- Aug 22, 2009
- 24,445
- 28,080
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- West Coast
Yeah all that’s true.
But just looking at the two deals side by side, the difference was
Giving up 28 and 31
or
Giving up 2020 first but getting back pick 50.
Traded Tim Kelly [traded with #57 and future 3rd to West Coast for #14, #24, #33 and future 1st]
- Thread starter Lore
- Start date
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Yeah all that’s true.
But just looking at the two deals side by side, the difference was
Giving up 28 and 31
or
Giving up 2020 first but getting back pick 50.
- May 5, 2006
- 62,726
- 70,017
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- West Coast
I think it's just a comparison of the respective picks. If you go down that path then you have to adjust what our 2019 picks would be.
Personally I'd take 23, 25 and 2019 1st (if that's what it was, was never and will never be confirmed) going out and an extra year of Kelly over the 2019 deal. But we ended up with O'Neill-Foley-Williams and pick 24 this year after dicking around with 23 & 25 so will wait and see how that pans out also.
Its over but you think you kept TK on the poverty pack?
- May 5, 2006
- 62,726
- 70,017
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- West Coast
And one season of good but not AA level form was a reason we didn't sell any farms.
They had to.
- just jumped in my boat
not familiar with an audit, unless you are saying its straight duddng the system?
There have been rumours around Geelong and players getting property for $1 and a few gorillas in the Costa fruit delivery for a while. All clubs do this to some degree, just having a bit of fun with it....
Ask Carlton about getting caught ....
That is the most convoluted set of backflips to show that, somehow, p20+p22+ future first > p14, p24, p37, and a future first.
Anyway, the real cost of not doing the Kelly deal is that you probably would have finished top-2 and had home finals in 2019.
- Aug 22, 2009
- 24,445
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I agree on your second point.
On your first point, it’s just a factual comparison of the two deals - it boils down to:
28 and 31
or
our 2020 first with a third rounder coming back
- May 5, 2006
- 62,726
- 70,017
- AFL Club
- West Coast
It's double accounting, though. If we trade 23 and 25 last year then we can't have 24 this year.
If we'd done the trade last year (23, 25, future 1st) then Geelong would have had 23 and 25 to use/trade last year and nominally 14 this year.
We would've entered the 2018 draft in the third round and then nominally had picks 33, 51 and whatever St Kilda's fourth round pick is (Hickey trade) this year.
But yes it's a sliding doors moment and team performance isn't independent of the trade. In the event there was a 1st for 2nd or 2nd for 3rd pick swap then if you factor in WC's pick getting worse then you should also factor in Geelong's getting better. Geelong prioritised keeping Kelly for 2019 over picks in the 2018 draft and subsequently had no picks between 15 and 48. Which is their prerogative.
From our POV it's O'Neill, Foley, Williams, Cameron in 2018, Kelly and picks 46 and 91 this year, whoever we pick from the second round onward next year. Do the trade (23, 25, future 1st) and it becomes Cameron and Kelly 2018, picks 33 and 51 this year, whoever we pick from the first round next year.
On paper last year's deal is better, if it was ever going to be agreed - which I don't think it was. But like all trades involving picks it will end up being viewed based on how the players taken turn out. Geelong could go full 2010s Geelong and waste two first rounders and then pick up stars with 24 and 37 and people will say they won the trade. We will be hoping that the 3 guys we picked up between 28 and 35 in last year's stronger draft turn out to be good players for us and we don't miss too much in 19/20. It's done now, each clubs knows what they have/don't have going forward.
Certainly a back flip if you ignore the fact a year has gone by, this year we are not reigning premiers. I for one understood why a deal was not done, & supported it, not a question of who is to blame Romper Room style.
The real cost is what we paid, nothing else - my approach this year was whatever it takes.
Understand you see your comments as a win, good luck to you.
Oh we are being all pure now? I am sure WCE have never used their contacts to assist their players to get good deals, hooked them up with a sweet sponsor deal or anything of that nature. There is no corruption in WA of course.
We took the amnesty offered in the 90s, Carlton didnt.
Not a fan of unattributed whispers ....... I've been there in the old days when the folding was distributed. Bit harder these days, e.g why Cooky asked the AFL over Kelly, so pardon me for ignoring the 'ín the know'.
What is undisputable is the value in life after footy, business opportunities from the dollars earned during the career.
I meant more so as in including all your future trading that was later done with those picks in-draft, and using those excellent deals to inflate the worth of your 2018 offer.
Splitting p23 into p27 and p32 with the Gold Coast was pretty exceptional by the way, as was swapping round p24 and your 2019 3rd, for p26 and their future 2nd with Sydney (what a steal!). But that's a reflection on some great deals done after the Kelly trade or otherwise, not on the Kelly trade itself.
It's like saying that we orchestrated a trade deal with West Coast to trade our 2017 p24 for their 2019 p14, p24, p37 and 2020 1st round.
Tbone McGraw
Norm Smith Medallist
- Mar 9, 2012
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I was thinking about this trade last night. (yeah I was bored)
So it is a win/win.
Eagles win short term. Now a massive chance at another flag in the near future.
Cats may win long term. Wells with those draft picks is very scary. However, if cats can also get Jack Steven, they are still in the premiership window massively.
So it is a win/win.
Eagles win short term. Now a massive chance at another flag in the near future.
Cats may win long term. Wells with those draft picks is very scary. However, if cats can also get Jack Steven, they are still in the premiership window massively.
Last edited:
- Aug 22, 2009
- 24,445
- 28,080
- AFL Club
- West Coast
I was just summarising the opportunity cost to us of accepting the deal. 20 and 22 were bloody valuable picks, as shown by what we turned them into.
Bit like the Judd deal, but we get the proven performer this time. The Cats & Wells have form, they'll get it right.
As a cats supporter these tim kelly threads have been so rewarding.
Watching eagles fans constantly have to reassess upwards how much they would need to pay for him and then come to terms with it.
Just two weeks ago many eagles supporters thought it would be:
Tim kelly for pick 14 and jack steven (somehow eagles fans thought they would extract all the rent from steven wanting to come to geelong through trading unders with the saints).
But no it was this golden egg:
Geelong out: tim kelly, geelong next years second
Geelong in: 14, 24, josh jenkins, eagles nexts years first, gold coast next years third and ofcourse jack steven.
Wells is usually a sh*t trader but this year it was a thing of beauty. Art in fact.
He screwed over eagles, saints and crows all in one go.
Watching eagles fans constantly have to reassess upwards how much they would need to pay for him and then come to terms with it.
Just two weeks ago many eagles supporters thought it would be:
Tim kelly for pick 14 and jack steven (somehow eagles fans thought they would extract all the rent from steven wanting to come to geelong through trading unders with the saints).
But no it was this golden egg:
Geelong out: tim kelly, geelong next years second
Geelong in: 14, 24, josh jenkins, eagles nexts years first, gold coast next years third and ofcourse jack steven.
Wells is usually a sh*t trader but this year it was a thing of beauty. Art in fact.
He screwed over eagles, saints and crows all in one go.
weird that Cats fans were so obsessed with dealing with Freo then....
Thats cos we didnt think eagles would come to the table with a good offer. But in the end your offer was glorious. Screw freo.
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