Autopsy Preseason 2022: Collingwood v Hawthorn, Morwell, 3.30pm 25th February

[Slainte]

Ok
At what point did Elliot actually look at the ball. It should have been interference in the marking contest firstly, but both should have been let go. That’s the point I was trying to make. But like the ump, you saw the arm go over the shoulder when Elliott tucked himself under it. Soft non free

The way I saw it is that both players were jostling to get to the drop of the ball. In the process, Sicily got his arm across Elliott's shoulder and round his neck.

 

[Brishawk]

Agree. I'm moving Moore up the ground now.

Who is going to kick our goals, though?

 

[Roger Rogerson]

Jeka continues to disappoint me. Seems to be all show but no go. I don’t get all the hype from some supporters

On yesterday’s small sample size I would place Callow ahead of Jeka by some margin. Has a crack and can take some solid contested grabs. Jeka seems to only find the ball it on open spaces. Starting to see why he went from a potential top 2 pick to bring up passed over in the National a year later

Geez not sure about that at all.

 

[Kanga Commando]

Who is going to kick our goals, though?

Well Gunston will be on the HBF so not him...

 

[kazzooka]

I know we have NEVER had a dominant ruckman, but will Reeves and the Collingwood kid be reasonable second stringers. BB is finished from a premiership perspective. Significant List Management issues.

Paul Salmon and Peter Everett were plenty dominant in the top 3-5 rucks in the comp.

Reeves and Lynch both did pretty well negating Gawn who is the best at the moment. Didn't dominate him or beat him even but was good enough to prevent what gawn did to Geelong in the pf.

They will both get better and Reeves is not getting any shorter so will cause headaches just with his size.

 

[grumbleguts]

I'm watching the highlights...did the Kayo scoreboard miss a goal?

We scored on in the first, Dylan Moore

We scored 2 in the 2nd, I think ...Reeves early, and then McEvoy on the siren

Worpel scored that snap in the 3rd, to take us to 4 goals, i thought.

Then they show Lewis goal, but the scoreboard still says it's the 4th goal, Seamus and Shiels goals take us to 5 and 6 at 3/4 time...but I'm sure it's 7


Am I right, or just confusing myself?

McEvoy's goal was later reversed I think.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Can’t change BB but Reeves and Lewis 100+kg are big units but don’t use it to their advantage. Grundy bullied us yesterday and Cox did at times as well. They need to scrap, fight and hurt more!

Roughy was a bit of gentle giant in his early days ………. something needs to click with these two!

You mention but Lewy was dominant, outside of his kicking for goal.

 

[FB19]

Punky might have kicked 15 today.

Was he planning to line up for Collingwood?

 

[joeyhawker]

Jekka although didn't appear to get much of it just has to play (to at least see if he can develop further,). His field kicking is something we clearly lack. Seems more suited to playing high forward at this stage though I think I did see him take a good contested mark deep.

On SM-G973F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[burner1]

Yea it’s only preseason, but when you’re playing a club who also finished down the ladder and probably at a similar position preperation wise would have hoped for a slightly better showing.

Let’s see how the next month or two pans out - Obviously lots of work to do in next few weeks and in season proper (and next few as well).

Don’t think midfield is a coaching issue - we’ve had what Bolton, burns, Mitchell, McRae and now Harvey. If Harvey can’t make it work he won’t be the first. It’s a personnel issue.

 

[offtherails9]

In recent seasons our style of play has become easy to defend. You may be giving our current crop of player more credit than is deserved. I watch our midfield (in particular) butcher the ball by foot week in/out. They don’t put it to the spots which the opposition can’t get to. Makes it easy to defend.

Yeah true, not sure whether I'd put that down to skill level or game plan though, probably skill level for mine.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Paul Salmon and Peter Everett were plenty dominant in the top 3-5 rucks in the comp.

Reeves and Lynch both did pretty well negating Gawn who is the best at the moment. Didn't dominate him or beat him even but was good enough to prevent what gawn did to Geelong in the pf.

They will both get better and Reeves is not getting any shorter so will cause headaches just with his size.

Reeves had a terrible first term, but he got into the game well after that. Going up against Grundy (who has a point to prove) is always going to be tough, but from the 2nd onwards, he had quite a few good taps to advantage, palming a lot right onto the chest onto worpel and Newcombe.

He looks lost around the field, but most ruckmen do

 

[Beandip]

I'd say this is a valuable reality check for the group to refocus training and intensity in the lead up for the season.

With new players, coaches and game plans there's a tendency to want to believe in the fairytale start. This helps make sure the boys didn't build false expectations, and understand the hurdles on the journey to success.

Reckon Mitch and other coaches get more to work with out of this than the other way around.

 

[Davo-27]

As I have said so many times on these Boards. We cannot challenge with the two current KPD’s. I also worry for the KPF’s as well. That is four players we have to find. Hopefully we will eventually elevate Mitch Lewis. We need four quality players for these positions. This is why it will take 3-5 years minimum. That is from now.

Frost and Hartigan are not up to it. Lewis perhaps. Can Kosi play FB ?? Can he be any good at FB. Gunston is 30 next season and will have to be replaced. The List has a long way to go. This is why Sam and our List managers have, and will continue to look, for upgrades and more picks.

The good news is we now accept this position.

that was the worst performance ive seen from Frost and Hartigan, unfortunately they are limited KPD's, Hartigan is there to play on the big boys and he does that to an ok level, Frost can be good defensively, but also can turnover and give away silly frees, i love how Frost competes, so i hope he can limit his negative aspects of his game.

 

[Davo-27]

Yea it’s only preseason, but when you’re playing a club who also finished down the ladder and probably at a similar position preperation wise would have hoped for a slightly better showing.

Let’s see how the next month or two pans out - Obviously lots of work to do in next few weeks and in season proper (and next few as well).

Don’t think midfield is a coaching issue - we’ve had what Bolton, burns, Mitchell, McRae and now Harvey. If Harvey can’t make it work he won’t be the first. It’s a personnel issue.

thats a great point, every coach with any credibility has tried to manage our midfield over the last 5 years with mostly bad results, it cant be the coaching, it has to be the personnel, its the only constant that is holding us back from progressing, we need to encourage change in that area of the team to improve, the issue is that other than maybe MacDonald, Ward, Day and Bramble we dont have the guys to really boost this area to improve the team and its not guaranteed they are ready to do so yet, so its one of those situations where we have to take the risk to see improvement potentially.

 

[Pessimistic]

In the season proper we need to sacrifice depth in other areas to really get our outside mids settled and working with the onballers

It will sting at times but the whole thing could be ticking over by seasons end, and set for 5 years

We started with ward and maginness there. Who are obviously raw Later on Phillips and Howe came in, ward and maginnes took other roles and it looked better as the game went on. Collingwood mainly rested their a graders after half time so it’s not conclusive. I reckon our staff got a good look at who can do what.

 

[The hands of stone]

I'd say this is a valuable reality check for the group to refocus training and intensity in the lead up for the season.

With new players, coaches and game plans there's a tendency to want to believe in the fairytale start. This helps make sure the boys didn't build false expectations, and understand the hurdles on the journey to success.

Reckon Mitch and other coaches get more to work with out of this than the other way around.

We've finished 15th and 14th last two seasons , change of coach , player turnover etc .

Would hope we didnt need a reality check to be honest !

 

[Suntory Boss Coffee]

Still think Jeka will be the best of any of our current KPF. Needs a longer crack in the 1's. Banged down the door last year and had a taste.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Still think Jeka will be the best of any of our current KPF. Needs a longer crack in the 1's. Banged down the door last year and had a taste.

Jeka needs an open forward line.
Until we honour leads and stop bombing long, he isn't going to make it at hawthorn.

Put him in the bulldogs lineup though, he'd be an 80 goal a year forward

 

[flinchfree]

We've finished 15th and 14th last two seasons , change of coach , player turnover etc .

Would hope we didnt need a reality check to be honest !

I think that's the point....
Changed coaches, changed philosophy to whatever degree, changed some systems and setups, changed some players, a great vibe and confidence in those changes through a pre-season, and by consequence some players may have assumed changed effectiveness would be immediate and self evident.

Butt up to a challenger that wants to kick your ass and plays faster than you train at and all of a sudden shite is moving too fast to be as effective as in training.
It's a reminder for all the players (don't think the coaches would have been too surprised) that as Brishawk said, without a real intensity to pressure and turn over the opposition you won't get them on the back foot and give yourself that bit of opportunity to get the confidence up and subsequent improvement in skill and vision to take the best option - as opposed to the most harried and reflexive.

People talk about how our 1's were kicked by their 1's, but fail to give pause to examine the newness of our 1's in many cases to firsts level AFL footy, or as in the case of Sicily how long it's been since they were in the flow of pro footy.

Even Newk - who is such a stud with taking it all in step - has only a few games to his name, Ward none, Mac none, Reeves few, Lewis few, DGB few, etc etc.
Sure they got it handed to them for the most part early, but maybe we can get some time into the fellas we want to rely on going forward before we expect them to be ready every time they walk up into senior competition.

I think it was an awesome experience for them all, and agree that a wake up call to the level required is not negative but can be used really constructively going forward.
We're going to kick some A team asses this year, I guarantee it.

 

[Suntory Boss Coffee]

Jeka needs an open forward line.
Until we honour leads and stop bombing long, he isn't going to make it at hawthorn.

Put him in the bulldogs lineup though, he'd be an 80 goal a year forward

Give him some games at the MCG and he will be sweet. I still remember his debut against St Kilda. What a mess

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Give him some games at the MCG and he will be sweet. I still remember his debut against St Kilda. What a mess

The size of the ground isn't the issue. The delivery is

 

[Howe Amazing]

Doesn’t Moore play like an extra mid running up the ground to get possessions and then loses his opponent on the way back forward where he kicks his goals, don’t change anything there.

 

[Delecate Des]

Are we really doing this after one practice game?

Well, I believe the position of whipping boy is still vacant since TOB's departure????

 

[Mercy Seat]

Jeka needs an open forward line.
Until we honour leads and stop bombing long, he isn't going to make it at hawthorn.

Put him in the bulldogs lineup though, he'd be an 80 goal a year forward

It’s not 1995 anymore, plenty of average players can kick a bag with an open forward line and marks on a lead.

Our mids and slow ball movement over the years carry a lot of the blame, in that usually by the time we’d deliver inside 50, the opposition are able to defensively set up and negate the old school lead into space.

But still, we need creative talls who can still operate in the air and on the deck, and decent smalls to mop up. The best clubs have this, we have this less so. It’s up to Jeka to find these bows to his game.