Recommitted Tim Kelly [requested a trade to West Coast]

[Obeanie1]

Mate, you’re wasting your time.

You can’t base a request to leave on compassionate “I want to go home” reasons, then turn around and say “oh, but not that home...”

It just doesn’t cut the mustard, and that’s the exact reason Geelong rightfully held firm.

Yep. Kelly should have said sure Ill got to Freo. For a 1 year deal. Or Ill go to my preferred employer for five years.

Just need to get home. Get what you can Wells.

 

[Max zero]

Mate, you’re wasting your time.

You can’t base a request to leave on compassionate “I want to go home” reasons, then turn around and say “oh, but not that home...”

It just doesn’t cut the mustard, and that’s the exact reason Geelong rightfully held firm.

2018 is done mate.

Its 2019 now, here is to hoping Kelly is happy that you rightfully held firm.

 

[Bring back Moloney]

2018 is done mate.

Its 2019 now, here is to hoping Kelly is happy that you rightfully held firm.

Kelly is definitely happy to be at Geelong this year. No harm done there.

I personally believe he almost certainly will request a trade again, and I’ll have no issues with that. He’s served his 2 years, and if the family pull is strong enough, then so be it.

1% of me is holding onto a shred of hope he’ll stick around. Lol

 

[Overhang]

Was thinking this last night.

It's the Danger deal but in reverse.
Will be interesting to see if the Cats are as magnanimous as the Crows were in getting the player home to where he'll be happy.

Well I'm not sure at what point the Crows can be considered magnamimous in the Dangerfield trade, they were the first club to force a trade for a restricted free agent, we handed over pick 9, pick 28 and Dean Gore who I know everyone says is steak knives but we did rate him at the time as he was performing strongly in the VFL. While we did get a gun player for unders I don't think the Crows were as generous as you seem to suggest.

I'd like to add that conversely one has to ask themselves if WC would have been as proactive trying to bring TK home if he had an average year, we know they were in his ear from the early stages of last year. Has a first year contracted player ever been so actively chased by another club during the season?

 

[Max zero]

Well I'm not sure at what point the Crows can be considered magnamimous in the Dangerfield trade, they were the first club to force a trade for a restricted free agent, we handed over pick 9, pick 28 and Dean Gore who I know everyone says is steak knives but we did rate him at the time as he was performing strongly in the VFL. While we did get a gun player for unders I don't think the Crows were as generous as you seem to suggest.

I'd like to add that conversely one has to ask themselves if WC would have been as proactive trying to bring TK home if he had an average year, we know they were in his ear from the early stages of last year. Has a first year contracted player ever been so actively chased by another club during the season?

After all that my replay is does anything you have said in that post matter?

What happened in 2018 is done.

Kelly's price in 2019, as Danger's was, will be limited to whatever currency the target club has.

Can ask for all the top 10 picks you want but odds are neither Freo or WC will have any come the trade period.

Its not about being generous its about basic limitations in trade currency.

 

[year of the cat]

No I didn't ask what the FA rules are I asked whether Tim Kelly has repaid the faith Geelong have shown him and whether you think he still owes the club.

Your answer?

He’s certainly served his contract in a manner we could never be critical of. But that doesn’t mean that he should necessarily be able to move to a club of his choice without us being adequately compensated. If he had served a period of 7 years with us qualifying him as a free agent then he could do what he wants.

 

[citizen-erased]

Well I'm not sure at what point the Crows can be considered magnamimous in the Dangerfield trade, they were the first club to force a trade for a restricted free agent, we handed over pick 9, pick 28 and Dean Gore who I know everyone says is steak knives but we did rate him at the time as he was performing strongly in the VFL. While we did get a gun player for unders I don't think the Crows were as generous as you seem to suggest.

I'd like to add that conversely one has to ask themselves if WC would have been as proactive trying to bring TK home if he had an average year, we know they were in his ear from the early stages of last year. Has a first year contracted player ever been so actively chased by another club during the season?

for the last point, i can't think of too many 1st year contracted players having seasons as good, let alone being brownlow contenders the next.

9, 28 and Gore was unders for Danger. Adelaide could have refused to trade him, rather than take less than market value. There would have been 9 other vic clubs lining up better offers they could have explored.

Given the alternative was accepting, at best, Pick 12 for their B&F and a guy who would win the brownlow the next season, im not surprised they matched and forced a trade.

 

[citizen-erased]

Kelly is definitely happy to be at Geelong this year. No harm done there.

I personally believe he almost certainly will request a trade again, and I’ll have no issues with that. He’s served his 2 years, and if the family pull is strong enough, then so be it.

1% of me is holding onto a shred of hope he’ll stick around. Lol

Will be hard to lose. Absolute gun and getting 2 years out of him as he enters his prime will sting.

 

[Overhang]

9, 28 and Gore was unders for Danger. Adelaide could have refused to trade him, rather than take less than market value. There would have been 9 other vic clubs lining up better offers they could have explored.

Given the alternative was accepting, at best, Pick 12 for their B&F and a guy who would win the brownlow the next season, im not surprised they matched and forced a trade.

Oh they did the right thing by their club, just don't think they were chartible as your post seemed to suggest, I would say they actually played hardball. If they refused that trade the AFL most likely would have got involved given it was the first restricated free agent being forced to trade.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

for the last point, i can't think of too many 1st year contracted players having seasons as good, let alone being brownlow contenders the next.

9, 28 and Gore was unders for Danger. Adelaide could have refused to trade him, rather than take less than market value. There would have been 9 other vic clubs lining up better offers they could have explored.

Given the alternative was accepting, at best, Pick 12 for their B&F and a guy who would win the brownlow the next season, im not surprised they matched and forced a trade.

You're definitely touching on the other aspect here. Danger was a year away from unrestricted free agency and walking without requiring a trade or risking the draft which was a key driver of getting him for unders. Kelly is still I think 6 years away from putting the cats in the same bargaining position.

 

[Wojcinski]

7 Clearances a game is pretty high for a midfielder i would have thought

7th overall for clearances too, not bad for a 'soft outside player'

 

[citizen-erased]

You're definitely touching on the other aspect here. Danger was a year away from unrestricted free agency and walking without requiring a trade or risking the draft which was a key driver of getting him for unders. Kelly is still I think 6 years away from putting the cats in the same bargaining position.

Yeah, not 100% like for like, but they feel similar. Maybe cos it's Geelong and a non-vic side again, but with the roles reversed.

Given his season, i don't see how Geelong get value for him one way or another.
If he wins a brownlow, i don't think a reigning medallist has ever moved clubs that year (could be wrong)

 

[eastfreo75]

For reference: North Melbournes trades in 2018.

Pick 11 & 4th Rnd 2019 > Port for Polec, Pittard & 48

Ryan Clark > Sydney for pick 62.

Pick 31 > Fremantle for Picks 47, 49 & 55

Plus a few seperate trades and live trading after they landed Thomas. Fremantle currently lack the currency to do the level of trading that North did.

West Coast can do a similar thing but in the opposite direction as well. Target a club looking for points and not picks. West Coast has a lot more picks and points in this draft to play with.

If Fremantle offer 2019 and 2020 first round picks for Kelly and Cats throw us either 2019 second pick or 2019 and 2020 third round picks, and then trade 2019 Freos second pick for two third picks for a points surplus.

Then Fremantle will have enough points for Henry.

If Kelly decides to stay or go to the eagles, then that first round can be trade out like Sydney last year.

 

[Scotland]

Mate, you’re wasting your time.

You can’t base a request to leave on compassionate “I want to go home” reasons, then turn around and say “oh, but not that home...”

It just doesn’t cut the mustard, and that’s the exact reason Geelong rightfully held firm.

You can, though.

You shouldn't be able to, but you can. AFL player movement is a joke.

Why Wilson didn't want to join Eagles

FREMANTLE recruit Nathan Wilson has declared it was “Freo or bust” for his trade back to Perth, and vowed to become a support for his childhood mate Harley Bennell.

www.perthnow.com.au

“Freo or bust. I don’t like the Eagles. Put that up,” he said. “You are either Freo or Eagles and I am Freo.”

Hawks secure Gunston

Hawthorn has secured forward Jack Gunston from Adelaide is a trade week exchange involving the swapping of draft picks.

www.theage.com.au

He said Gunston was "pretty excited… he was pretty pumped" about getting to his Victorian club of choice.

Beams requests trade to home state Queensland

Star Pie tells the club he wants to be traded to home state Queensland

www.afl.com.au

The club released a statement saying that the 24-year-old wanted to return to Queensland - where he grew up - for "family reasons".

Winners and losers in the Dayne Beams 'mega-trade'

After taking a breath and letting the overly lengthy draft period wash over me, I want to have a closer look at the drawn-out,…

www.theroar.com.au

After taking a breath and letting the overly lengthy draft period wash over me, I want to have a closer look at the drawn-out, five-club ‘mega-deal’ completed to get Dayne Beams to his desired destination.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

If Fremantle offer 2019 and 2020 first round picks for Kelly and Cats throw us either 2019 second pick or 2019 and 2020 third round picks, and then trade 2019 Freos second pick for two third picks for a points surplus.

Then Fremantle will have enough points for Henry.

If Kelly decides to stay or go to the eagles, then that first round can be trade out like Sydney last year.

If you're keen on building points late there's easier ways to do. Just swap future late picks for current. There'll be plenty of takers.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

You can, though.

You shouldn't be able to, but you can. AFL player movement is a joke.

Why Wilson didn't want to join Eagles

FREMANTLE recruit Nathan Wilson has declared it was “Freo or bust” for his trade back to Perth, and vowed to become a support for his childhood mate Harley Bennell.

www.perthnow.com.au

“Freo or bust. I don’t like the Eagles. Put that up,” he said. “You are either Freo or Eagles and I am Freo.”

Hawks secure Gunston

Hawthorn has secured forward Jack Gunston from Adelaide is a trade week exchange involving the swapping of draft picks.

www.theage.com.au

He said Gunston was "pretty excited… he was pretty pumped" about getting to his Victorian club of choice.

Beams requests trade to home state Queensland

Star Pie tells the club he wants to be traded to home state Queensland

www.afl.com.au

The club released a statement saying that the 24-year-old wanted to return to Queensland - where he grew up - for "family reasons".

Winners and losers in the Dayne Beams 'mega-trade'

After taking a breath and letting the overly lengthy draft period wash over me, I want to have a closer look at the drawn-out,…

www.theroar.com.au

After taking a breath and letting the overly lengthy draft period wash over me, I want to have a closer look at the drawn-out, five-club ‘mega-deal’ completed to get Dayne Beams to his desired destination.

At great risk of repeating ourselves here but I don't think there's much of an illusion that he's 90% probable to land at west coast. The trade dynamic is a fair bit different this year though I think

 

[Scotland]

At great risk of repeating ourselves here but I don't think there's much of an illusion that he's 90% probable to land at west coast. The trade dynamic is a fair bit different this year though I think

I didn't claim there was...?

Kelly may choose West Coast, or he may choose Freo, or be may be open to either. The fact remains that players play the 'homesick' card all the time then nominate a club or clubs of choice.

Richmond were very keen to secure Chris Judd and we traded him to Carlton. He shortlisted Carlton, Collingwood, Melbourne and Essendon IIRC then nominated Carlton. The want of Richmond was a non factor. In the end Carlton valued pick 1 higher than Josh Kennedy and bad luck for them.

Let's say WC offer pick 20 (Rd 1 after shuffling down the order 1-5 spots) + 2020 Rd 1 then Freo come to the party late and offer pick 8 or something. If Kelly doesn't agree to a trade to Freo then any offer from Freo is effectively irrelevant. There is no mechanism for Geelong to trade him to the highest bidder as there is in other sports. The risk to WC is Kelly going in the draft and landing elsewhere. The risk to Geelong is Kelly going in the draft and them getting nothing. But there is still no mechanism to say 'well we could get XYZ from another club, give us XYZ'.

Whatever happens you can take it to the bank that should Kelly request a trade to WC that people will be bleating about homesickness and players rorting the system to get to their club of choice and how it's not fair etc. etc. Then nothing will change and next year the same thing will happen with a different player at a different club. The system is a bit stuffed and is never addressed beyond a few rants during trade week.

 

[Max zero]

He’s certainly served his contract in a manner we could never be critical of. But that doesn’t mean that he should necessarily be able to move to a club of his choice without us being adequately compensated. If he had served a period of 7 years with us qualifying him as a free agent then he could do what he wants.

But are you prepared to lose him for nothing in PSD by pushing too hard? Maybe some other club does pick him up before WC in the PSD. We both lose out but at least we keep our picks while you lose your gun player for nothing.

 

[Overhang]

Kelly's price in 2019, as Danger's was, will be limited to whatever currency the target club has.

Can ask for all the top 10 picks you want but odds are neither Freo or WC will have any come the trade period.

Its not about being generous its about basic limitations in trade currency.

Well it's always plausable that you can trade yourself into the top 10. The whole emptying your pockets and saying this is all we have will only get you so far. It wasn't good enough for Geelong when Deledio asked to be traded, Richmond didn't accept our currency we had left and the trade didn't go ahead.

 

[year of the cat]

But are you prepared to lose him for nothing in PSD by pushing too hard? Maybe some other club does pick him up before WC in the PSD. We both lose out but at least we keep our picks while you lose your gun player for nothing.

We both know that it won’t happen. If he decides to go home then a trade with either Freo or WC will be done. We probably will feel a bit ripped off but I do think we’ll get more than what WC were offering us at the end of last year.

 

[Joao]

You can, though.

You shouldn't be able to, but you can. AFL player movement is a joke.

Why Wilson didn't want to join Eagles

FREMANTLE recruit Nathan Wilson has declared it was “Freo or bust” for his trade back to Perth, and vowed to become a support for his childhood mate Harley Bennell.

www.perthnow.com.au

“Freo or bust. I don’t like the Eagles. Put that up,” he said. “You are either Freo or Eagles and I am Freo.”

Hawks secure Gunston

Hawthorn has secured forward Jack Gunston from Adelaide is a trade week exchange involving the swapping of draft picks.

www.theage.com.au

He said Gunston was "pretty excited… he was pretty pumped" about getting to his Victorian club of choice.

Beams requests trade to home state Queensland

Star Pie tells the club he wants to be traded to home state Queensland

www.afl.com.au

The club released a statement saying that the 24-year-old wanted to return to Queensland - where he grew up - for "family reasons".

Winners and losers in the Dayne Beams 'mega-trade'

After taking a breath and letting the overly lengthy draft period wash over me, I want to have a closer look at the drawn-out,…

www.theroar.com.au

After taking a breath and letting the overly lengthy draft period wash over me, I want to have a closer look at the drawn-out, five-club ‘mega-deal’ completed to get Dayne Beams to his desired destination.

I think (hope) his point is that it is difficult to take Kelly's compassionate plea seriously if he wasn't willing to go to Freo. If he just said, "I want to play for West Coast" then I don't think there is a problem. It just looked inconsistent.

FTR, I have absolutely no issue with him wanting to go to only West Coast. In the same way, I have no problem with Geelong wanting more for him at trade.

 

[Scotland]

I think (hope) his point is that it is difficult to take Kelly's compassionate plea seriously if he wasn't willing to go to Freo. If he just said, "I want to play for West Coast" then I don't think there is a problem. It just looked inconsistent.

FTR, I have absolutely no issue with him wanting to go to only West Coast. In the same way, I have no problem with Geelong wanting more for him at trade.

I don't disagree, but it's the red card debate all over again. Something happens, someone doesn't like it and there are claims that 'it shouldn't be like this' and 'it's not fair'. Then nothing happens about it and it happens again in the future. On what basis should Tim Kelly be the example case and on what basis are West Coast the bad guys in (potentially) not offering as much in a trade as Freo?

Adelaide absolutely could have got a better deal trading Dangerfield to another Victorian club. Collingwood arguably could've got a better deal trading Beams to Gold Coast. West Coast arguably could've got a better deal trading Chris Judd to another Victorian club. Etc.

If the AFL are going to do anything at all about 'homesickness' and players nominating clubs they need to do it long before trade week. But they won't.

 

[Joao]

I don't disagree, but it's the red card debate all over again. Something happens, someone doesn't like it and there are claims that 'it shouldn't be like this' and 'it's not fair'. Then nothing happens about it and it happens again in the future. On what basis should Tim Kelly be the example case and on what basis are West Coast the bad guys in (potentially) not offering as much in a trade as Freo?

Adelaide absolutely could have got a better deal trading Dangerfield to another Victorian club. Collingwood arguably could've got a better deal trading Beams to Gold Coast. West Coast arguably could've got a better deal trading Chris Judd to another Victorian club. Etc.

If the AFL are going to do anything at all about 'homesickness' and players nominating clubs they need to do it long before trade week. But they won't.

I don't think West Coast are the bad guys at all. You guys weighed up the situation and offered what you thought he was worth. There is no moral question there.

The whole discussion is just a result of PR gone bad by Kelly's agent. I am not sure it tangibly effected the trade discussions at all. The AFL clubs tend to be more professional than that.

I have no problem with players nominating clubs. It is your workplace and every other profession is allowed to choose. At the same time, whilst in contract, clubs retain the right to refuse to trade you. That is exactly what happened. It's not nearly as big of a deal as made out.

 

[The 747]

Yeah, not 100% like for like, but they feel similar. Maybe cos it's Geelong and a non-vic side again, but with the roles reversed.

Given his season, i don't see how Geelong get value for him one way or another.
If he wins a brownlow, i don't think a reigning medallist has ever moved clubs that year (could be wrong)

We won't get fair value for him if he leaves. That's life. But WCE will have to (and they will) make a decent offer.

 

[West World]

I think (hope) his point is that it is difficult to take Kelly's compassionate plea seriously if he wasn't willing to go to Freo. If he just said, "I want to play for West Coast" then I don't think there is a problem. It just looked inconsistent.

FTR, I have absolutely no issue with him wanting to go to only West Coast. In the same way, I have no problem with Geelong wanting more for him at trade.

Didnt Williams go to Freo from GWS compassionate grounds?