Political Discussion part #2 - Let’s go out for 10 Big Macs at the Engadine Maccas!!

[FruitTingles]

Nope.

No trained economist would recommend that path. Wonder why...? It doesn’t work.

 

[Carmo]

FTFY

Nope.

No mainstream economist would recommend that path. Wonder why...? Because after years of puffing themselves up: we know all about this, this is the only right way to do things, we've finally solved economics for the rest of history (so nothing grandiose), to then actually find out there's a small number of people who have actually figured out how it correctly works and to find out that you are not just a little incorrect, but opposite to correct for most things, are you going to man up and publically admit you're wrong and now adopt the correct framework or, since there's a huge club of you and only a tiny club of them, are you going to suppress the other group, make them out as cranks, keep all their stuff as quiet as you can and keep puffing up what you believe (not know) is right, so that you're not thrown on the expert scrap heap??

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

What does free floating currency mean?

 

[Carmo]

What does free floating currency mean?

One that doesn't have a fixed exchange rate to other currencies or other things (like gold). What Australia has had since 12 December 1983 when we floated the dollar. What the US has had since 1971. Countries in the Eurozone, except maybe sort of Germany do not have this. Therefore they are still on the tax to spend system and at the mercy of Brussels based bureaucratic decisions, hence some of the issues with the countries there. That's why I agree with Brexit. That's why I support a dissolving of the EU. Countries need to get out of that system, regain their monetary sovereignty, sort their economies out and get on with business.

 

[Deaneus!]

A few budgetary reminders at an appropriate time...

A federal govt with its own free floating currency does not have to tax to spend.

A federal govt that spends more than it taxes is said to be in deficit.

When a fed govt spends, the money created for this is called debt. This is ridiculous though, because they are only in debt to themselves. Unless they borrowed in O/S currency. Which is a ridiculous thing to do, when you can create your own (but they still do it FYI).

A sovereign govt with a free floating currency can never become insolvent.

Given we've allayed the fears about govt spending limits, an appropriately managed fed budget would've given more funding to SA.

Then the debt would never have been an issue.

Then we wouldn't have to cut the jobs or funding.

Then demand wouldn't drop.

Then private sector slow down and job cuts wouldn't happen

Then more people on to govt support and worsening books wouldn't happen.

Then the rinse and repeat that happens after "we wouldn't have to cut the jobs and funding" wouldn't happen.

Wouldn't this only hold true if all inputs required for society to function, that society already held? i.e., no imports?

 

[Deaneus!]

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/...r-dutton-au-pair-scandal-20180906-p5021f.html

Help for a 'friend': Roman Quaedvlieg reveals explosive evidence in Peter Dutton au pair scandal

Former Border Force commissioner Roman Quaedvlieg wrote to the Senate inquiry to reveal the phone call he received from Mr Dutton’s chief of staff in June 2015, seeking help for a "friend" of the minister who had an au pair in detention at Brisbane Airport.



Well, it keeps getting better

 

[Carmo]

Wouldn't this only hold true if all inputs required for society to function, that society already held? i.e., no imports?

No. Trade does complicate the situation, though not enough to render anything I've said incorrect. Im curious, why /how are you coming to the above statement?

 

[StonesThrow]

What does free floating currency mean?

What he didn't answer was that essentially it fluctuates depending on the demand for it. If the demand for the Australian dollar increases (e.g. Countries start buying more of our minerals) then the value will increase and vice versa. Hence that's one of the reasons why we had such a high dollar during the mining boom.

Why it's low right now I'm not sure as i haven't been following it.

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

Wouldn't this only hold true if all inputs required for society to function, that society already held? i.e., no imports?

How can a society function when people abuse there power to censor truths that don't suit thier fundemenatlism?

 

[brucetiki]

The screws aren't happy about the privitisation of the Remand Centre - they've channeled their inner Colleen Powell and marched into Parliament to protest the privitisation.

 

[FruitTingles]

No. Trade does complicate the situation, though not enough to render anything I've said incorrect. Im curious, why /how are you coming to the above statement?

I'd be thinking about this:

If you plan to simply print money eventually the notes themselves are worth less than the toilet paper they might be used to purchase.

Your trading partners will also not want to trade and request sales in USD.

 

[relapse]

A quick pay day is selling the MAC to balance a budget after letting public service expenditure getting out of control.

Look at the downgrades in the credit rating following the state bank and the consequent borrowing costs.

That's astonishingly simplistic economic reasoning.

ETSA was a necessary pill brought on by Bannon's State Bank Collapse.

No it wasn't at all.

Victoria covered the Pyramid building society disaster with a 3c fuel levy.

There were other options but they just blindly followed on from what Jeff Kennett was doing in Victoria ie sell everything off that wasn't bolted down.

The public most probably would have been open to a levy as an alternative because the public never wanted ETSA sold and the Libs actually broke a promise by selling it.

It's amazing how the Liberal voters will never come out and just admit that it was a bad decision and always try and justify it.

At the end of the day, s**t politics is s**t politics whether it's Labor, Liberal or whoever.

 

[jo172]

No it wasn't at all.

Victoria covered the Pyramid building society disaster with a 3c fuel levy.

There were other options but they just blindly followed on from what Jeff Kennett was doing in Victoria ie sell everything off that wasn't bolted down.

The public most probably would have been open to a levy as an alternative because the public never wanted ETSA sold and the Libs actually broke a promise by selling it.

It's amazing how the Liberal voters will never come out and just admit that it was a bad decision and always try and justify it.

The collapse of the State Bank incurred 4 x greater government debt then the Pyramid Building Society.

Given the comparison in population sizes you'd need much greater than a 3c fuel levy.

Throw in the newly introduced GST this was hardly going to be a palatable option.

 

[relapse]

The collapse of the State Bank incurred 4 x greater government debt then the Pyramid Building Society.

Given the comparison in population sizes you'd need much greater than a 3c fuel levy.

Throw in the newly introduced GST this was hardly going to be a palatable option.

Don't confuse debt with the actual bail out figures.

The Pyramid debt was around 2 bill while the Bank SA debt was around 3.5 bill, but in terms of the actual money the government had to pay in terms of a bail out was around $970 million and from memory was lower than what the Victorian government had to pay for Pyramid.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

One that doesn't have a fixed exchange rate to other currencies or other things (like gold). What Australia has had since 12 December 1983 when we floated the dollar. What the US has had since 1971. Countries in the Eurozone, except maybe sort of Germany do not have this. Therefore they are still on the tax to spend system and at the mercy of Brussels based bureaucratic decisions, hence some of the issues with the countries there. That's why I agree with Brexit. That's why I support a dissolving of the EU. Countries need to get out of that system, regain their monetary sovereignty, sort their economies out and get on with business.

Sure thing Vlad.

 

[macca23]

I only heard a little bit but it's obviously much more than you heard. They are referring to tenants that after gaining their property have subsequently gained employment and have reached a certain income limit. And don't lecture me about poverty, I lived in housing trust until I was 15 years old. We ran out of food at the end of the week. Mum, rest her soul, did manage to find the readies to fund a pack or so a day habit. My grey school jeans were handed down to me from macca23 youngest. We had absolute nothing for nearly my entire childhood, so GAGF you full of s**t cranker.

Sadly I can back you up on everything you say Matty. Your mum came to me in despair for help time after time as she had no other alternatives. I could never say no to her, and I'm glad I didn't for all the reasons you mentioned Matty, in spite of the pack a day habit. You certainly know what poverty is, as unfortunately you lived it.

 

[Carmo]

I'd be thinking about this:
If you plan to simply print money eventually the notes themselves are worth less than the toilet paper they might be used to purchase.
Your trading partners will also not want to trade and request sales in USD.

You know that thing I said above about mainstream economists being wrong and all, and now you've just quoted mainstream economic dogma to me!?
You might want to get up to date on the latest research.

Rapid Money Supply Growth Does Not Cause Inflation
In our review of 47 countries, generally from 1960 forward, we found that more often than not high inflation does not follow rapid money supply growth, and in contrast to this, high inflation has occurred frequently when it has not been preceded by rapid money supply growth.
http://evonomics.com/moneysupply/

If you print or type too much money, yes it will tend to worthless. But I never said print to infinity did I? I said you can print it up to the point the economy is fully utilised. After the economy is full with full employment and factories producing at or near capacity etc, if you print more money then you will have inflation issues. But why would a govt do that? The only reason is they want to self destruct the economy and if you have a govt hell bent on achieving that, then there's an almost infinite range of options for them. Assuming the govt doesn't want to tank the economy, what issue do you have with having full employment? I thought most people would consider that a good thing.

As regards trade, what will happen if you run a large current account deficit and also have a free floating exchange rate is that your currency will devalue, this will drive the cost of imports up and it would self correct, with things being more expensive less imports would come in....unless of course we have our hell bent on self destructing govt or private sector again, which, if we did have, they'd achieve their goal, insane behaviour like that couldn't be stopped.

 

[Carmo]

Socialism..

Or capitalism? Private sector constitutes around 70% of the venezuelan economy.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/0...enezuelan-economy-despite-chavez-crusade.html

 

[Carmo]

Hero of yours Corbyn?
That went well.

Why do you bother posting what you do Bicks (at least to me)? I post my stuff so people can learn, and especially learn stuff that's potentially very useful for them to know and they wont get to hear about elsewhere. Its pretty much up to them to take it or leave it.

Do you think that if I am as knowledgeable about the world as I claim to be that I'd have no awareness of the issues of socialism? Did you notice that I haven't mentioned socialism (as in the alleged implemented political form in communism and not the general concept of being socially caring)? The stuff you post wont change my mind as my mind is changed by data, high quality data and research at that. I have gone and found far better examples of support for your side of the argument, problem is, they still fall well short of the arguments I currently support. I think you make yourself look immature. I don't mind a bit of a stir up, that's why I bit back to the socialism thing above, but you just go on. Back on socialism, if I havent advocated it why bother with your strawman? Especially when its a strawman that I can refute easily anyway: How's socialism doing in Venezuela....a truckload better than capitalism's doing in Haiti!

 

[brucetiki]

Looks like the screws will be back bigger and better on Monday.

Perhaps Lucas could privitise the Remand Centre to Jenny Craig!

 

[Carmo]

Bicks: Did someone say immature? Hold my beer:

Learn....Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Anyway, I might do a whole explainer series on modern monetary theory vs neoliberalism, I'm sure you'll be keen for that Bicks.

 

[Deaneus!]

Boom!


Those Sudanese mother*ers, laying into those dudes. Not safe to go to restuarants or the footy it seems

 

[Deaneus!]

Sure does...

For all the cows that are holy

It does just keep getting better and better

 

[Elite Crow]

 

[Cap]

I don't get SA Labor at the moment.

They are acting like a two term opposition party, half the stuff they complain about are either a result of their policies or they did the same thing.

I get they are in opposition but they just come across as complete morons.