Opinion VICBias - Genuine Discussion

[sr36]

Would Collingwood fans prefer this kind of fixture? (hi doppleganger)

10 games at home against WC/Freo/Adelaide/Port/GC/Brisbane/GWS/Sydney at the MCG
2 games at home against Essendon and Carlton at the MCG
10 games away against WC etc at their home grounds

Just curious...

So we're shifting from teams being advantaged to fans being advantaged?

I particularly wouldn't want to be a WCE supporter who can't get into a game. All roads lead to dissolving WCE.

 

[Forward Press]

So we're shifting from teams being advantaged to fans being advantaged?

I particularly wouldn't want to be a WCE supporter who can't get into a game. All roads lead to dissolving WCE.

As always, my hypothetical never gets answered.

Fine - would you want your side to have that fixture instead of the one they currently have? Just a simple yes or no.

 

[sr36]

As always, my hypothetical never gets answered.

Fine - would you want your side to have that fixture instead of the one they currently have?

My answer was a Melbourne based fan wouldn't want that fixture as they'd get to go to less games. No idea how the maths work with that fixture so it's kind of irrelevant too.

But that fixture would sees us in the same neutral position in terms of home ground advantage, but with more travel - so no, the team wouldn't want it either.

I agree that travel is a disadvantage for the WA teams. Home ground advantage is a different thing though - it's net neutral for the WA teams.

 

[Forward Press]

My answer was a Melbourne based fan wouldn't want that fixture as they'd get to go to less games. No idea how the maths work with that fixture so it's kind of irrelevant too.

But that fixture would sees us in the same neutral position in terms of home ground advantage, but with more travel - so no, the team wouldn't want it either.

I agree that travel is a disadvantage for the WA teams. Home ground advantage is a different thing though - it's net neutral for the WA teams.

So no.

Thanks for the answer. Does this not prove that Victorian-based club supporters claiming that it's an advantage for the WA teams are being 'disrespectful' as Damien Hardwick stated today?

 

[sr36]

So no.

Thanks for the answer. Does this not prove that Victorian-based club supporters claiming that it's an advantage for the WA teams are being 'disrespectful' as Damien Hardwick stated today?

I'm happy for my opinion to be considered proof.

I have little doubt that WA teams are disadvantaged by travel due to geography. I also think that an MCG grand final advantages some of the Vic teams - in some years.

The rest of the supposed bias is hocus pocus mumbo jumbo rubbish.

 

[Forward Press]

I'm happy for my opinion to be considered proof.

I have little doubt that WA teams are disadvantaged by travel due to geography. I also think that an MCG grand final advantages some of the Vic teams - in some years.

The rest of the supposed bias is hocus pocus mumbo jumbo rubbish.

So the question then is the level of travel disadvantage. And the suggestion that it's cancelled out by 'true home ground' advantage is also rubbish.

Respectfully.

 

[Lunchtime]

West Coast didn't dominate all of 2016 & 2017 to should have to play the Tigers twice in 2018. Richmond won in 2017 & finished top in 2018 only to have to play the 2018 Premiers once in 2019.

& in 2019 you got your last 7 games straight at the MCG after winning in 2017 & finishing top in 2018, am unfair bloody rort.

Your dynasty was meh at best.

No matter how ya fluff it 2020 no one gives 2 cents about.

Dusty Martin is of course a legend though.

Your response made me laugh re: the fixtures. Gee...amazing.

 

[sr36]

So the question then is the level of travel disadvantage. And the suggestion that it's cancelled out by 'true home ground' advantage is also rubbish.

Respectfully.

I don't think it is cancelled out either. For most teams home ground advantage is net neutral - with a combination of neutral games and similar numbers of advantaged and disadvataged games.

But it's geography - what do you do?

If WA thought it was a big enough disadvantage they would do would GC did - stay a week to play two games and eliminate a flight.

 

[doppleganger]

Would Collingwood fans prefer this kind of fixture? (hi doppleganger)

10 games at home against WC/Freo/Adelaide/Port/GC/Brisbane/GWS/Sydney at the MCG
2 games at home against Essendon and Carlton at the MCG
10 games away against WC etc at their home grounds

Just curious...

Id prefer a completely random fixture.

Scrap the 6-6-6 handicapping.
Scrap the double Derby, dbl Pies v Ess etc
Scrap the ANZAC day is Pies v Dons
Scrap trying to play BLOCKBUSTERS on Friday night

If it remains at 23 games (including gather round) so for Collingwood 11 home games at the G and 11 away games wherever they fall plus the gather round game.

Just pick the six teams clubs will double up against and the remaining away v home piece completely at random.

But I am aware that the commercial impacts will mean that doesnt eventuate, especially as the WA teams wont give up the locked in double derby.

I think the next best option is to expand to 20 teams, and then create smaller geographic based divisions that end up having the exact same fixture. You are then primarily ranked against your division and finals is top from each division and then work out an approach to determine the next best if wanting to go to a finals consisting od 8 / 10 teams.

 

[Forward Press]

I don't think it is cancelled out either. For most teams home ground advantage is net neutral - with a combination of neutral games and similar numbers of advantaged and disadvataged games.

But it's geography - what do you do?

If WA thought it was a big enough disadvantage they would do would GC did - stay a week to play two games and eliminate a flight.

Personally, I would obviously be happy with an extra home game or two against interstate opposition. That goes a long way to addressing the inequality. I'd also be fine with an away double header but venue considerations apply.

Id prefer a completely random fixture.

Scrap the 6-6-6 handicapping.
Scrap the double Derby, dbl Pies v Ess etc
Scrap the ANZAC day is Pies v Dons
Scrap trying to play BLOCKBUSTERS on Friday night

If it remains at 23 games (including gather round) so for Collingwood 11 home games at the G and 11 away games wherever they fall plus the gather round game.

Just pick the six teams clubs will double up against and the remaining away v home piece completely at random.

But I am aware that the commercial impacts will mean that doesnt eventuate, especially as the WA teams wont give up the locked in double derby.

I think the next best option is to expand to 20 teams, and then create smaller geographic based divisions that end up having the exact same fixture. You are then primarily ranked against your division and finals is top from each division and then work out an approach to determine the next best if wanting to go to a finals consisting od 8 / 10 teams.

That's a good answer. Thank you for the sincerity.

 

[sr36]

Personally, I would obviously be happy with an extra home game or two against interstate opposition. That goes a long way to addressing the inequality. I'd also be fine with an away double header but venue considerations apply.

Problem with that is that the few teams chosen to equalise WA travel then become disadvantaged

Gather round should be in WA I think and then if any clubs want to sell their home games to WA rather than Tassie let them.

 

[doppleganger]

As always, my hypothetical never gets answered.

Fine - would you want your side to have that fixture instead of the one they currently have? Just a simple yes or no.

Your hypothetical just doesnt make much sense.

It means we pick just 1 Victorian team to play twice, but then never play any of the other 8.

What should happen is all teams nominate a single home ground. ALL teams then get the same number of home games at their home ground.

ALL teams then play the equivalent number of away games at opposition home grounds.

If the AFL then wants to introduce a gimmick like gather round, do one more and then do a "regional round". That way you could get all teams heading to SA for gather round, but regional round you have the WA teams play in WA...Freo in Freo, and perhaps send WC down south or something..perhaps the SA teams head there to even out the travel.

The Vic teams can travel to regional locations like Newcastle and Albury in NSW, Cairns and Townsville in QLD, Alice Springs and Darwin etc.

So that way the league gets exposure in those markets, but ALL teams are involved and not just a select few give up their home games to make it happen.

And what the WA teams should do to reduce their own travel, is do a week away a couple of times a season. As an example, play Sunday against Pies at the G, stay in Melbourne and then do a Friday night against Dogs at Marvel, then fly back to Perth.

 

[Forward Press]

Your hypothetical just doesnt make much sense.

It means we pick just 1 Victorian team to play twice, but then never play any of the other 8.

What should happen is all teams nominate a single home ground. ALL teams then get the same number of home games at their home ground.

ALL teams then play the equivalent number of away games at opposition home grounds.

If the AFL then wants to introduce a gimmick like gather round, do one more and then do a "regional round". That way you could get all teams heading to SA for gather round, but regional round you have the WA teams play in WA...Freo in Freo, and perhaps send WC down south or something. The Vic teams can travel to regional locations like Albury, Newcastle and Albury in NSW, Cairns and Townsville in QLD etc.

And what the WA teams should do to reduce their own travel, is do a week away a couple of times a season. As an example, play Sunday against Pies at the G, stay in Melbourne and then do a Friday night against Dogs at Marvel, then fly back to Perth.

Of course, because you do have to play each side once. Hence hypothetical. It obviously isn't happening. It's to illustrate that no club prefers the interstate fixture.

I do support the idea of double headers but as I said above there are venue limitations.

 

[doppleganger]

Of course, because you do have to play each side once. Hence hypothetical. It obviously isn't happening. It's to illustrate that no club prefers the interstate fixture.

The problem is that your illustration is a hypothetical.

The WA reality of 2024 for both WA teams

10 games at actual home ground games with home ground advantage
2 neutral games in WA against the other WA team
10 games away from WA, but only 8 actually at your opponents actual home ground.

It would be great to get the Eagles home at the G, and then play them "away" in Darwin or Centennial Stadium in Albany.

I do support the idea of double headers but as I said above there are venue limitations.

What venue limitations exist?

Alternate to ensure always a game in WA each week, ie when WC are doing a dbl away block, Freo have a dbl home block, effectively having potentially 24-25 days in a row in WA.

 

[CarterS]

The point about Wa teams having to travel for gather round is a good one. It is essentially a free extra home game for the SA teams. However giving WA teams an extra home game isn’t the answer because NSW and QLD teams would be equally inconvenienced.

How many teams travel to SA 3 times this season?

Brisbane travel to SA 3 times and WA twice- that is a crazy amount of kms

 

[MrPenguin]

As said, the biggest issue in the H&A fixture is Melbourne based clubs not getting their home games at home where they should enjoy a home ground advantage.

This honestly brought me so much joy to read. I genuinely smiled! I've already messaged my boss that I can't make it in to work tomorrow.

Reason being, first thing in the morning, I'm going to head into OfficeWorks with your quote in hand and spend the day trying to find the perfect font, paper, sizing and frame to print of copy of this masterpiece and modern day wisdom. I'm not sure if you have been into an OfficeWorks but some of the paper (especially the glossy stuff) can get pretty expensive. We are talking up to a $1 a sheet! No expense will be spared here as the quality needs to be high as I think it's something that may form part of my estate and be passed down to my children's children.

When I get kicked out of OfficeWorks at 3:45pm, I'll head home where I plan on finding the exact and perfect angle to place my newly printed picture on my Ikea wardrobe, located in my bedroom. I have a small light which would be perfect to nestle into position at the bottom of the picture, pointed upwards. The plan here is for the light to illuminate your quote in an otherwise dark room, becoming the guiding star for my wife and boyfriend as they go about their business, whilst I sit in the corner.

And it is in that moment, whilst reading your quote, I am at peace.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Vicbias is on show in the media today. Freo go through an injury crisis a few years ago and it's suck s**t your teams ****ed. WC gone/going through it and it's all because you're lazy. Tigers start going through it and OH MY WORD WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!!! That's vicbias.

link?

 

[Carringbush2010]

View attachment 1996919

Which vic clubs said this?

 

[kaiserchief13]

The point about Wa teams having to travel for gather round is a good one. It is essentially a free extra home game for the SA teams. However giving WA teams an extra home game isn’t the answer because NSW and QLD teams would be equally inconvenienced.

How many teams travel to SA 3 times this season?

Brisbane travel to SA 3 times and WA twice- that is a crazy amount of kms

Hence why gather round should be rotated so it evens out over a 4 year period

 

[Dubai Quacker]

Teams the AFL would most like to see succeed this year:

Carlton, Essendon (and Gold Coast)

Teams with this highest positive free kick differential thus far in 2024:

Carlton, Essendon (and Gold Coast).

Its called the Bravedogs 2016 theory.

 

[Freomaniac]

Have been over that back in the thread.

The council wanted us out, they didnt approve upgrade proposals to the stadium.

The AFL also wanted to ensure we play games at their new Docklands venue.

The AFL forced us out in the 1990s.

I am sure the council were scared of those nasty and Angry collingwood fans then. lol

 

[Freomaniac]

You continue to highlight and focus on the wrong part of that post.

Bigger priority is addressing the biased H&A Fixture where teams like WC and Freo get 10 games with a true home ground advantage, but then dont play 10 away games where they face a true away disadvantage.

The important bit is the....but then dont play 10 away games where they face a true away disadvantage.

An easy fix, make sure ALL teams (not just WA and SA teams) play ALL their home games at a single home ground.

Or alternate option, force ALL clubs (including SA and WA) to play some "home games" at alternate venues.

what is this poxy post?

Dockers play 10 home games against non wa clubs.

Then you come up here and Bring up the land rights again. lol

Collingwood play home games at the MCG and Docklands. You complain about Sharing the MCG with Carlton, Essendon and Richmond, yet happy to play them twice each year. Yet bemoan about only Advantages over 8 non Vic clubs.

If you want to have a home ground Advantage, then Collingwood should relocate to Darwin or Canberra or Even Taperoo. lol

Again I am happy to have 3 rd WA side in this league if that means its 13 home state games.

Again.... I am more than Happy for Collingwood to play in Victoria Park and Carlton to play in Princes park and Saints to play home games in Moorabbin oval. Is that what you want?

 

[Freomaniac]

Who gives a stuff?

Work it out? What's to work out? If you have Ninety eleven billion people in WA it doesn't matter didly sh*t if no one is going to support the club.

You really think wc and freo fans are gonna jump ship? You reckon all those wafl fans don't follow freo or wc now? Yeah nah, you're dreamin.

If It was Perth or East Perth comes in.... That makes it interesting.

From 1987-1994, most people followed the eagles and some followed the VFL clubs that had Decent WA players.

Dockers came into the comp in 1995, where did the Dockers draw fans from? Some eagles fans jumped ship and became dockers fans. But Not all Dockers fans in 1995 are ex eagles fans.

I have no links to West coast. I am born and Still Live in this Alien state you Call South Australia. Look it up on the map. Its Near Victoria Apparently.


Now which WAFL fans jumped ship to Follow the dockers? Some East Freo fans did. Lots of South freo fans did. I am not Suprised as the dockers did train at South freos home ground in the 1990s.

Claremont fans got on Board too. Gerrard Neesham was the dockers coach in 1995. His previous Coaching Job from 1987-1994 was coaching Claremont to the 1987, 1989, 1991 and 1993 flags. Ben Allan was From Claremont, played 94 games for the hawks from 1990-94, became the dockers captain in 1995.

Its no different to The crows. Graham Cornes was Crows coach in 1991. His previous job was coaching Glenelg in the SANFL from 1985-1990. We won flags in 1985-86, lost the 1987-8 and 1990 grand finals. Crows 1st captain was Chris McDermott, Crows 2nd Captain was Tony McGuiness. Guess where both those blokes played in the SANFL? Yep Both under Graham Cornes in Glenelg.

Port Adelaide Similar thing. Port Powers 1st coach was Jack Cahill in 1997-8. His Previous coaching stint was Port Magpies in the SANFL from 1988-1996. Wont SANFL flags in 1988-90, 1992, then 1994-6. Port Powers 1st captain Was Gavin Wanganeen. Remember him? You Remember him playing 127 games for essendon from 1991-96, Before playing for Port from 1997-2006. I remember Gavin playing SANFL for the Port Magpies in 1990.


My Point is, If there was going to be a 3rd WA club, It is likely to Be linked with a WAFL side like Perth or east Perth Or West Perth. I dont think many Dockers fans will jump ship. A few eagles fans will if they are fans of Perth, East Perth or West Perth. It would take a while to grow the fan base. Maybe a good 10-12 years.

Western Australias population is growing unlike Tassie or the Northern Territory.

 

[Freomaniac]

So no.

Thanks for the answer. Does this not prove that Victorian-based club supporters claiming that it's an advantage for the WA teams are being 'disrespectful' as Damien Hardwick stated today?

Damien Hardwick is only saying that because he is actually coaching a Non Vic Side.

I think Hardwick just found out how hard it is for a non vic side to be good. I acutally hope Gold coast makes finals this season. It might even come at my dockers expense.

Hardwick won the 2017 and 2019 flags vs 2 non vic sides. Richmond won the 2017 vs the crows because the media forced Dustin Martins fat Fathers face down our throat and the poxy crows stance down our throats too.

Richmond won the 2019 flag off the back of 10 MCG games in a row before the finals and beating an injury riddled GWS team in a grand final that had nothing left after 3 hard fought cut throat finals.

 

[Freomaniac]

Travel and home ground advantage are different concepts.

WA teams have a disadvantage in terms of travel. They don't in terms of home ground.

A third team in WA could definitely be supported by population and footy support, but the issue is how do they get a big enough supporter base. You'd have to dissolve WCE and try to split their supporter base

No you bloody dont.

North Melbourne or North Victoria. Theres North Melbourne, Carlton, Essendon and Collingwood. Fitzroy was in the Northern Suburbs of Victoria too.