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Wce don't have leverage. He's not going to the draft and if he did and ither teams weren't willing to pick him, Hawthorn would do a live trade and get in before you.
Read back thru the threads at the time bud. Desperate yes, but also made out like bandits.
Shiel and Treloar both went for two good first round picks. Kelly is also as good or better than both.Ablett was old, Dangerfield was a free agent, Treloar being younger doesn't matter, Shiel being contracted doesn't matter.
It's funny how many people exclusively focus on best case scenario and just dismiss anything that doesn't fit that narrative. There are probably a dozen trades over the last 4-5 years you can draw comparisons from, not two.
We will if he chooses us. Again there is theoretical shite and actually what happens and that’s that players get to where they want. Kelly understood he was in contract and accepted it. Who says he would be as understanding next time?
So come back when you start thinking about reality.
I like that you can compare Kelly to other trades all day but then turn around with this response. It must be very cloudy up there.That is wonderful.
So is Kelly 22? Is he under contract? Do we have pick 7 or 9?
That is wonderful.
So is Kelly 22? Is he under contract? Do we have pick 7 or 9?
Ablett was old, Dangerfield was a free agent, Treloar being younger doesn't matter, Shiel being contracted doesn't matter.
It's funny how many people exclusively focus on best case scenario and just dismiss anything that doesn't fit that narrative. There are probably a dozen trades over the last 4-5 years you can draw comparisons from, not two.
I haven't really paid attention to whether traded big names were contracted or not. Are there actually any examples to suggest that uncontracted stars go for less than contracted stars, or is it just bigfooty folklore?WC don't have leverage? Most people would say that an OOC wanting to join your club represents a reasonable state of affairs.
I haven't really paid attention to whether traded big names were contracted or not. Are there actually any examples to suggest that uncontracted stars go for less than contracted stars, or is it just bigfooty folklore?
Is Dangerfield the only example to sustantiate the bigfooty truth of an uncontracted discount?Dylan Shiel went for more than Patrick Dangerfield at the same age. Do you reckon Fremantle and Port get as much for Lachie Neale and Chad Wingard respectively if those players are out of contract?
'Oh but Dangerfield was a free agent'. Yes, a restricted one. Geelong only traded because they knew Adelaide would match the terms.
BigFooty never ceases to amaze. Last year we had to stump up whatever Geelong wanted (i.e. "an exceptional offer, a top 10 pick, or more.") because Kelly was contracted. This year Kelly being out of contract makes no difference. Cool.
ps. It's cute that you think you have some kind of say in any trade WCE is involved in.
Is Dangerfield the only example to sustantiate the bigfooty truth of an uncontracted discount?
You want me to summarise every traded player for you?
Lol you don't pay 2 first round picks for a bloke that is out of contract and only been in the system for 2 years. No matter how good they are. Any suggestions of being considered on par with the Shield trade are ludicrous.GWS and Gold Coast were fairly compensated for the OOC Shiel, Treloar and O’Meara, all of which are comparable trades.
Kelly is absolutely worth two first round picks.
No. I'm just curious if there is actually any justification for the theory that uncontracted stars go cheaper than contracted stars, as I'm skeptical of the theory. Seeing you are suggesting it's the case, I'm asking you. If you don't know, just say so. If anyone else does know I'd be happy for the info. Cheers.
Lol you don't pay 2 first round picks for a bloke that is out of contract and only been in the system for 2 years. No matter how good they are. Any suggestions of being considered on par with the Shield trade are ludicrous.
It's a narrow way of looking at it. Value is arbitrary, so people will argue what is fair and what isn't for every trade.
We don't know what Dylan Shiel would have been traded for last year if he was out of contract, that's hypothetical. But we do know that GWS were happy to let him explore his options ahead of free agency and happy to retain him for 2019 if no suitable offer was presented. I don't know how anyone can argue that clubs have stronger leverage with contracted players allowing them to get the best deal, but when players are out of contract that isn't something that may drive the trade value down. That's nuts. Not a chance in hell Adelaide take picks 9 and 28 and Dean Gore in 2014 when Dangerfield is under contract.
If you have an out of contract player that has nominated a club they wish to join and that club doesn't have draft picks of commensurate value then that is not a position you want to be in. We got pick 28 for Brad Ebert. Now he wasn't a superstar but a 21 year old pick 13 with 76 games in 4 years was someone we wanted to retain. Most of us thought something in the range of 15-25 was fair, and Port had 6 and 28. We got 28 and that's how trading works a lot of the time.
Fair point, and you may have changed my mind.Most neutral supporters disagree with you.
The entirety of Shiel's accolades at GWS were 1x All Australian and 1x Rising Star nomination.
He's a very good player but so is Kelly.
Unless Kelly's form drops off a cliff from here, or he gets injured, by the end of the year he will also have 1x All Australian, 1x B&F in a team that looks likely to be top 4 and a very high placing in the Brownlow (potentially winning it).
The only possible argument for their trade value not being equal is that Shiel was contracted and Kelly won't be if he requests a trade.
Do you know which of these were uncontracted?Some other trades that may be similar:
Tim Mitchell and Pick 57
for
Pick 14 and Pick 52
Jaeger O'Meara
for
Pick 10 and 2017 Second Round Pick
Patrick Dangerfield and Pick 50
for
Dean Gore, Pick 9 and Pick 28
Jack Redden
for
Pick 17
Chris Yarren
for
Pick 19
Jake Stringer
for
Pick 25 and Pick 30
Charlie Cameron
for
Pick 12
Not sure. Just trying to get a handle on his value without all the dick-measuring.Do you know which of these were uncontracted?