no, that was what Richmond gave up for himPrestia
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no, that was what Richmond gave up for himPrestia
From memory someone did the sums and if we bid on Green we still ended up with a deficit of about 205?
Just sticking this here so that I don't have to keep recalculating it, especially as it gets closer to the draft. Thought some of you may be interested.
The deficit is 265. We don't actually know what happens if it is pick 1 but that obviously isn't an issue anymore.
Original Pick (Pts) Pick after Deficit (Pts)
1 (3000) 2 (2735)
2 (2517) 3 (2252)
3 (2234) 5 (1969)
4 (2034) 6 (1769)
5 (1878) 8 (1613)
6 (1751) 9 (1486)
7 (1644) 11 (1379)
8 (1551) 12 (1286)
9 (1469) 14 (1204)
10 (1395) 15 (1130)
The club saying stuff like that is about creating the perception that the players selected were their favoured selections. Its just another variation of what you were talking about with the dont-bid-early-when-you-think-the-oppo-will-match tactic....
Our recruitment team has already said they still would have picked Young if they had pick #3. And similarly rated Serong that high.
We picked four guns from four picks last year, its the sort of draft might set us up for a premiership down the track.
Couldn't give a stuff if it means falling from pick 8 to 12 or whatever if that's what it took to bring those guys in.
I'm sure Freo and all the clubs will learn from what happened but whether many clubs want to use that tactic simply as a spoiler technique I'm not sure. Carlton did at least want Henry at that pick.
I've run out of time at the moment but this is where I'm up to, counting backwards from last season:Can I throw into the mix - aren't we the club that has bid the most number of times on NGA/Father Sons since the ability to do so came in? If so, can this be extended to an argument that if we thought they were worth it we would have bid etc.
It is the reason we pushed ourselves up the order because we believed Henry was going to be bid on before our original 2nd pick. We wanted two picks before the expected bid. We had to cobble something together to achieve that.I agree with what you're saying but did Carlton want Henry? I remember reading that it was a stalling technique to buy time to make a trade.
It is the reason we pushed ourselves up the order because we believed Henry was going to be bid on before our original 2nd pick. We wanted two picks before the expected bid. We had to cobble something together to achieve that.
Two bids in a row . Plus they didn't know predraft that they would need extra time and we knew that they intended to bid on himI'm not disputing that only that Carlton themselves stated that it was all about buying more time for their trade.
They had a choice on who to bid on first and chose Henry knowing full well it would cause us issues it wouldn't cause GWS (who had the points). It didn't matter what order they used as both were always going to matched. Literally the only difference in outcome for all concerned (Carlton get 10 minutes, GWS get Green, we get Henry) was the deficit. It was definitely maliciousness.Carlton wanted Serong. They bid on Henry and not Green because we got Caleb and Sos sold his soul to GWS previously.
Yep they were pissed we got their target.They had a choice on who to bid on first and choose Henry knowing full well it would cause us issues it wouldn't cause GWS (who had the points). It didn't matter what order they used as both were always going to matched. Literally the only difference in outcome for all concerned (Carlton get 10 minutes, GWS get Green, we get Henry) was the deficit. It was definitely maliciousness.
Malicious at the time but will go down as common sense in 3 years when Henry is a better player than Green & who ever Carlton picked.They had a choice on who to bid on first and choose Henry knowing full well it would cause us issues it wouldn't cause GWS (who had the points). It didn't matter what order they used as both were always going to matched. Literally the only difference in outcome for all concerned (Carlton get 10 minutes, GWS get Green, we get Henry) was the deficit. It was definitely maliciousness.
I've run out of time at the moment but this is where I'm up to, counting backwards from last season:
This shouldn't be taken as absolute rock solid numbers either, I've probably missed one or two.
2019 - Total Academy and F/S selections: 8
Bids by:
Richmond x3
Carlton x2
Sydney, Essendon, North x1
2018 - Total Academy and F/S selections: 11
Bids by:
Adelaide, GWS x2
Melbourne, West Coast, Brisbane, Richmond, Geelong, Essendon, Hawthorn x1
2017 - Total Academy and F/S selections: 3
Bids by:
St Kilda, Fremantle, Port Adelaide x1
2016 - Total Academy and F/S selections: 9
Bids by:
Carlton, Sydney, North x2
Adelaide, Essendon, Richmond x1
2015 - Total Academy and F/S selections: 11
Bids by:
Richmond x3
Melbourne, Bulldogs x2
Gold Coast, Adelaide, North, Essendon x1
2014 - Total Academy and F/S selections: 9
Bids by:
North, Fremantle x2
Bulldogs, Melbourne, Adelaide, Richmond, Geelong x1
So 2014 to 2019 totals are:
Adelaide x5
Brisbane x1
Carlton x4
Collingwood x0
Essendon x4
Fremantle x3
Geelong x2
Gold Coast x1
GWS x2
Hawthorn x1
Melbourne x4
North x6
Port x1
Richmond x9
St Kilda x1
Swans x3
West Coast x1
Bulldogs x3
Richmond x9
North x6
Adelaide x5
Carlton, Essendon, Melbourne x4
Fremantle, Swans, Bulldogs x3
Geelong, GWS x2
Brisbane, Gold Coast, Hawthorn, Port Adelaide, St Kilda, West Coast x1
Collingwood x0
We fluffed around taking Hasleby before Pavlich years ago because Richmond wanted midfielders and did not want KPPs. We fluffed around (perhaps) taking Brayshaw at 2 because North had a pick prior to 5 and seemed highly likely to take him. Nothing wrong with using strategy in the draft. I think Carlton’s moves were fine and beneficial for them. If you rate an academy or f/s player I definitely think you should bid.If Freo rated Serong higher than Green it’s got to be obvious that you don’t take any risk of not getting Serong by bidding on Green.
Even with the hindsight to know Carlton bid on Henry first I wouldn’t do it.
Serongs a jet. If the club saw that potential (as it seems they did) you don’t fluff around over the risk of a few future points.
Can only hope the next draft haul is half as good for us and we’ll be set.
What if they wanted Henry and were keen to bid for him at their original pick before ours? Wasnt that the reason we traded ahead of them in the draft in the first place ? So we would have had only Henry and Serong?Carlton wanted Serong. They bid on Henry and not Green because we got Caleb and Sos sold his soul to GWS previously.
This isn't quite accurate as Henry would be bid on a pick later as well as GWS picks would be removed from the draft pool (5 or 6 of them) pushing every single one of our picks up higher, our picks that we would have used to match would have had a higher value to match the Henry bid at 10.I remember being really pi$$ed at the time but this is correct, the difference in points was 59.2pts. Which means this list:
Changes into (I think):
Original Pick (Pts) Pick after Deficit (Pts)
1 (3000) 2 (2795)
2 (2517) 3 (2312)
3 (2234) 5 (2029)
4 (2034) 6 (1829)
5 (1878) 7 (1673)
6 (1751) 9 (1546)
7 (1644) 10 (1439)
8 (1551) 11 (1346)
9 (1469) 13 (1264)
10 (1395) 14 (1190)
So slight improvements if we did bid. I’d say there’s a stronger argument for us having traded better for later draft points prior to the draft but honestly I’m at peace with what we ended up with.
for sure those two trades really could/should have been better for us than they ended up being. I suspect we’ll end up with pick 6 or so which turns into pick 9, which could be the difference between grabbing someone like O’Driscoll with say a Bruhn. that said if the three of henry, Serong and young develop into what they’ve shown they could be it’ll be one hell of an outcome for the club (especially if you include Frederick as well)Eh, think it was brilliant drafting/recognition of talent, poor trading. You can easily criticise one area while lauding the other and things dont have to be all sunshine and rainbows so long as people frame in a context for actual discussion with some actual argument behind it.
Two SA team trades were horrendous (particularly the Adelaide one which wasnt live) and I would have liked us to show a bit of courage and bid on Green. GWS were always matching a bid.
Said it earlier though, excellent trading makes drafting easier, excellent drafting makes trading almost irrelevant
This isn't quite accurate as Henry would be bid on a pick later as well as GWS picks would be removed from the draft pool (5 or 6 of them) pushing every single one of our picks up higher, our picks that we would have used to match would have had a higher value to match the Henry bid at 10.