Opinion VICBias - Genuine Discussion

[Carringbush2010]

Some eagles fans jumped ship and became dockers fans. But Not all Dockers fans in 1995 are ex eagles fans.

Probably coz they're originally bulldogs fans, so not so loyal, yet all the wc and freo cry foul about the AFL with their new teams.

If they're so disloyal, why all the complaining?

I am born and Still Live in this Alien state you Call South Australia.

Dunno I live in Perth, stated so on my avatar

Now which WAFL fans jumped ship to Follow the dockers? Some East Freo fans did.

Yep, so Falcons and Royal fans would jump ship again for a 3rd wa club if it was one of those.

Once again, not very loyal, dump them and jump ship to wc and then dump wc coz they're original wafl club gets a licence.

Says a lot.

Claremont fans got on Board too. Gerrard Neesham was the dockers coach in 1995. His previous Coaching Job from 1987-1994 was coaching Claremont to the 1987, 1989, 1991 and 1993 flags. Ben Allan was From Claremont, played 94 games for the hawks from 1990-94, became the dockers captain in 1995.

Its no different to The crows. Graham Cornes was Crows coach in 1991. His previous job was coaching Glenelg in the SANFL from 1985-1990. We won flags in 1985-86, lost the 1987-8 and 1990 grand finals. Crows 1st captain was Chris McDermott, Crows 2nd Captain was Tony McGuiness. Guess where both those blokes played in the SANFL? Yep Both under Graham Cornes in Glenelg.

Port Adelaide Similar thing. Port Powers 1st coach was Jack Cahill in 1997-8. His Previous coaching stint was Port Magpies in the SANFL from 1988-1996. Wont SANFL flags in 1988-90, 1992, then 1994-6. Port Powers 1st captain Was Gavin Wanganeen. Remember him? You Remember him playing 127 games for essendon from 1991-96, Before playing for Port from 1997-2006. I remember Gavin playing SANFL for the Port Magpies in 1990.

Yes I know all this, not sure what the point is.

 

[Carringbush2010]

This honestly brought me so much joy to read. I genuinely smiled! I've already messaged my boss that I can't make it in to work tomorrow.

Reason being, first thing in the morning, I'm going to head into OfficeWorks with your quote in hand and spend the day trying to find the perfect font, paper, sizing and frame to print of copy of this masterpiece and modern day wisdom. I'm not sure if you have been into an OfficeWorks but some of the paper (especially the glossy stuff) can get pretty expensive. We are talking up to a $1 a sheet! No expense will be spared here as the quality needs to be high as I think it's something that may form part of my estate and be passed down to my children's children.

When I get kicked out of OfficeWorks at 3:45pm, I'll head home where I plan on finding the exact and perfect angle to place my newly printed picture on my Ikea wardrobe, located in my bedroom. I have a small light which would be perfect to nestle into position at the bottom of the picture, pointed upwards. The plan here is for the light to illuminate your quote in an otherwise dark room, becoming the guiding star for my wife and boyfriend as they go about their business, whilst I sit in the corner.

And it is in that moment, whilst reading your quote, I am at peace.

So no more whinging from you then.

Great!

 

[Freomaniac]

Probably coz they're originally bulldogs fans, so not so loyal, yet all the wc and freo cry foul about the AFL with their new teams.

If they're so disloyal, why all the complaining?

Dunno I live in Perth, stated so on my avatar

Yep, so Falcons and Royal fans would jump ship again for a 3rd wa club if it was one of those.

Once again, not very loyal, dump them and jump ship to wc and then dump wc coz they're original wafl club gets a licence.

Says a lot.

Yes I know all this, not sure what the point is.

So did Some North Melbounre fans jump ship from Collingwood after North entered the VFL in 1925?

 

[Carringbush2010]

So did Some North Melbounre fans jump ship from Collingwood after North entered the VFL in 1925?

Wouldn't have thought so, North was already an established club with their own supporters.

 

[Freomaniac]

Wouldn't have thought so, North was already an established club with their own supporters.

so can this 3rd WA club become an established club like the 10 other vic clubs?

 

[Captivating]

Would Collingwood fans prefer this kind of fixture? (hi doppleganger)

10 games at home against WC/Freo/Adelaide/Port/GC/Brisbane/GWS/Sydney at the MCG
2 games at home against Essendon and Carlton at the MCG
10 games away against WC etc at their home grounds

Just curious...

Fixturing makes very little difference

Over the past 10 years, 3 or 4 of the 8 non Vic teams have made finals every year. So that's 37.5 - 50% of non Vic teams make finals.

So that means 4 or 5 of the 10 Vic teams make finals, so that's 40% to 50%.

The chances of making finals are the same. What non Vic teams lose in travelling, they gain in more genuine home games. What Vic teams lose in genuine home games, they gain from less travel.

 

[Carringbush2010]

so can this 3rd WA club become an established club like the 10 other vic clubs?

If current wc and freo supporter jump off wc and freo, then yes.

 

[sr36]

No you bloody dont.

North Melbourne or North Victoria. Theres North Melbourne, Carlton, Essendon and Collingwood. Fitzroy was in the Northern Suburbs of Victoria too.

I know about Melbourne geography. Those clubs formed in a different environment.

A new club in Perth would be starting in an environment where everyone barracks for WCE Freo or doesn't follow footy. How are they going to carve out their own market? It's the same in Adelaide.

 

[HTPunter]

Over a 5 year span each Vic club should give up 1 home game to WA.

That’s 1 extra WA home game for each of the Eagles & Dockers, while the Vic clubs end up with what, 54 home games instead of 55 over 5 years? Which probably translates into averaging across the 10 clubs maybe 159 Victorian games instead of 160 ?

This prevents SA clubs losing Gather Round - which is really a great indicator of our society (kind of how middle class citizens want poor people to receive less welfare, instead of wanting the super rich to get less tax breaks).

It just makes way too much sense. The small Vic clubs should just accept it because of the funding they get, the big Vic clubs while whine like ****ing babies but ultimately they get 16-17 Vic games a year, they’ll get over it. We can even get them business class seats!

 

[Captivating]

Over a 5 year span each Vic club should give up 1 home game to WA.

That’s 1 extra WA home game for each of the Eagles & Dockers, while the Vic clubs end up with what, 54 home games instead of 55 over 5 years? Which probably translates into averaging across the 10 clubs maybe 159 Victorian games instead of 160 ?

This prevents SA clubs losing Gather Round - which is really a great indicator of our society (kind of how middle class citizens want poor people to receive less welfare, instead of wanting the super rich to get less tax breaks).

It just makes way too much sense. The small Vic clubs should just accept it because of the funding they get, the big Vic clubs while whine like ******* babies but ultimately they get 16-17 Vic games a year, they’ll get over it. We can even get them business class seats!

Why? Only twice in the past 10 years have both Freo and WCE missed finals? So 80% of the time, one or both WA teams are playing finals?

That doesn't suggest they are disadvantaged at all.

 

[Forward Press]

Why? Once twice in the past 10 years have both Freo and WCE missed finals? So 80% of the time, one or both WA teams is playing finals?

That doesn't suggest they are disadvantaged at all.

So would you prefer your club have the type of fixture I suggested then?

10 games at home against WC/Freo/Adelaide/Port/GC/Brisbane/GWS/Sydney at the MCG
2 games at home against Essendon and Carlton at the MCG
10 games away against WC etc at their home grounds

Yes or no.

 

[Forward Press]

And since we're on the business of selective stats...

In the past 10 years, only one non-Victorian team has won a flag - and that was by under a kick. That is 10%, compared to non-Victorian teams making up nearly 50% of all AFL sides.

 

[Carn The Berries]

How long until we hear about the hurr durr Vic Bias... in the VFL?

West Coast’s continued beltings could end WAFL argument

West Coast’s poor start to the WAFL season could be the final straw in a potential decision to leave the State league for a national reserves competition.

thewest.com.au

Surely, if travel causes such an imbalance, joining a competition that exists exclusively on the east coast makes things... well... worse....??

 

[sr36]

Fixturing makes very little difference

Over the past 10 years, 3 or 4 of the 8 non Vic teams have made finals every year. So that's 37.5 - 50% of non Vic teams make finals.

So that means 4 or 5 of the 10 Vic teams make finals, so that's 40% to 50%.

The chances of making finals are the same. What non Vic teams lose in travelling, they gain in more genuine home games. What Vic teams lose in genuine home games, they gain from less travel.

Yeah this is the thing. Data doesn't suggest that the Home and Away favours Victorian teams. Non-Vic teams have done just as well in the home and away. If it resulted in vic teams finishing artificially higher, you'd expect to see them getting rolled in finals - however, it has tended to be Non-Vic teams who have lost more home finals and been bundled out.

 

[Captivating]

And since we're on the business of selective stats...

In the past 10 years, only one non-Victorian team has won a flag - and that was by under a kick. That is 10%, compared to non-Victorian teams making up nearly 50% of all AFL sides.

Lets look at Grand Finals shall we:

2023 - Team finished on top of the ladder won the GF
2022 - Team finished on top of the ladder won the GF
2021 - Team finished on top of the ladder won the GF
2020 - Non Vic team finished 1 and 2. Neither qualified for GF despite having home finals
2019 - 3rd best team beat the 6th best team
2018 - non Vic Premiership - finished 2nd after H&A beat 3rd best team
2017 - Non Vic team finished 1st, lost to 3rd best team (Vic Bias confirmed with Richmond home game)
2016 - Non Vic team finished 1st, lost to 7th best team (Vic team's home ground is Marvel) - no Vic Bias
2015 - Non Vic team finished 1st and 2nd. 2nd finishing team lost to 3rd best team (Vic Bias - maybe, but also Hawthorn were an unbelievably good team)
2014 - Non Vic team finished 1st, lost to 2nd best team (Vic Bias - maybe, but also Hawthorn were an unbelievably good team)

You can argue Hawthorn (2014 and 2015) and Richmond (2017) were favoured by a GF at their home ground.

We can then dissect those 3 games and I'd say those teams win regardless of where they play the game given they absolutely dominated their opponent on the day.

 

[Carn The Berries]

View attachment 1996919

F*** me, Damo has changed his tune since his days of not wanting to travel all the way to... Marvel Stadium

 

[Forward Press]

Lets look at Grand Finals shall we:

2016 - Non Vic team finished 1st, lost to 7th best team
You can argue Hawthorn (2014 and 2015) and Richmond (2017) were favoured by a GF at their home ground.

Thank you for your honesty.

Edit - the 2015 claim that they would've won anywhere on that day is disingenuous because the same side lost to West Coast in Perth three weeks before.

 

[RUNVS]

Yeah this is the thing. Data doesn't suggest that the Home and Away favours Victorian teams. Non-Vic teams have done just as well in the home and away. If it resulted in vic teams finishing artificially higher, you'd expect to see them getting rolled in finals - however, it has tended to be Non-Vic teams who have lost more home finals and been bundled out.

That is just wrong. These stats are a bit old now but still relevant.

 

[Forward Press]

So would you prefer your club have the type of fixture I suggested then?

10 games at home against WC/Freo/Adelaide/Port/GC/Brisbane/GWS/Sydney at the MCG
2 games at home against Essendon and Carlton at the MCG
10 games away against WC etc at their home grounds

Yes or no.

Still haven't answered this one btw Captivating

 

[Captivating]

Still haven't answered this one btw Captivating

The answer is yes. As shown, it wouldn't increase or decrease the probability of making finals.

 

[Forward Press]

The answer is yes. As shown, it wouldn't increase or decrease the probability of making finals.

Thank you. You should forward it onto the club administration.

 

[Papa G]

Id prefer a completely random fixture.

Scrap the 6-6-6 handicapping.
Scrap the double Derby, dbl Pies v Ess etc
Scrap the ANZAC day is Pies v Dons
Scrap trying to play BLOCKBUSTERS on Friday night

If it remains at 23 games (including gather round) so for Collingwood 11 home games at the G and 11 away games wherever they fall plus the gather round game.

Just pick the six teams clubs will double up against and the remaining away v home piece completely at random.

But I am aware that the commercial impacts will mean that doesnt eventuate, especially as the WA teams wont give up the locked in double derby.

I think the next best option is to expand to 20 teams, and then create smaller geographic based divisions that end up having the exact same fixture. You are then primarily ranked against your division and finals is top from each division and then work out an approach to determine the next best if wanting to go to a finals consisting od 8 / 10 teams.

This is about the only sensible thing you have ever said. Bar the 20 teams (Just **** off North they serve no purpose), I pretty much agree.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Still haven't answered this one btw Captivating

It's not how it works though is it?

The 10 away games should be 8 at the home grounds
1 at 2nd home ground, eg. GWS in Canberra.
1 at another teams home ground, eg GC at the Gabba.

This is the difference of Collingwood making the 8 and finishing top 4 when they have a fairly strong team.
Yeah, i'd take it.

 

[doppleganger]

You can argue Hawthorn (2014 and 2015) and Richmond (2017) were favoured by a GF at their home ground.

We can then dissect those 3 games and I'd say those teams win regardless of where they play the game given they absolutely dominated their opponent on the day.

That is the problem with the sooking.

Hawthorn were a strong team who went through finals heartache in 2011 and 2012, before going on their run. They were clearly the best list and deserved premiers.

And Richmond were good enough to win multiple finals away from the G during their glory run.

The reason why non-vic sides aint won more premierships, is because they lose so many home finals to travelling Melbourne teams.

 

[doppleganger]

That is just wrong. These stats are a bit old now but still relevant.

Of the top 7 ranked teams, 6 are nonMelbourne teams (those who have an actual home ground advantage) and the 7th is Tassie Hawks the Melbourne team that decided to travel to get a unique home ground.

All the Melbourne clubs are in the lower cluster.

I agree that they are still relevant, as it shows that if you want to win games of footy your best bet is to have a home ground and not be based in Melbourne.