Universal Love Pick the Butch

Should John Butcher play against Hawthorn?

  • Yes, pick John Butcher

    Votes: 79 71.2%

  • No, there's no way Butcher can be left out

    Votes: 32 28.8%
  • Total voters
    111

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It's a matter of opinion El_Scorcho, with the exception of his first half dozen games he hasn't played as the club has wanted him too. I agree with you in regards to most of the other names you've mentioned, in particular Dan Stewart, Hitchcock, and Mitchell but making the same mistake with JB won't help our club.
I thought he deserved one last chance against Richmond, when Ken decided to play Jay instead, and he may still get that last chance but if he doesn't it hasn't been a lack of opportunities from the club, it falls squarely back on John.
 
Chachi said:
It's a matter of opinion El_Scorcho, with the exception of his first half dozen games he hasn't played as the club has wanted him too. I agree with you in regards to most of the other names you've mentioned, in particular Dan Stewart, Hitchcock, and Mitchell but making the same mistake with JB won't help our club.
I thought he deserved one last chance against Richmond, when Ken decided to play Jay instead, and he may still get that last chance but if he doesn't it hasn't been a lack of opportunities from the club, it falls squarely back on John.
Click to expand...

I guess the others who have been given better opportunities are just one aspect of the mistakes the club has made regarding Butcher's selection. It's absolutely been a lack of opportunities and there has very clearly been a gulf between the expectations that some players must meet to get selected and others. But also importantly, we've failed to take into account structure and development over and over and over again to the detriment of our performances.

Key forwards take time to develop. We invested a top 10 pick in this one. He should have been given more opportunity and his performances have always been basically in line with a key forward of his level of experience. His career numbers across 28 games are basically in line with any other KPF's first 28 games apart from guys who have gone on to become champions.

At any other club in the AFL, from Hawthorn to Richmond to Melbourne, he'd have played 50 games.
 

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Chachi said:
I don't think it's fair to bag the club for not giving JB chances and I'd be happy to wager that another club doesn't pick him up.
If Adsgonads is right about a rookie spot then I would be surprised. It seems pointless after not picking him in this years injury/poor form environment. As a club we need to be more honest about ourselves (especially our weaknesses) but that's a really hard thing to do.
Click to expand...
Agree with most of your post but we have a poor record in developing talls. I have watched Butcher closely this year and he is good on both sides and and plays a big part in creating opportunities for others to kick goals, as well as kick some himself. he should have played, or why did the club give him a one year extension. Makes no sense to me, we train all summer with an expected forward line of Monfries, Dixon and Schulz so what would have been wrong with Young, Dixon and Butcher, he was in good form at the time.
 
El_Scorcho said:
I guess the others who have been given better opportunities are just one aspect of the mistakes the club has made regarding Butcher's selection. It's absolutely been a lack of opportunities and there has very clearly been a gulf between the expectations that some players must meet to get selected and others. But also importantly, we've failed to take into account structure and development over and over and over again to the detriment of our performances.

Key forwards take time to develop. We invested a top 10 pick in this one. He should have been given more opportunity and his performances have always been basically in line with a key forward of his level of experience. His career numbers across 28 games are basically in line with any other KPF's first 28 games apart from guys who have gone on to become champions.

At any other club in the AFL, from Hawthorn to Richmond to Melbourne, he'd have played 50 games.
Click to expand...

Truth be told, Matty Primus was the only coach who really believed in Butch and wanted to invest in him and give him opportunities. Played 12 of 47 games under Primus, the majority of those missed being through injury. Has played just 16 of 85 under Hinkley despite being fit and available for almost all of the last four years.
 
El_Scorcho with the lack of mature talls he may get another 1 year deal with us, I doubt anyone else will want him needs to keep the good vein of form up.
 
DazzaTys said:
Hawks will get him cheap and turn him into Buddy MkII. Then in 5 years we will have another thread asking for our 5 worst decisions.
Click to expand...

Yeah maybe, the Hawks like their quality kicking though so Butcher might not cut their mustard.

I can see both Carlton and Collingwood having a look, both of their KPF cupboards are pretty bare.
 
El_Scorcho said:
I guess the others who have been given better opportunities are just one aspect of the mistakes the club has made regarding Butcher's selection. It's absolutely been a lack of opportunities and there has very clearly been a gulf between the expectations that some players must meet to get selected and others. But also importantly, we've failed to take into account structure and development over and over and over again to the detriment of our performances.

Key forwards take time to develop. We invested a top 10 pick in this one. He should have been given more opportunity and his performances have always been basically in line with a key forward of his level of experience. His career numbers across 28 games are basically in line with any other KPF's first 28 games apart from guys who have gone on to become champions.

At any other club in the AFL, from Hawthorn to Richmond to Melbourne, he'd have played 50 games.
Click to expand...
I try to be objective and there's definitely a difference in a players development when he's backed in and given the confidence to develop and you look at JB and say he's got the raw materials so it should happen.
With Butch I don't think there's one definitive reason for why he hasn't lived up to the expectation, it's a combination of things and game time is one of those factors. What I didn't understand is why did the club bother to retain JB if they weren't going to play him because it seems that they don't see him as an option. First Dougs got the opportunity over him, then an unfit Jay Schulz got the nod when his sanfl form warranted selection. I wasn't critical of the Dougs selection but I was of the Jay selection.
I don't think being a top pick means you should persevere with a player longer, I think Melbourne made a smart decision with Toumpas. I know you'll refer to Watts now but I think difference with Watts is that he showed enough, more than Butch has imo (here being the key point of difference of our opinions), to warrant that belief. I mean has JB really done that at AFL level? Personally I don't think so and that in turn has meant the game time and opportunity to develop has been taken away.
I hope, and I'm sure you do, that he's a late inclusion tomorrow and rips it up but I also hope Collingwood wins but sadly both are unlikely.
 
El_Scorcho said:
I guess the others who have been given better opportunities are just one aspect of the mistakes the club has made regarding Butcher's selection. It's absolutely been a lack of opportunities and there has very clearly been a gulf between the expectations that some players must meet to get selected and others. But also importantly, we've failed to take into account structure and development over and over and over again to the detriment of our performances.

Key forwards take time to develop. We invested a top 10 pick in this one. He should have been given more opportunity and his performances have always been basically in line with a key forward of his level of experience. His career numbers across 28 games are basically in line with any other KPF's first 28 games apart from guys who have gone on to become champions.

At any other club in the AFL, from Hawthorn to Richmond to Melbourne, he'd have played 50 games.
Click to expand...
Ben Brown is a perfect example. Every time I see him I wish Butch got the same go.
 

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Each week there is a new reason to pick Butch. Kern can't ignore Dixon's injury, he has to pick him now.

It's time for #butcherama
 
After hearing Nicks say that Butch was very close to getting a call up, I reckon he will get picked next week if Charlie doesn't come up, and you'd think they wouldn't take risks with Charlie given his history.
 
Probably worth holding back Butcher from tomorrow's game given the concern over Dixon's ankle. Surely not worth the risk given the lack of other key forward options?
 
Kern: Who is that forward that is impressing everyone?
Assistant: That's Butcher.
Kern: No the other one.
Assistant: Reynolds? He's an SANFL listed player you can't pick him.
Kern: Oh, Well let's call Lobbe up then.
 
It's time.

Quite literally. A non-selection this week and it's career over at Ports.
 
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