Political Discussion

[Mego Red]

Before you claim to know what you are on about, perhaps you should have read all of my posts. The LNQ is a merged party between the Libs and Nationals in QLD, there are obviously Liberal votes in there. In 2007 prior to the merger I just looked at the first 2 QLD seats listed, in those seats Labor polled 40k, Libs 35k in both seats.

What you guys are trying to do is effectively compare the National Labor vote across all states to the Libs vote excluding QLD. That's ludicrous.

You only had to go back to 2004 election where the Lib vote was more than Labor and I dare say that would have been the case through the Howard years.

My position is that which party gets the most votes will change from election to election. I've never said the Libs always poll more votes, whereas Kristof claimed the opposite, more people vote Labor therefore more Australians are tied to Labor values. Which is silly and effectively in the current political system can not be proven after the LNQ merger in QLD.

Okay - last election?

Australian Labor Party 4,702,296
Liberal Party of Australia 3,882,905
Liberal National Party (QLD) 1,153,736

Assuming that half the LNP voters in Qld are Libs, you have roughly 4.7m Labor voters and 4.4m Lib voters.

I'm happy to just say that "roughly half of Australia votes for Labor". That seems inarguable? So roughly half of Australia aligns with their values. And they obviously feel that your concern that union leadership is leading the party astray is not something to worry about.

 

[Bicks]

Victorian Labor..

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/e...cused-of-electoral-fraud-20170322-gv3wrh.html

Expenses scandal: Nardella and Languiller now accused of electoral fraud

Embattled political duo Don Nardella and Telmo Languiller have been accused of electoral fraud, as the fallout from the Labor entitlement scandal deepens. Parliament's internal auditors found that Mr Nardella had registered to vote at an Ocean Grove property and Mr Languiller had registered at Queenscliff, despite little evidence from either to justify that the towns were their principal place of residence. The two western suburbs MPs have caused outrage by moving their home base to the popular beachside towns and claiming an entitlement designed for country MPs who are forced to visit Melbourne. Mr Languiller has repaid nearly $38,000 in claims but Mr Nardella is refusing to repay any money. He has claimed at least $113,000 for living in Ocean Grove, well away from his Melton electorate. The interim audit report also revealed that he had been claiming the allowance while living in Ballarat for four years – the full report is set to be released Thursday.

 

[Bicks]

 

[Elite Crow]

Sigh. The Queensland results of the last two elections before the LNP merger.

2004 Election

Labor 1,011,630
Liberal 398,147
National 365,005

2006 Election

Labor 1,032,617
Liberal 442,453
National 392,124

What can we learn from this?

1. Labor was more popular then either party individually.
2. The LNP is roughly half Lib supporters and roughly half Nats supporters.

Now can we put this to rest? It's obvious that, compared to INDIVIDUAL parties, Labor is the most popular, hence the need for parties to merge into a coalition.

Are you quoting me State election results when we are discussing Federal numbers?

And just a few posts ago you were telling me the national LNQ numbers were mostly Nationals because you know, you're from up there, you'd know. Now you've produced state numbers which show the Libs outpoll the Nationals.

You are all over the shot.

 

[Elite Crow]

Okay - last election?

Australian Labor Party 4,702,296
Liberal Party of Australia 3,882,905
Liberal National Party (QLD) 1,153,736

Assuming that half the LNP voters in Qld are Libs, you have roughly 4.7m Labor voters and 4.4m Lib voters.

I'm happy to just say that "roughly half of Australia votes for Labor". That seems inarguable? So roughly half of Australia aligns with their values. And they obviously feel that your concern that union leadership is leading the party astray is not something to worry about.

So you've cherry picked an election, what were the results in the previous election?

And are you trying to suggest voters who vote National are more closely aligned to Labor than the Libs? Really? Even though they know they are small part of a Coalition that will see the Libs get in?

 

[WCE1987]

Okay - last election?
I'm happy to just say that "roughly half of Australia votes for Labor". That seems inarguable? So roughly half of Australia aligns with their values. And they obviously feel that your concern that union leadership is leading the party astray is not something to worry about.

Where are labor values listed? I could easily find Liberal ones. I know the general vibe of them just couldn't find.

IMO i don't know if half of Aussies align with their values just that there is no point dropping votes on greens in lower house so they pick up more that way (although labor would still poll high). I think the senate spread is a better indication of the populations current thinking.

 

[Mego Red]

Are you quoting me State election results when we are discussing Federal numbers?

And just a few posts ago you were telling me the national LNQ numbers were mostly Nationals because you know, you're from up there, you'd know. Now you've produced state numbers which show the Libs outpoll the Nationals.

You are all over the shot.

Oh, that's weak, even for you.

Any other ways you want to count all the National Party voters as Liberal voters??

That was such a ridiculous logic fail, you should have just given up.

And now, here you are, days later still flogging a dead horse.

You foolishly tried to say that all the LNP votes should be counted as Liberal votes, when a six year old could have pointed out that many - and some years most - of those voters were actually National supporters.

The failure of that post had been pointed out, over and over again.

You said something dumb. It's not a big deal. I've given you a way out by saying "let's call half of them Lib voters", and showing that even once you include that Labor still wins the single party votes.

My god - that same six year old could point out THAT'S WHY THERE IS A COALITION. To overcome that single party win for Labor.

Just move on. It really discredits other things you say when you keep coming back to this obvious error of counting LNP voters as pure Liberal voters.

 

[Mego Red]

So you've cherry picked an election, what were the results in the previous election?

And are you trying to suggest voters who vote National are more closely aligned to Labor than the Libs? Really? Even though they know they are small part of a Coalition that will see the Libs get in?

What the * are you talking about now??

Who the hell has said anything about who people are "more closely aligned with"?

We said SINGLE PARTY SUPPORT.

WHICH SINGLE PARTY HAS THE MOST VOTERS.

Find ONE election where the votes of ONLY the Liberal Party beats the votes of ONLY the Labor Party.

 

[Mego Red]

Where are labor values listed? I could easily find Liberal ones. I know the general vibe of them just couldn't find.

IMO i don't know if half of Aussies align with their values just that there is no point dropping votes on greens in lower house so they pick up more that way (although labor would still poll high). I think the senate spread is a better indication of the populations current thinking.

Greens take a lot of votes from Labor in the city seats.

 

[DD#23]

Greens take a lot of votes from Labor in the city seats.

Greens voters don't preference Labor?

 

[WCE1987]

Greens take a lot of votes from Labor in the city seats.

Oh fair enough good point, thought people wouldn't bother as green's wont win lower house so its a bit of a wasted vote (although they might have a very good local member). Definitely agreed the would pull from Labor in upper house, hence why their relationship seems so logical

 

[DD#23]

Oh fair enough good point, thought people wouldn't bother as green's wont win lower house so its a bit of a wasted vote (although they might a very good local member). Definitely agreed the would pull from Labor in upper house, hence why their relationship seems so logical

alright, time out - everyone knows you can number all the boxes right? Just want to point that out.

 

[WCE1987]

alright, time out - everyone knows you can number all the boxes right? Just want to point that out.

Yeah I just meant with 1st I mean, of course preference sharing etc.
Was just alluding to my point about senate representation of parties

 

[Elite Crow]

Oh, that's weak, even for you.

Any other ways you want to count all the National Party voters as Liberal voters??

That was such a ridiculous logic fail, you should have just given up.

And now, here you are, days later still flogging a dead horse.

You foolishly tried to say that all the LNP votes should be counted as Liberal votes, when a six year old could have pointed out that many - and some years most - of those voters were actually National supporters.

The failure of that post had been pointed out, over and over again.

You said something dumb. It's not a big deal. I've given you a way out by saying "let's call half of them Lib voters", and showing that even once you include that Labor still wins the single party votes.

My god - that same six year old could point out THAT'S WHY THERE IS A COALITION. To overcome that single party win for Labor.

Just move on. It really discredits other things you say when you keep coming back to this obvious error of counting LNP voters as pure Liberal voters.

Have a tantrum all you want. Did you not tell me the other day that the LNQ was basically a vote for the Nationals and the Libs were a non event in QLD? Now you've produced stats which show the Libs are over half the vote and you are still claiming to be right? What kind of logic is that?

As for dumb comments that takes the cake, surely you can see the idiocy in your conflicting posts?

I have told you that the leading party varies from election to election, the last 2 elections before the split, Labor led one and the Libs the other. WHY THE * ARE YOU CONTINUING TO IGNORE THIS? NOT ONCE HAVE YOU ADDRESSED IT.

Now you've repeated your stupid assertion that the Coalition exists to beat one party in Labor when you know you wouldn't win without Greens preferences.

 

[Elite Crow]

What the **** are you talking about now??

Who the hell has said anything about who people are "more closely aligned with"?

We said SINGLE PARTY SUPPORT.

WHICH SINGLE PARTY HAS THE MOST VOTERS.

Find ONE election where the votes of ONLY the Liberal Party beats the votes of ONLY the Labor Party.

2004, but I've already told you that.

 

[WCE1987]

alright, time out - everyone knows you can number all the boxes right? Just want to point that out.

I thought the guys were talking about primary votes, or were those stats after preference sharing numbers?

 

[Elite Crow]

I think the majority of Australians are aligned with the Labor Party (as compared to the Libs, the Nats or any minor party) and a vast minority of Australians are union members.

That means, despite the efforts of the majority of our media, more Australians are aligned with Labor values than Lib.

Having members of Unions within the Labor Party is only problematic if they're pulling the party away from what is best for voters.

Voters don't seem to believe that.

Many union leaders have come from a background of service for the good of their members. That is arguably the best possible background for political and public service.

You hate unions. You've made that clear. Others don't agree.

DID I JUST READ THE WORD ALIGNED?

Kristof you are full of s**t.

 

[Elite Crow]

What the **** are you talking about now??

Who the hell has said anything about who people are "more closely aligned with"?

We said SINGLE PARTY SUPPORT.

WHICH SINGLE PARTY HAS THE MOST VOTERS.

Find ONE election where the votes of ONLY the Liberal Party beats the votes of ONLY the Labor Party.

See above mate, busted.

 

[Elite Crow]

Greens take a lot of votes from Labor in the city seats.

Oh that's hilarious, just like the Nationals take a lot of votes from the Liberals in the country seats.

 

[Elite Crow]

Greens voters don't preference Labor?

The Greens control Labor though.

 

[DD#23]

I thought the guys were talking about primary votes, or were those stats after preference sharing numbers?

yeah, I've skipped a few posts, my fault.

 

[Bicks]

The Greens control Labor though.

I think you've misread the intent mate?

 

[Elite Crow]

I think you've misread the intent mate?

That was directed to the rubbery Kristof.

 

[Bicks]

 

[WCE1987]

So confusing now, wonder if it was a lone wolf and they're just using this to arrest future potential threats whilst they have more authorized power. Any way that sounds like a thought for the conspiracy theory thread..