Toast Welcome to Hawthorn, Finn Maginness “absolute Hawthorn nuffie” and a Hawk to 2025

[CHUBBSS]

More drafting IMO - Lovell (174cm) 1st round pick taken a couple of picks before Dunkley was an absolute howler - no-one had Lovell as a first rounder or even second. Hartung 24 over Merrett 26 was another shocker. Hartung slid after after a few recruiters questioned his "hardness" at the ball

JOR is still ahead scratcher as well - probably the most under whelming highlights package for someone initially taken at pick 2 - we gave up pick 18 for him when he showed absolutely nothing in his first two years at GWS

The last decent midfielder we drafted was Jordan Lewis at pick 7, its all been very poor drafting since then...

When you put it like that it doesn’t make for great reading...

 

[Hawk_francais]

Although CJ's shown that sometimes manure promotes growth, it's not always the case.

???

 

[Siri]

???

He's performing very well and flourishing in an otherwise crap team. Taken his opportunity. Get it?

 

[Hawk_francais]

He's performing very well and flourishing in an otherwise crap team. Taken his opportunity. Get it?

Sort of.

 

[Jazzfan]

If he wasn't a father son, I don't know if he'd even be discussed. Can't see the fascination with him as he's shown nothing at either level. Built like Tarzan, but seems to have an inability to impose himself on a contest, let alone a game. There should be no expectation surrounding him & like any other pick 29, if he does work out it'll be a bonus. Fingers crossed. Seems miles off the descriptions in this thread when he was first drafted. Although CJ's shown that sometimes manure promotes growth, it's not always the case.

For me it's not about his father. It's the fact he was our second pick (29) in 2019.

In 2020 our second pick was also 29, Mitchell. Third was Downie in the early 30s.

I feel the fascination with Finn and Downie this year, Mitchell being injured, is that we desperately need them to make it given we have so little coming through.

 

[chopflop]

For me it's not about his father. It's the fact he was our second pick (29) in 2019.

In 2020 our second pick was also 29, Mitchell. Third was Downie in the early 30s.

I feel the fascination with Finn and Downie this year, Mitchell being injured, is that we desperately need them to make it given we have so little coming through.

Late second rounders are pretty speculative unfortunately when looking at this history. Sure you can strike gold but most turn out to be role players or never make its

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

The kids 20. Just an FYI.

 

[kirbatron]

just a gut feel but id like to see the shackles off & finn to play his natural game & tell him to play with some flair...

that goes for everyone. the place feels flat & dull. how can it be enjoyable?

 

[Hawk_francais]

For me it's not about his father. It's the fact he was our second pick (29) in 2019.

In 2020 our second pick was also 29, Mitchell. Third was Downie in the early 30s.

I feel the fascination with Finn and Downie this year, Mitchell being injured, is that we desperately need them to make it given we have so little coming through.

The ‘obsession’ with Finn is nothing more than a need to make sense of the ‘plan’ for our midfield. We have had the worst performed midfield in the competition for 3 years running. Finn is the only inside midfielder we’ve added to our group since 2019 (unless you count Saunders as a rookie this year). You could be forgiven for assuming he was earmarked to be a pretty key part of the midfield solution.

The only alternatives are:
a) The coaches don’t think clearances, contested ball or inside 50s are that important.
b) They banked on the group they had improving with time.

Whichever way you grasp it, we're starting to look like we got it really wrong.

 

[Suntory Boss Coffee]

I think Finn is being judged extremely harshly on his ability to win the ball and him appearing to coast around the contest. If any of you were to read the reports or maybe even watch the game you would know that he is being asked to play defensive. To work on his defensive side of his game. If they thought he needed to work on his offensive game (ie, they thought it was weaker), I would think they would be doing that.

He is going alright considering his first year was a write off with no developmental footy being played. This is his first proper season. Where in most weeks, our heir apparent VFL coach has been pleased with his work. Even earning an AFL call up.

Recent years with 18 year olds coming in (Walsh, Smith, Rozee etc.) and playing really high standard footy has warped the view of most draftees.

20 years old with top 3 endurance at the club. 187cm. Impressive rig, shows that he is willing to work.
In his u18 year stoppage work was his bread and butter. Loves to tackle.

Slow burn

 

[Howe Amazing]

just a gut feel but id like to see the shackles off & finn to play his natural game & tell him to play with some flair...

that goes for everyone. the place feels flat & dull. how can it be enjoyable?

Exactly he tagged Phillips for 4 quarters and not being allowed to hunt the ball. He seems to get ignored a bit as well I have observed. I hope he plays against the Blues on the G and plays on Walsh, we don’t have anyone else who could go with him.

 

[MasterSamurai]

Let him free wheel through the midfield/half frwd for a coupla games imo.
We need attacking mids who are creative and dangerous, have enough dour flat footed midfielders as it is. Free ' FİNN'!

 

[TylerDurden]

Exactly he tagged Phillips for 4 quarters and not being allowed to hunt the ball. He seems to get ignored a bit as well I have observed. I hope he plays against the Blues on the G and plays on Walsh, we don’t have anyone else who could go with him.

Not a bad idea. We absolutely need someone to run with him.

 

[Howe Amazing]

Not a bad idea. We absolutely need someone to run with him.

Don’t think there is anyone else

 

[The Chad and I]

Let him free wheel through the midfield/half frwd for a coupla games imo.
We need attacking mids who are creative and dangerous, have enough dour flat footed midfielders as it is. Free ' FİNN'!

I agree. It's not clear to me why we are turning a ball winning, inside mid who hits the scoreboard and can run all day...into a tagger.
I don't think it has ever been explained.

 

[LMGjr]

More drafting IMO - Lovell (174cm) 1st round pick taken a couple of picks before Dunkley was an absolute howler - no-one had Lovell as a first rounder or even second. Hartung 24 over Merrett 26 was another shocker. Hartung slid after after a few recruiters questioned his "hardness" at the ball

JOR is still ahead scratcher as well - probably the most under whelming highlights package for someone initially taken at pick 2 - we gave up pick 18 for him when he showed absolutely nothing in his first two years at GWS

The last decent midfielder we drafted was Jordan Lewis at pick 7, its all been very poor drafting since then...

Nail on the head - Coaches can only coach what's given to them - as you have pointed out they've been given very small, slow mids lacking skills. Those 3 (Lovell, Hurtang, and what we gave up for JOR, plus Howe etc) should now be the absolute core our midfield - that type of recruiting just kills you.

Wrights gone, and everybody should be really happy about this, if they really look at - in his last 2 years as he was being pushed out the door we decided we needed pace and height - when McKenzie was in transition. I expect this to continue rather the ego we had thinking he could outsmart everyone else.

 

[KermitJagger]

Nail on the head - Coaches can only coach what's given to them - as you have pointed out they've been given very small, slow mids lacking skills. Those 3 (Lovell, Hurtang, and what we gave up for JOR, plus Howe etc) should now be the absolute core our midfield - that type of recruiting just kills you.

Wrights gone, and everybody should be really happy about this, if they really look at - in his last 2 years as he was being pushed out the door we decided we needed pace and height - when McKenzie was in transition. I expect this to continue rather the ego we had thinking he could outsmart everyone else.

RE Lovell, no one from pick 22 (where he was taken) has ever made an All Australian team. You can bemoan the fact that we took him a few picks ahead of Dunkley, but the fact of the matter is we weren't the only club not to pick Dunkley and Sydney even had the rights to him as a father son and passed.

The pick 18 in 2014 that we gave up for JOR ended up being Blaine Boekhorst, and there aren't many stars after that pick either.

It's easy to look at these things happening in the past and whinge about them, but there's sweet f all star players to go around each year and the reality is unless you're getting a pick in the top 5 you're likely to miss out. Even with a pick in the top 5 it's nowhere near a guarantee.

 

[LMGjr]

RE Lovell, no one from pick 22 (where he was taken) has ever made an All Australian team. You can bemoan the fact that we took him a few picks ahead of Dunkley, but the fact of the matter is we weren't the only club not to pick Dunkley and Sydney even had the rights to him as a father son and passed.

The pick 18 in 2014 that we gave up for JOR ended up being Blaine Boekhorst, and there aren't many stars after that pick either.

It's easy to look at these things happening in the past and whinge about them, but there's sweet f all star players to go around each year and the reality is unless you're getting a pick in the top 5 you're likely to miss out. Even with a pick in the top 5 it's nowhere near a guarantee.

Whose whinging mate?

Ain't me.

Facts are you don't keep picking small, slow, unskilled, same same kids and expect to get anywhere.

But what I do find is you're type of "it wouldn't have mattered because the next pick was useless anyway" a pathetic argument defending horrible recruiting by Wright (probably while blaming Clarko elsewhere).

You don't, for 5yrs in a row, keep grabbing the same type of slow small unskilled mids and expect to get anywhere - but you know if you're a Wright fan then good luck to ya.

Back to Finn.

 

[KermitJagger]

Whose whinging mate?

Ain't me.

Facts are you don't keep picking small, slow, unskilled, same same kids and expect to get anywhere.

But what I do find is you're type of "it wouldn't have mattered because the next pick was useless anyway" a pathetic argument defending horrible recruiting by Wright (probably while blaming Clarko elsewhere).

You don't, for 5yrs in a row, keep grabbing the same type of slow small unskilled mids and expect to get anywhere - but you know if you're a Wright fan then good luck to ya.

Back to Finn.

You're all whinging, honestly.

The next pick, and the pick after, and every pick after that in the draft being no better than who we took does in fact matter. You said they should be the core of our midfield now, there's no way you could have got the core of a decent midfield out of the picks listed.

Complaining about who we got when there was a fraction of a chance getting a player that would make a measurable difference is absolutely pointless whinging.

 

[LMGjr]

You're all whinging, honestly.

The next pick, and the pick after, and every pick after that in the draft being no better than who we took does in fact matter. You said they should be the core of our midfield now, there's no way you could have got the core of a decent midfield out of the picks listed.

Complaining about who we got when there was a fraction of a chance getting a player that would make a measurable difference is absolutely pointless whinging.

I agree there is too much whinging - I haven't been - i actually see light now when I didn't two years ago and have been saying as much, you just happened to latch onto my post because it was the newest - no harm done.

The bolded part I can agree with - but I do think everyone knows this, so you actually as a list manager have to say "well, we lack pace, so that's the 1st thing, we lack skills, that's that's the second thing and we lack height" - this is what we've started to address the past two years. Instead of picking up more slow small same same vanilla....so even if the last two draft years fail we as supporters can see we tried addressing issues that are obvious - nothing more can be done then that because we do not have enough talent in the country for 18 teams - that's a fact, as you say.

People were going on and on and on about trading Bruest or such and such to improve our position (now people want to trade Sicily ffs)- it doesn't matter what hand you hold if your recruiting manager favors a certain type of player and is absolutely determined to prove he's wright (pun intended) - the Pelican was the same expect it was HBFs he was obsessed with - the whole point being our recruiting went stale and was NOT balanced between pace, inside grunt and height. I think most can handle draft busts if the bust is for clear reason - IE- pace or height when you already have slowness and inside - it's called balance. If the talent is all the same then you go for balancing the list, not overweight in one area consistently.

Anyway - wrong thread, this is Finn's thread and we all hope he makes it.

 

[I got the outside word]

I agree. It's not clear to me why we are turning a ball winning, inside mid who hits the scoreboard and can run all day...into a tagger.
I don't think it has ever been explained.

Maybe it’s a lesson in learning the defensive side of the midfield role as our current mids hate doing it.

 

[Noel Gallagher]

I agree there is too much whinging - I haven't been - i actually see light now when I didn't two years ago and have been saying as much, you just happened to latch onto my post because it was the newest - no harm done.

The bolded part I can agree with - but I do think everyone knows this, so you actually as a list manager have to say "well, we lack pace, so that's the 1st thing, we lack skills, that's that's the second thing and we lack height" - this is what we've started to address the past two years. Instead of picking up more slow small same same vanilla....so even if the last two draft years fail we as supporters can see we tried addressing issues that are obvious - nothing more can be done then that because we do not have enough talent in the country for 18 teams - that's a fact, as you say.

People were going on and on and on about trading Bruest or such and such to improve our position (now people want to trade Sicily ffs)- it doesn't matter what hand you hold if your recruiting manager favors a certain type of player and is absolutely determined to prove he's wright (pun intended) - the Pelican was the same expect it was HBFs he was obsessed with - the whole point being our recruiting went stale and was NOT balanced between pace, inside grunt and height. I think most can handle draft busts if the bust is for clear reason - IE- pace or height when you already have slowness and inside - it's called balance. If the talent is all the same then you go for balancing the list, not overweight in one area consistently.

Anyway - wrong thread, this is Finn's thread and we all hope he makes it.

I hardly call it whinging. Our midfield is absolutely shite and all roads point to to several key drafting decisions that have come back to bite us hard(along with the lack of 1st round picks in the last ten years) As it stands right now, I am happy with our backline, feeling more confident about out forward line each week but our midfield is probably the worst in the competition.

When you look at the top clubs they basically have a very deep midfield and good mix of inside/outside players. Bulldogs midfield IMO is the best in the business. They have lost Dunkley but are able to cover him comfortably. Demons have the best ruckman and also a deep midfield which also has a good mix. Cats have lost Dangerfield but still get by without him. Richmond have Cotchin, Prestia and Bolton out yet still manage to win games and be competitive

We loose JOM for a game and our midfield becomes paper thin and uncompetitive The lack of draft picks has hurt us badly in bringing in genuine midfield talent but that is basically were we are at. We aint gonna challenge for a flag until we rebuild the midfield . For all the players that Carlton have brought it they are still struggling to go to the next level because of their midfield. I think we should just play Howe in the middle and phase out Shiels. Has been a warrior but is having little impact at the centre bounces

Re Maginess, as much as I would like to see him get more games, he is simply not doing enough at Box Hill to warrant getting a game at the highest level. Hopefully he is a slow burner and just needs more time, we really need him to come on at some stage

 

[H00t]

RE Lovell, no one from pick 22 (where he was taken) has ever made an All Australian team. You can bemoan the fact that we took him a few picks ahead of Dunkley, but the fact of the matter is we weren't the only club not to pick Dunkley and Sydney even had the rights to him as a father son and passed.

Sydney wanted Dunkley. But Dunkley didn’t want to leave Melbourne. Hence why they didn’t match as it was a Melbourne team bidding. If he was heading to any other state they would have matched.

Dogs really lucked out with that

 

[cryptor]

The kids 20. Just an FYI.

Yep and I think guys like Worpel and Rowell who step up into AFL midfield time quickly and seemingly so easily set unrealistic expectations for some other players who look physically ready but just haven't got the rest of it together yet.

I think people have this sense that he's been in our system for years. Which is only partially true. We've become familiar with his name not just through his father but the fact we knew he was coming up through the junior ranks for years. Then he finally landed with us and he looked ready so the expectation was that he'd play early. But then COVID happened and it practically wiped out any valuable development in his first year.

This year he's effectively a first year recruit. He may not break out for another season or two.

 

[LMGjr]

I hardly call it whinging. Our midfield is absolutely sh*te and all roads point to to several key drafting decisions that have come back to bite us hard(along with the lack of 1st round picks in the last ten years) As it stands right now, I am happy with our backline, feeling more confident about out forward line each week but our midfield is probably the worst in the competition.

When you look at the top clubs they basically have a very deep midfield and good mix of inside/outside players. Bulldogs midfield IMO is the best in the business. They have lost Dunkley but are able to cover him comfortably. Demons have the best ruckman and also a deep midfield which also has a good mix. Cats have lost Dangerfield but still get by without him. Richmond have Cotchin, Prestia and Bolton out yet still manage to win games and be competitive

We loose JOM for a game and our midfield becomes paper thin and uncompetitive The lack of draft picks has hurt us badly in bringing in genuine midfield talent but that is basically were we are at. We aint gonna challenge for a flag until we rebuild the midfield . For all the players that Carlton have brought it they are still struggling to go to the next level because of their midfield. I think we should just play Howe in the middle and phase out Shiels. Has been a warrior but is having little impact at the centre bounces

Re Maginess, as much as I would like to see him get more games, he is simply not doing enough at Box Hill to warrant getting a game at the highest level. Hopefully he is a slow burner and just needs more time, we really need him to come on at some stage

I ain't calling what you wrote whinging mate, not at all - it was putrid drafting and is what is killing us right now.

The good news is the midfield is the easiest to fix, even if it doesn't feel that way right at the moment. As long as we have put a priority on skill and pace rather then more Lovells and JOR and Howes and just keep listing them..............