List Mgmt. List Management Discussion for 2021

[Billyc]

So I am really hopeful, once we move Mitchell, that we can see a Parish style jump in year five for Worpel. Entering this year, Worpel, a year younger, looked more promising than Parish. Shiel goes out, Parish gets the responsibility and role that he craved, and boom, he's currently and All-Australian at this point.

We had Worpel, win a best and fairest at 20, who looked like anything, and then with Mitchell back he has regressed dramatically. I still think he has a huge jump in him, when we get back to making him a critical part of our midfield set-up.

Agree. His talent cannot have disappeared at such a young age. The difference is his role. Right now we are similar to the Crows last year persevering week after week with
Sloane and the Crouch brothers. Too many of the same type and they reduce each other’s effectiveness. Worpel is the youngest of our mid-sized inside mids and he is the one to prioritise moving forward. Even if he just gets back to his 2019 level he can be an excellent long-term midfielder for us. Give him the bull role, surround him with quality ball users and watch him thrive for years

 

[MrPremiership]

What is the relationship between Clarko and Mitchell like these days?

Mitchell leaves Perth with 2 years left on a contract to come back to Hawks. I'd say that has everything to do with Clarko and their relationship. Can't see it having gone bad since

 

[Big Hotdog]

What is the relationship between Clarko and Mitchell like these days?

Not sure but Clarko's answers the question around a handover to perfection. Mentioning that we have other exciting prospective senior coaches who are also completing their apprenticeship. Highlights that the best preparation to enter a senior coaching role is the preferred model to enjoy success.

Hopefully Sam agree's but I am sure that their will be enquiries and offers from other clubs to join their coaching structures along the way. I would love to see Sam win a VFL flag with a bunch of our young'ns and then follow through with them to seniors which is likely still 2-3 years away.

Patience is not something that many at the top level possess.

 

[chopflop]

One more fact mate in your witch hunting - the whole club is responsible for where we are, but the head coach always ends up wearing it, always. So just have patience, or you should have got off your arse away from the keyboard and started gathering support for a rival ticket four years ago. It's so simple.

Kinda underselling equalisation. The house always wins. I.e., AFL always wins and dynasties are bad for business

 

[Brishawk]

So I am really hopeful, once we move Mitchell, that we can see a Parish style jump in year five for Worpel. Entering this year, Worpel, a year younger, looked more promising than Parish. Shiel goes out, Parish gets the responsibility and role that he craved, and boom, he's currently and All-Australian at this point.

We had Worpel, win a best and fairest at 20, who looked like anything, and then with Mitchell back he has regressed dramatically. I still think he has a huge jump in him, when we get back to making him a critical part of our midfield set-up.

Correlation does not equal causation.

 

[H00t]

Correlation does not equal causation.

Worpel or Parish? Because Parish has shown his stuff by getting extra midfield time.

Worpel can’t show his stuff because he gets little midfield time. And every time he does get that time he often plays really well. Saints and eagles games plus dogs in the preseason.

 

[Suntory Boss Coffee]

Kinda underselling equalisation. The house always wins. I.e., AFL always wins and dynasties are bad for business

I mean you can write that but I didn't see us getting kissed on the dick with fixturing ala Richmond during our threepeat years. In fact, I remember the first 7 rounds of one year were against the rest of the top 8 from the year before. A Richmond dynasty is good for AFL house because rain, hail, or shine, they turn up in droves and make the AFL a lot of money. Our supporters, not so much.

 

[Hawk Dork]

I mean you can write that but I didn't see us getting kissed on the dick with fixturing ala Richmond during our threepeat years. In fact, I remember the first 7 rounds of one year were against the rest of the top 8 from the year before. A Richmond dynasty is good for AFL house because rain, hail, or shine, they turn up in droves and make the AFL a lot of money. Our supporters, not so much.

Same with the Cats
Tough draws the following year really only came in for us
and still havent changed much when we havent been so good

 

[bris tarangau]

I mean you can write that but I didn't see us getting kissed on the dick with fixturing ala Richmond during our threepeat years. In fact, I remember the first 7 rounds of one year were against the rest of the top 8 from the year before. A Richmond dynasty is good for AFL house because rain, hail, or shine, they turn up in droves and make the AFL a lot of money. Our supporters, not so much.

We have a lot of work to do then

 

[Brishawk]

Worpel or Parish? Because Parish has shown his stuff by getting extra midfield time.

Worpel can’t show his stuff because he gets little midfield time. And every time he does get that time he often plays really well. Saints and eagles games plus dogs in the preseason.

Worpel. Mitchell took a back seat in the first six rounds. All his contested were well down because he was sitting outside of our preferred inside contested players. We played Phillips and shiels more through the centre. Now shiels and Phillips mostly play on the wing. So it wasn’t Mitchell crowding out Worpel and it wasn’t him spending less time in the middle than last year that saw him playing poorly. He just wasn’t adapting to being accountable to his opponent.

people love seeing Worpel dive in and winning the ball but he does so while leaving his opponents outside the contest and ready to get the ball when it spills out. Worpel has really improved that aspect of his game, making better choices about when to stay and when to go. His numbers did increase with omeara going out as you would expect but also Worpel has improved his judgment. Still has work to do but don’t underestimate how much improvement he required in this regard. He was a defensive liability for us last year.

 

[The Chad and I]

Gutting the list would not be short term pain for long term gain.
It would be long term pain with no end in sight.
It would take 6-8 years to rebuild the character of the team from scratch.

Take a look at the teams that went with all/mostly youth to rebuild...multiple attempts, rare success.

 

[chopflop]

I mean you can write that but I didn't see us getting kissed on the dick with fixturing ala Richmond during our threepeat years. In fact, I remember the first 7 rounds of one year were against the rest of the top 8 from the year before. A Richmond dynasty is good for AFL house because rain, hail, or shine, they turn up in droves and make the AFL a lot of money. Our supporters, not so much.

In the sense of the whole club being responsible for where we are, you can't overlook the main variable being equalisation. To put it all on the people at Hawthorn is not a fair representation of how we participate in the system that affords us certain constraints. You can go up to a roulette table and hit it lucky against the odds multiple times in a row, but no matter who spins the ball, where and how fast, the outcome is that you lose more than you win. This is equalisation. Can't scapegoat the players (the club) for losing in a game where the odds are stacked against sustained success. The reason we have been so successful is that unlike roulette, there are variables in our control that our good judgement can help us beat the odds. But the game is never conquered. Fixturing gripes are just white noise for mine. We should be focusing on the variables we can control and not expecting s**t from the system or the AFL

 

[JaegarTime]

Think young Pepper has something to offer. When played as a forward for Box Hill he actually really pressured, hassled and outworked his opponents I thought. Has some skill and his pace is nice.

Obviously depending on how we draft but things can turn around quickly. Look at Port just a few years ago or even Essendon now, they’re on the up because the youth they brought in has reinvigorated the team.

I am in the trade Mitchell camp, I won’t be upset if he stays but think it’s probably the best move at the moment. Also need to get a new midfield coach.

Lastly, Monky is great to have around the team and seems like a genuinely good person but I think we need to refresh there too. Caracella might be the option after Clarko, not opposed to Sammy but the favourite son thing is always a bit hit and miss.

 

[BurnaHawks]

Report: Brownlow Medallist open to a trade

Could he be on the move?

www.sen.com.au

Richmond for pick 12 or 15? Thoughts?

 

[Bugs1977]

Report: Brownlow Medallist open to a trade

Could he be on the move?

www.sen.com.au

Richmond for pick 12 or 15? Thoughts?

Mitchell + pick 21 for picks 12 + 17

 

[theiaofseed]

Report: Brownlow Medallist open to a trade

Could he be on the move?

www.sen.com.au

Richmond for pick 12 or 15? Thoughts?

Not here to do any favour for Richmond, pick 12 or 15 isn't enough. They want to chase more flags they can pony up the picks.

 

[DeafHawk]

Mitchell + pick 21 for picks 12 + 17

Possibility..
Few tigers midfielders injury prone

 

[I got the outside word]

Would Mitchell plus we pay a massive chunk of his salary for a couple of years for Richmonds two firsts work?

 

[QuietB]

Geelong also a good home - have they got any picks left?

 

[Bardo State]

Would Mitchell plus we pay a massive chunk of his salary for a couple of years for Richmonds two firsts work?

Maybe if Mitchell was 24 but he'll be 29 next season. One first round pick and some haggling over change, salary, maybe a fringe player would be best for both clubs. 2 firsts or a top 5 pick is a fantasy at Mitchell's age.

 

[BurnaHawks]

I think a fair trade would be. Mitchell and salary for a couple of years, Maybe $400k per year. In exchange for Richmond Pick 12 and Sydney Stack.

 

[Kuuz]

I just posted this on the Richmond Trade Talk page. It’s gone into meltdown. Lol

‘Heard a rumour Hawthorn are talking about paying 400k per year of Mitchells contract for 3 years. Hawthorn receive Pick 12 and 15 from Richmond. Richmond get Mitchell and Hawks Pick 22’.

General thought are on there is they’ll give one first rounder and we pay a big chunk of his wage, that’s it. lol

I like it. Wage capacity is the one thing we will have plenty of for next few years as we re-develop the list. It's something the Tigers need.

We basically on-trade some of our wage capacity for picks, which is our core need.

Further, with Mitchell at the age of 28, I really can't see teams paying more than a mid first round pick for him, so I feel this would be a nice trade, albeit speculative.

 

[Big Hotdog]

I think a fair trade would be. Mitchell and salary for a couple of years, Maybe $400k per year. In exchange for Richmond Pick 12 and Sydney Stack.

Not sure if serious?

 

[matey]

Fck Richmond Mitchell is also opened to other Melbourne clubs that are approaching a premiership window. If the club and Mitchell are looking at a trade, a Melbourne auction is much better for us compared to a player with a go home factor to a state that only has two teams.

 

[KermitJagger]

Fck Richmond Mitchell is also opened to other Melbourne clubs that are approaching a premiership window. If the club and Mitchell are looking at a trade, a Melbourne auction is much better for us compared to a player with a go home factor to a state that only has two teams.

Mitchell is a worryingly good match with Dusty. Mitchell is a prime extractor and link up player with a high work rate and endurance, and Dusty is the perfect bloke to be on the end of that extraction and the fact that Mitchell can work so hard for so long in the clinches means that Dusty can play more outside and rest more forward.

Richmond would know this and would pay a large amount for him.