Opinion VICBias - Genuine Discussion

[doppleganger]

Lol what?

I'll have some of what you're smoking

Teams who give up home advantage are the ones at a disadvantage during H&A.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Ok, thats true and anyone who knows their history would agree with that, but doesnt that render the argument "interstate licences saved the Victorian clubs!" argument pretty ineffective, since each region needed each other.

And considering when you get down to brass tacks the central reason there was never a multi state breakaway super league is that no bastard could afford to fund such a massive operation, let alone keep their clubs solvent in the leagues they were already in, and seeing as how the original NFL was such a circus of warring parties eventually the budget option of sloppily expanding an existing state league into the defacto national league was settled on out of necessity (in other words even if you could break the laws of physics, build a time machine and go back 37 years you still wouldn't be able to get an independent super league off the ground)

With all that in mind, isn't this whole endless shisenfight pretty pointless and redundant?

(unlike all the other life affirming, intellectually fulfilling, cogently reasoned discussions that pepper the Bigfooty landscape)

Not a lot to disagree with there. I would say in hindsight now that there is no way the WA would of run to join the VFL knowing what they know now and they would of got together with SA and come in to a national comp on far different terms and set up. But hindsight is a wonderful thing.

You are never going to get rid of opinions on an opinion board, BF is simply where people come to talk footy and provide opinions. Of course many disagree and thats the fun of it I think.

 

[Spirit Level]

Teams who give up home advantage are the ones at a disadvantage during H&A.

Teams who get 14 games at their home ground and only have to travel 5 times get a distinct advantage during H&A

 

[VicBased]

Yeah the Saints are really reaping those Marvel benefits...... The interstate supporters sooking is ridiculous.

Not our fault your team is crap and can't rise to the occasion afforded them.

 

[sr36]

The reality si that all 3 major state leagues were in the crapper. The WAFL and the SANFL needed the transfer fees to survive as they had really become a feed league to the VFL. And the VFL were poaching and paying players money that the league or the clubs did not have.

Footy was not in a good space anywhere financially.

Yeah it was Vic club cowboys mismanaging stuff and overspending in an arm's race rather than a revenue issue that was sending club's broke. Thank **** for the salary cap.

 

[doppleganger]

Teams who get 14 games at their home ground and only have to travel 5 times get a distinct advantage during H&A

Aint no advantage in playing a local derby, both teams knownthe ground, they are neutral games.

And ask WA teams, big local derbies are the most taxing of games.

Teams who get 13 games at their home ground, 11 of which they have a true home advantage are best off.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Not a lot to disagree with there. I would say in hindsight now that there is no way the WA would of run to join the VFL knowing what they know now and they would of got together with SA and come in to a national comp on far different terms and set up. But hindsight is a wonderful thing.

You are never going to get rid of opinions on an opinion board, BF is simply where people come to talk footy and provide opinions. Of course many disagree and thats the fun of it I think.

Got to together with SA to form a rival comp

Sure they would

 

[Carringbush2010]

Unlike the old days, people outside of Vic wouldn't follow the old VFL clubs anymore.

Half the Melbourne clubs would die off very quickly without the revenue the established interstate sides bring in.

Would be one step closer to an equitable national competition though.

You do realise that all the vic clubs are member owned, right?. So they're not gonna die off at all.

Those clubs will just follow where their clubs go.

 

[Carringbush2010]

If those 2 clubs did not exist there would be no national comp. WAFL would still be king here.

And that's what it should be! So all those non loyal fan base you talk about would all of a sudden be loyal, got it.

It's a win win, non Vic's can't complain anymore and we compete against our original enemies, not expansion clubs

 

[Carringbush2010]

Ok, thats true and anyone who knows their history would agree with that, but doesnt that render the argument "interstate licences saved the Victorian clubs!" argument pretty ineffective, since each region needed each other.

And considering when you get down to brass tacks the central reason there was never a multi state breakaway super league is that no bastard could afford to fund such a massive operation, let alone keep their clubs solvent in the leagues they were already in, and seeing as how the original NFL was such a circus of warring parties eventually the budget option of sloppily expanding an existing state league into the defacto national league was settled on out of necessity (in other words even if you could break the laws of physics, build a time machine and go back 37 years you still wouldn't be able to get an independent super league off the ground)

With all that in mind, isn't this whole endless shisenfight pretty pointless and redundant?

(unlike all the other life affirming, intellectually fulfilling, cogently reasoned discussions that pepper the Bigfooty landscape)

/thread

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Got to together with SA to form a rival comp

Sure they would

Never to form a rival comp but hold firm and not let Victoria set the rules of the national comp, the VFL needed WA and SA. If they had of stuck together and said we will only join if ….. happens then terms might not be as they are.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

And that's what it should be! So all those non loyal fan base you talk about would all of a sudden be loyal, got it.

It's a win win, non Vic's can't complain anymore and we compete against our original enemies, not expansion clubs

Make it happen mate.

 

[longdonkey]

The first step to make the draw more equal is making the teams who get to play their away game v Geelong at the MCG go down to Cardigan Park. Also Hawthorn and North Melbourne play all their home games in Melbourne not Tasmania.

 

[Mibie]

Not our fault your team is crap and can't rise to the occasion afforded them.

That’s my point…

 

[Carringbush2010]

Make it happen mate.

Not up to me mate,

All the non vics need to vote with your remotes and your feet.

Make it happen!

 

[Carringbush2010]

The first step to make the draw more equal is making the teams who get to play their away game v Geelong at the MCG go down to Cardigan Park. Also Hawthorn and North Melbourne play all their home games in Melbourne not Tasmania.

Call dill, see how ya go with that.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Never to form a rival comp but hold firm and not let Victoria set the rules of the national comp, the VFL needed WA and SA. If they had of stuck together and said we will only join if ….. happens then terms might not be as they are.

Read post 8100 again.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Call dill, see how ya go with that.

Why don’t the clubs want it fair? Surely if the clubs said Dillon we want to play in a fair and equitable comp then the clubs would have some say. They could get the fans behind them.
I wonder why the clubs don’t want it sorted??

 

[Carringbush2010]

Why don’t the clubs want it fair? Surely if the clubs said Dillon we want to play in a fair and equitable comp then the clubs would have some say. They could get the fans behind them.
I wonder why the clubs don’t want it sorted??

Ok let's delve a little deeper.

Let's use the Pies, apart from the cats (given hga vs travel) they're probably the most 'advantaged'

Let's pretend for one minute that we came up with a fixture that saw the Pies travel more, away from their state.

For starters the members would be less enticed to be members because of that, they get to see their team play less = unhappy members, 2ndly whatever advantage a club has, perceived or real, again that works for their members. So the clubs aren't gonna give that up.

So clubs aren't gonna argue for fair, like in life, organizations and humans in general, in competition (basically every organization), aren't gonna give up any advantage, fair or otherwise.

What Woolly Mammoth said in that post is pretty much bang on, and as I think you may have conceded.

All the 3 big leagues were in deep financial trouble, and they all needed each other to bail each other out. So it's not just a case of 'we bailed the vics out, now you owe us'.

So now we're here, with given factors like geography and market, it seems the intent is to be as even as possible, ok they don't get everything right, and I can understand from a non vic pov, how it all sucks.

But this is not a deliberate conspiracy as many have openly alluded they think it is.

So there's two choices. And the beauty is that non vics DO have choice.

-Accept
-Collectively vote with your remotes and feet

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Ok let's delve a little deeper.

Let's use the Pies, apart from the cats (given hga vs travel) they're probably the most 'advantaged'

Let's pretend for one minute that we came up with a fixture that saw the Pies travel more, away from their state.

For starters the members would be less enticed to be members because of that, they get to see their team play less = unhappy members, 2ndly whatever advantage a club has, perceived or real, again that works for their members. So the clubs aren't gonna give that up.

So clubs aren't gonna argue for fair, like in life, organizations and humans in general, in competition (basically every organization), aren't gonna give up any advantage, fair or otherwise.

What Woolly Mammoth said in that post is pretty much bang on, and as I think you may have conceded.

All the 3 big leagues were in deep financial trouble, and they all needed each other to bail each other out. So it's not just a case of 'we bailed the vics out, now you owe us'.

So now we're here, with given factors like geography and market, it seems the intent is to be as even as possible, ok they don't get everything right, and I can understand from a non vic pov, how it all sucks.

But this is not a deliberate conspiracy as many have openly alluded they think it is.

So there's two choices. And the beauty is that non vics DO have choice.

-Accept
-Collectively vote with your remotes and feet

And the Vics and their clubs need to accept that this crap if we joined your league is a 30 year old line that has no credence anymore. The WCE are as big a part of the AFL as Collingwood are ur any other club are and their fans of either club are entitled to have their views. That some might be a little misguided I agree but the fans are still entitled.
They are not going to go back to the WAFL and they are not going to just shut up if they think the deal is not great.
So those VIC fans have a choice, either listen and debate it or stop reading what you don’t want to hear.

 

[Carringbush2010]

And the Vics and their clubs need to accept that this crap if we joined your league is a 30 year old line that has no credence anymore

As I said in the post you replied to, we're here now and there are choices. I agree the vfl and sanfl and the wafl would've likely gone under if the vfl expansion didn't happen.

Even then the big clubs in all of those leagues wouldn't have just died off into the sunset just coz the leagues went under, there was always enough public interest to keep the big clubs alive.

What we have is what we have and there are choices.

The WCE are as big a part of the AFL as Collingwood are ur any other club are and their fans of either club are entitled to have their views.

From here it looks that way, but nationally the Pies have a much higher profile. This point is moot anyway.

North also has just as much right to be here and their fans are entitled to push back on death riding / merging suggestions.

Ultimately North and the Pies were here 1st before WC, so you can see why the vic fans get their back up when death riding is suggested.

Just as much as non vics are allowed their views, vic fans just as much have the right to have their views.

They are not going to go back to the WAFL and they are not going to just shut up if they think the deal is not great.

Then they can enjoy the misery, won't stop us calling it out.

So those VIC fans have a choice, either listen and debate it or stop reading what you don’t want to hear.

We've listened and debated for 20 odd years! We're gonna read and gonna explain like we have infinitum the reasons for non vics position. (well most of us anyway)

 

[greatwhiteshark]

As I said in the post you replied to, we're here now and there are choices. I agree the vfl and sanfl and the wafl would've likely gone under if the vfl expansion didn't happen.

Even then the big clubs in all of those leagues wouldn't have just died off into the sunset just coz the leagues went under, there was always enough public interest to keep the big clubs alive.

What we have is what we have and there are choices.

From here it looks that way, but nationally the Pies have a much higher profile. This point is moot anyway.

North also has just as much right to be here and their fans are entitled to push back on death riding / merging suggestions.

Ultimately North and the Pies were here 1st before WC, so you can see why the vic fans get their back up when death riding is suggested.

Just as much as non vics are allowed their views, vic fans just as much have the right to have their views.

Then they can enjoy the misery, won't stop us calling it out.

We've listened and debated for 20 odd years! We're gonna read and gonna explain like we have infinitum the reasons for non vics position. (well most of us anyway)

That’s all cool, you will be rewriting it for decades to come I feel.

 

[garlic munchers]

It’s like flogs that but a house next to an airport then bitch about the noise. Go back to your provincial home spun state leagues if you don’t want to play with the big boys.

You mean like flog States that ban oil and gas exploration and whine about energy prices?

You mean like flog States that show no fiscal responsibility and whine that everybody else should bail them out with extra GST because they are massively in debt and couldn’t balance a brick on a concrete floor?

You mean like those flogs sprouting how they are the economic powerhouse of Australia when they rely on overseas immigration for GDP, produce bugger all and are a giant Ponzi scheme relying on everyone but Tassie to bail them out?

You mean like those flogs who bid for the Commonwealth Games without doing proper due diligence and then blatantly lie when it gets a bit hard for the poor diddums?

You mean like flogs that repeatedly voted for Comrade Dan to lead them to the promised land?

 

[Carringbush2010]

You mean like flog States that ban oil and gas exploration and whine about energy prices?

You mean like flog States that show no fiscal responsibility and whine that everybody else should bail them out with extra GST because they are massively in debt and couldn’t balance a brick on a concrete floor?

You mean like those flogs sprouting how they are the economic powerhouse of Australia when they rely on overseas immigration for GDP, produce bugger all and are a giant Ponzi scheme relying on everyone but Tassie to bail them out?

You mean like those flogs who bid for the Commonwealth Games without doing proper due diligence and then blatantly lie when it gets a bit hard for the poor diddums?

You mean like flogs that repeatedly voted for Comrade Dan to lead them to the promised land?

SRP board that way>

 

[ghostbat12]

That’s right, what happened happened by joining vfl 40 years ago, and therefore no changes are ever possible or therefore allowed.

And of course “thats just the way it is”.

There are big powerful non-vic clubs looking for changes. “Thats just the way it is”.