchy clearly see value in what Shiel can offer. And they aren't wrong. A plodding one-paced midfield needs an explosive player like Shiel. He walks straight into your centre bounce group, and is one of the best centre clearance players in the comp. He had an injury interrupted year, but he's an absolute pro and there is no reason he doesn't get back to that. He will be a loss for Essendon.

The real thick heads in this thread need to understand one thing. Essendon is not in the game of triggering a band 1 compo for St Kilda to just keep it. Why on earth would we do that? And don't say it's to get Shiel off our books, because that is just not necessary for where our salary cap is at. Think about it.

I would expect Gresham will trigger band 3 compo, a pick in the 30's and Saints may/may not match. I would also expect Essendon to walk away from any deal that would require a trade. So he is a very live chance to stay. And I don't reckon many Essendon fans would lose one wink over it.
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Did Shiel or Dorodo tell you that? Or have you decided that because it suits your narrative that Essendon deserve pick 13 for him?

No one has any idea what this deal is, who is pushing for it or if it is even real. Essendon could be pushing him out for all we know. A few vague reports from Jon Ralph and Edmund isn't enough for everyone to suddenly claim they know what the inner workings of their club is pushing for.
 
BrutThough said:
Did Shiel or Dorodo tell you that? Or have you decided that because it suits your narrative that Essendon deserve pick 13 for him?

No one has any idea what this deal is, who is pushing for it or if it is even real. Essendon could be pushing him out for all we know. A few vague reports from Jon Ralph and Edmund isn't enough for everyone to suddenly claim they know what the inner workings of their club is pushing for.
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Most likely is that he's looking to play in a flag.
Sarcoidevo said:
Interesting re: Bombers salary cap situation ..... we are constantly hearing they have 2 million in SC space but that was before signing Redman, Parish & Wright to larger contracts and now if McKay & Gresham come on board that space takes another big hit (very likely the 2 million gone) ...... the more interesting part being that Essendon have 23 players coming out of contract at the end of next year some of who will want bigger contracts

AFL Out of Contract Players in 2024

Yet we keep getting told by Essendon supporters that they don't need to get rid of the Shiel contract to free up space

I cant imagine that Nic Martin and co will be happy to stay on the same money they are on now

Very reasonable to say Essendon are in SC trouble with these new contracts and the other players they will need to sign up next year
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As I told you in the Shiel thread, you're full of s**t.

The 2 mill was reported after Wright signed
Parish is basically on the same money as before
Redman would be looking at a 100-150k bump

We don't need to. You're wrong. Dig up, stupid.
 
eth-dog said:
Most likely is that he's looking to play in a flag.

As I told you in the Shiel thread, you're full of s**t.

The 2 mill was reported after Wright signed
Parish is basically on the same money as before
Redman would be looking at a 100-150k bump

We don't need to. You're wrong. Dig up, stupid.
Click to expand...
No it was reported in July 2022 that Essendon had 2 million in cap space and Wright signed a 4 year extension this year (2023) with Gold Coast now not paying any of his old contract starting from now ..... so that's 500k or more

Parish would be on more than his last contract ..... Redman on more

McKay 800k minimum ...... Gresham 600k minimum

That's 2 million gone whether you want to believe it or not
 
Cliffs:
  • Deal 1: Free Agency for Gresham:
    • Essendon get Gresham & St Kilda gets Band 1 (pick 13) OR Band 2 (pick 19)
    • Gresham is currently on 600k per year, would need 750k per year over 3 years for Band 1
    • Essendon's motivation is to ensure St Kilda does not match. AFL can’t intervene to tell clubs they are over-paying talent.
  • Deal 2: Trade for Shiel:
    • Possibility that St Kilda gets an extra first rounder and are willing to hand over a "quality pick" for Shiel
      • "Quality pick" might be the Gresham compensation pick "or something close to it"
    • St Kilda "stiffen up their midfield", previously identified as a need by Ross Lyon. AFL can't tell St Kilda that Shiel is not what they need given Ross Lyon has spent the year talking about adding A-grade class to his onball unit then lost a final to a deeper, more talented midfield
    • "win win for both parties" Essendon "free up salary cap" to pay for free agents, "bolster draft hand", add to "forward line potency". Shiel is open to moving on from Essendon.
  • "Completely legal", "doesn’t bend or break the rules" because there is a "win-win component to the separate transactions". Ralph cites other loopholes exploited by clubs and ticked off by the AFL;
    • salary dump trades, e.g., Bowes, $1.6m over 2 years & pick 7 to Geelong & paid over 4 years
    • mid-season rookies nominating salary, e.g., Newcombe's 30-month @ $170k/season to get to Hawthorn's 2nd pick
    • bidding up contracts & trading with Gold Coast still paying some salary, e.g., Gold Coast's Brodie & Scrimshaw
    • live pick trading, e.g., Sydney live trading their pick, matching a bid on Blakey, then trading back in
  • Sources:
    • Rival list managers have been referenced as the source of the broad outline of the deal
    • Ralph tried to ask Essendon and St Kilda, but both are "tight-lipped"
    • Ralph believes Shiel will leave Essendon & Shiel is aware of interest, but doesn't cite Shiel's manager.
      • Shiel's management is shopping him to multiple clubs and one of those rival list managers told Ralph
    • Lyon didn't deny it but refuses to provide any detail.
Original article from 22 September:
COULD SHIEL BE PART OF GRESHAM DEAL?

The recruiting world is abuzz with anticipation about whether St Kilda can find a way to secure first-round compensation for free agent Jade Gresham.

It comes with speculation Essendon’s Dylan Shiel could also be on the move as St Kilda attempts to bolster its midfield.

As a free agent Gresham is not worth the $750,000 he would need to be paid over three seasons to trigger first-round compensation.

But one avenue open to Essendon is to pay him that amount to ensure St Kilda does not match a free agency bid on him and keep him at Moorabbin.


Separately, the Dons might decide to free up salary cap space on a deal for Shiel given they have a midfield that already includes Darcy Parish, Zach Merrett, Jake Stringer, Elijah Tsatas, Will Setterfield, Jye Caldwell, Nic Martin and Ben Hobbs.

They could secure a trade with St Kilda, who would have an extra first-rounder through the Gresham compensation and be willing to hand over a quality pick for Shiel.

Essendon might believe securing a high pick for Shiel to bolster its draft hand while adding forward line potency with mid-forward Gresham as a free agent takes their list forward next year.

It would be a win-win for both parties, but clearly the AFL would need to approve both deals as fair value.

Some rivals believe the league would approve that kind of arrangement as the latest version of the Jack Bowes salary dump which advantaged Geelong and Gold Coast.

You couldn’t fault St Kilda for trying something inventive as recruiters Steve Silvagni and Graeme Allan attempt to improve the club’s list.
Click to expand...

And here's the newest bit from the Herald Sun article 25 September which adds some more detail and context:
Saints, Dons can expose trade loophole in footy’s ultimate heist

St Kilda and Essendon can team up to pull off the greatest trade-free agency heist the AFL has ever seen. And here’s the kicker – it is completely legal. This is how it can happen.

By using over 100 years of accumulated football wisdom to take advantage of AFL rules that have always had loopholes big enough to drive a bus through.

As an AFL trade period potentially short on massive names hots up, St Kilda and Essendon have at least considered the kind of trade-free agency heist never pulled off in the league before.

Both clubs are tight-lipped on the details but one way a deal could be orchestrated – sending Jade Gresham to Essendon and Dylan Shiel to St Kilda – would be a masterful arrangement benefiting both parties.

It would make use of the fact free agency compensation is a ridiculous concept open to manipulation.

Here are the bare bones of what rival recruiters suspect St Kilda recruiters Graeme Allan and Stephen Silvagni might be cooking up with Essendon’s Adrian Dodoro.

St Kilda wants to stiffen its midfield and is very prepared to let go of mid-forward Jade Gresham so believes Dylan Shiel is a person of interest.

Essendon already has eight quality mids (Zach Merrett, Darcy Parish, Jake Stringer, Nic Martin, Jye Caldwell, Will Setterfield, Archie Perkins, Nik Cox) and needs some cap space relief as it considers a free agency triple play of Gresham, Ben McKay and Todd Goldstein.

So Essendon ensures the salary it pays for Gresham is enough to provide St Kilda with either first-round or end-of-first-round free agency.

Given Gresham is already well-paid – above $600,000 a season – the free agency premium to move clubs is significant and the CBA is going up 31 per cent.

So there is nothing to stop them paying him $750,000 a year in a free agency period where McKay will get similar rates despite being injury-prone and inconsistent.

St Kilda gets a first-round pick (selection 13) or end-of-first-round (pick 19) as free agency compensation for Gresham.

Then a week later in the trade period they hand that pick or something close to it back to Essendon for Dylan Shiel.

Why would Essendon do that deal?

Because Essendon effectively turns Shiel, 31 in March, into 25-year-old Ben McKay, and finds the salary cap room to pay the fullback they so desperately need.

Not only that, but they get a quality draft pick for Shiel (either first-round or end-of-first-round).

They also get Gresham as a bargain, who isn’t the steak knives element of the deal but has upside as a 26-year-old that could make a solid contribution.

St Kilda loses a player it didn’t really want in Gresham – he has averaged less than a goal a game across every one of his eight seasons except 2017 and 2018.

They lose Gresham’s salary commitment.

And in essence they turn a flighty half forward in Gresham into Shiel, a hard-running explosive midfielder who was ranked in the top 10 mids in the comp in round nine before a procession of niggling injuries.

At 30 he might be the perfect bridging midfielder to help Jack Steele and Brad Crouch given Nasiah Wanganeen-Mileaa, Mattaes Phillipou and Mitch Owens are all brilliant talents but perhaps not pure inside mids yet.

A Shiel move out of Essendon is definitely on the cards – he is aware of the interest – and if the Dons and St Kilda aren’t considering exactly that kind of deal someone else should use the same loophole in coming seasons.

It is only the latest extension of clever exploitation of the AFL’s rules.

We have seen Geelong capitalising on the Suns’ Jack Bowes salary dump last year, then immediately turning his two-year $1.6 million contract into a four-year deal they could fit into the cap.

We have seen Hawthorn attempting to drag Jai Newcombe through the 2021 mid-season draft as their second selection with a 30-month deal of $170,000 a season until the attention forced them to use their first pick.

We have seen clubs driving up contracts on Gold Coast teens with strong offers, then dragging them out anyway (Will Brodie, Jack Scrimshaw), sometimes with the Suns paying part of their wage bill.

We have seen Sydney using the trading of live picks in 2018 to trade out their draft selection, then match a bid on Nick Blakey, then trade back into the draft to preserve a second-round pick.

It’s only a rort if you aren’t in on it, so the saying goes.

But this doesn’t bend or break the rules because in this scenario there is such a win-win component to the separate transactions.

Clubs are asked by the AFL when lodging trades if the deal is linked to another impending trade.

But free agency starts on Friday week — separate to the trade period — and Essendon can pay Gresham whatever they want.

The AFL can’t intervene to tell clubs they are over-paying talent, otherwise the Jared Polec to North Melbourne deal or so many other disastrous trades wouldn’t have happened.

And how can the AFL tell St Kilda that Shiel is not exactly what they need given Ross Lyon has spent the year talking about adding A-grade class to his onball unit then lost a final to a deeper, more talented midfield.

So we will wait and see what these clubs are cooking and whether a deal along these lines comes to pass.

Once upon a time clubs blatantly broke rules and cheated the salary cap to gain an advantage on their rivals.

Now they must scheme and plot and take advantage of the league’s loopholes within the rules, which would make a piece of scally-waggerery like this even more satisfying to pull off.
Click to expand...

Ross Lyon not denying it, but it clearly wasn't leaked by the Saints either, at least as far as he's concerned:
In terms of the playing list, Lyon was asked whether he’d spoken to reported St Kilda trade target Dylan Shiel.

While Lyon didn’t deny that the club was interested in the Don, he refused to admit any talks had happened and pondered where the noise of a potential move had come from.

“Well as a club, we don't sort of conduct our business in the media,” Lyon said.

“There's a lot of noise around it.

“I know he missed the last 10 rounds with quite a few injuries.

“It (the noise) certainly wasn't generated from us.

“So I'm not sure where that's all come from, to be honest.”

Shiel played 12 games in 2023 but was the activated substitute on two occasions. He missed much of the back end of the season with a foot injury.
Click to expand...

Lyon comments on Shiel links, says “ship has sailed” to bring McQualter to St Kilda

“There's a lot of noise around it.”
www.sen.com.au www.sen.com.au
 
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