List Mgmt. What to do with McCartin?

[my name was taken]

Keep.

All our forwards are s**t so maybe the rot starts somewhere else.

 

[my name was taken]

By way of illustration, I have just picked out some young fwds at random and how many goals they have kicked so far this season for comparison and so people can have some perspective.

Hogan - 17
Castagna - 13
Stewart - 13
Hayward - 11
Gowers - 10
Curnow - 10
Stephenson - 10
[McCartin 6]

n.b. De Goey already has 8 and was banned for the first 4 games.

Perspective would be understanding how s**t the rest of our team is in comparison to those players respective clubs.

I have zero doubts that he would have more than 6 at Melbourne or Richmond like hogan and Castagna.

 

[STK2020]

By way of illustration, I have just picked out some young fwds at random and how many goals they have kicked so far this season for comparison and so people can have some perspective.

Hogan - 17
Castagna - 13
Stewart - 13
Hayward - 11
Gowers - 10
Curnow - 10
Stephenson - 10
[McCartin 6]

n.b. De Goey already has 8 and was banned for the first 4 games.

So whats the solution ?
F#@k off a 22 yo forward and salvage past mistakes from a Muppet recruit manager by excepting a s**t pick between 20-35 range and hope that 18 yo forward shows potential in our already broken forward line feed by midfielders with s**t skills .
Good luck .

 

[joop]

Still untrue though.

You sit out to get them to acceptable levels, he was retired because of other reasons not related to his sugar levels.

It's always the same sort of discussion when Paddy goes off the ground "oh he's stuffed because he's diabetic" "oh he's stuffed because his noggins not hard" and they literally watched as a bloke drove a knee into his back with force as he crashed to Earth.

Lazy journalism.

What? How is it lazy journalism? He was off due to his high sugar levels, came on and then got the head knock which sat him out until after half time. The coach confirmed it so not really sure what you're debating?

 

[joop]

By way of illustration, I have just picked out some young fwds at random and how many goals they have kicked so far this season for comparison and so people can have some perspective.

Hogan - 17
Castagna - 13
Stewart - 13
Hayward - 11
Gowers - 10
Curnow - 10
Stephenson - 10
[McCartin 6]

n.b. De Goey already has 8 and was banned for the first 4 games.

mate, we have the lowest number of goals of any side this year.

 

[George]

Just to add to this, Richo said in his press conference that when Paddy came off his bloody sugar levels were high so he had to sit out longer and wait for it to get better.

No he didn't finish the game early because of his blood sugar levels.

 

[sonnywalters]

Perspective would be understanding how s**t the rest of our team is in comparison to those players respective clubs.

I have zero doubts that he would have more than 6 at Melbourne or Richmond like hogan and Castagna.

Melbourne are actually s**t.
How did Gowers manage 10 at the Dogs? Curnow 10 at the Blues.

If you want to go down that path about Richmond we can.

Jack Riewoldt - 17
Martin - 13
Caddy - 12
Townsend - 10

So Richmond have a large number of blokes with more than 10. And yes that is because they are good.
But Paddy wouldnt get a game at Richmond because he cant tackle so if he played there he would actually be on 0.

That is perspective.

 

[sonnywalters]

mate, we have the lowest number of goals of any side this year.

How did Curnow get 10?

 

[Enclosed_Animal]

By way of illustration, I have just picked out some young fwds at random and how many goals they have kicked so far this season for comparison and so people can have some perspective.

Hogan - 17
Castagna - 13
Stewart - 13
Hayward - 11
Gowers - 10
Curnow - 10
Stephenson - 10
[McCartin 6]

n.b. De Goey already has 8 and was banned for the first 4 games.

How about we actually look at comparable players (a top 10 draft pick who can play KPF) so that we can get some real perspective.

Hogan (minidarft 2012) - 17
Daniher (pick 10 2012) - 8
Boyd (pick 1 2013) - 3
Paddy (pick 1 2014) - 6
Wright (pick 8 2014) - 0
Moore (pick 9 2014) - 3
Schache (pick 2 2015) - 0
Weideman (pick 9 2015) - 2
McKay (pick 10 2015) - 7

But the sky is falling right? Who knew they guy with 3 more years development and double the amount of games (playing in a better side) would kick more goals!!

Or are Jason Costagna, and Will Hayward better comparisons?

 

[plugger66]

How about we actually look at comparable players (a top 10 draft pick who can play KPF) so that we can get some real perspective.

Hogan (minidarft 2012) - 17
Daniher (pick 10 2012) - 8
Boyd (pick 1 2013) - 3
Paddy (pick 1 2014) - 6
Wright (pick 8 2014) - 0
Moore (pick 9 2014) - 3
Schache (pick 2 2014) - 0
Weideman (pick 9 2015) - 2
McKay (pick 10 2015) - 7

But the sky is falling right?

So every player you named has played every game? Also every player was pick one? And no player has missed through injury? Come on. That’s madness. Or more to point why do clubs continue using high picks on friggin tall forwards.


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[sonnywalters]

How about we actually look at comparable players (a top 10 draft pick who can play KPF) so that we can get some actual perspective for 2018.

Hogan (minidarft 2012) - 17
Daniher (pick 10 2012) - 8
Boyd (pick 1 2013) - 3
Paddy (pick 1 2014) - 6
Wright (pick 8 2014) - 0
Moore (pick 9 2014) - 3
Schache (pick 2 2014) - 0
Weideman (pick 9 2015) - 2
McKay (pick 10 2015) - 7

But the sky is falling right?

Dude!
Peter Wright has kicked 59 goals from 42 games in a terrible team!!!! He is light years ahead of Paddy. FFS.
Moore has been injured and/or playing down back.
Joe Daniher has 180 goals from 100 games! FFS. 180 goals!


The others are all young.

So your examples are absolutely horrendous!

 

[HarryZLA]

We officially have the worst supporters in the league, how depressing. He's been improving every week this year, what more can you really ask for? He was beaten by a solid Melbourne team defence and copped a number of knocks today, one of which looked like it would end his afternoon. Same case as Billings in the sense that I feel like people here wait for him to have a s**t game so they can pot him or question his selection with the high pick.

Worst supporters in the league? We only pay for memberships etc to watch our team be hopeless for 45~ of the last 50 years.

 

[BangersAndMash]

Trade for De Goey

Haha... tell him he’s dreamin’


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[F_therest]

Just to add to this, Richo said in his press conference that when Paddy came off his bloody sugar levels were high so he had to sit out longer and wait for it to get better.

Ah OK. So yeah i go back to my original post...that it's nobodies fault and unfortunate that McCartin has diabetes, but from a football perspective it's an issue to have a guy that may have to sit on the bench for prolonged periods to check his blood sugar levels, messing with structures and planned rotations. Other players then have to pick up the slack while he's off.

I think it's also been stated that it may (or may not) have something to do with him being on the 'bigger' side and not exactly looking lean and fit.

It was a known issue before being drafted, so i wonder how much it was taken into account when deciding whether to draft him.

 

[D2D3]

By way of illustration, I have just picked out some young fwds at random and how many goals they have kicked so far this season for comparison and so people can have some perspective.

Hogan - 17
Castagna - 13
Stewart - 13
Hayward - 11
Gowers - 10
Curnow - 10
Stephenson - 10
[McCartin 6]

n.b. De Goey already has 8 and was banned for the first 4 games.

Notice you conventiently left out Boyd, Schake, Weideman and Wright. You know, other KEY forwards at around McCartins age and games. Curnow is the only relevant comparison on that list.

 

[F_therest]

How about we actually look at comparable players (a top 10 draft pick who can play KPF) so that we can get some real perspective.

Hogan (minidarft 2012) - 17
Daniher (pick 10 2012) - 8
Boyd (pick 1 2013) - 3
Paddy (pick 1 2014) - 6
Wright (pick 8 2014) - 0
Moore (pick 9 2014) - 3
Schache (pick 2 2015) - 0
Weideman (pick 9 2015) - 2
McKay (pick 10 2015) - 7

But the sky is falling right? Who knew they guy with 3 more years development and double the amount of games (playing in a better side) would kick more goals!!

Or are Jason Costagna, and Will Hayward better comparisons?

So every player you named has played every game? Also every player was pick one? And no player has missed through injury? Come on. That’s madness. Or more to point why do clubs continue using high picks on friggin tall forwards.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Dude!
Peter Wright has kicked 59 goals from 42 games in a terrible team!!!! He is light years ahead of Paddy. FFS.
Moore has been injured and/or playing down back.
Joe Daniher has 180 goals from 100 games! FFS. 180 goals!


The others are all young.

So your examples are absolutely horrendous!

To add to this in detail for each example:

Hogan (minidarft 2012) - 17 / Had shown far more at Paddys age, winning the RS and kicking something like 45 goals in his second or third year back when Melbourne were still s**t.
Daniher (pick 10 2012) - 8 / Showed good signs in 2016 then had a breakout year in 2017. Also rucks a bit which means less time up forward to kick goals.
Boyd (pick 1 2013) - 3 / Has been a let down except GF performance...but helped net the dogs a premiership.
Paddy (pick 1 2014) - 6 / Hasn't really shown much at all really.
Wright (pick 8 2014) - 0 / Showed plenty a year or two ago...is currently injured which is why he has 0 goals this year.
Moore (pick 9 2014) - 3 / Been a letdown, spending a lot of time in defence now.
Schache (pick 2 2015) - 0 / Bust so far.
Weideman (pick 9 2015) - 2 / Hasn't really done anything yet, starting to build this year though.
McKay (pick 10 2015) - 7 / Also hasn't done much though has battled injury...getting a run in seniors now and is showing promising signs with 7 goals in 3 games...has some nice attributes like height, agility and an accurate set shot.

So yeah obviously there has been a few other busts like Schache and i'd say Boyd and Patton are really struggling, but also a lot of others who are showing far more than Paddy so St Kilda supporters are entitled to be a bit frustrated with his output so far.

Going beyond his current output, there are worrying signs that even given more time he may not become the star you'd hope, like certain attributes around his fitness, poor accuracy for goal and dropping some easy marks.

 

[Enclosed_Animal]

To add to this in detail for each example:

Hogan (minidarft 2012) - 17 / Had shown far more at Paddys age, winning the RS and kicking something like 45 goals in his second or third year back when Melbourne were still s**t.
Daniher (pick 10 2012) - 8 / Showed good signs in 2016 then had a breakout year in 2017. Also rucks a bit which means less time up forward to kick goals.
Boyd (pick 1 2013) - 3 / Has been a let down except GF performance...but helped net the dogs a premiership.
Paddy (pick 1 2014) - 6 / Hasn't really shown much at all really.
Wright (pick 8 2014) - 0 / Showed plenty a year or two ago...is currently injured which is why he has 0 goals this year.
Moore (pick 9 2014) - 3 / Been a letdown, spending a lot of time in defence now.
Schache (pick 2 2015) - 0 / Bust so far.
Weideman (pick 9 2015) - 2 / Hasn't really done anything yet, starting to build this year though.
McKay (pick 10 2015) - 7 / Also hasn't done much though has battled injury...getting a run in seniors now and is showing promising signs with 7 goals in 3 games...has some nice attributes like height, agility and an accurate set shot.

So yeah obviously there has been a few other busts like Schache and i'd say Boyd and Patton are really struggling, but also a lot of others who are showing far more than Paddy so St Kilda supporters are entitled to be a bit frustrated with his output so far.

Going beyond his current output, there are worrying signs that even given more time he may not become the star you'd hope, like certain attributes around his fitness, poor accuracy for goal and dropping some easy marks.

Regardless of what happens with McCartin...

When Carlton supporters are giving us advice / input about the development of young players, we know we are well and truly up sh** creek without a paddle.

 

[D2D3]

To add to this in detail for each example:

Hogan (minidarft 2012) - 17 / Had shown far more at Paddys age, winning the RS and kicking something like 45 goals in his second or third year back when Melbourne were still s**t.
Daniher (pick 10 2012) - 8 / Showed good signs in 2016 then had a breakout year in 2017. Also rucks a bit which means less time up forward to kick goals.
Boyd (pick 1 2013) - 3 / Has been a let down except GF performance...but helped net the dogs a premiership.
Paddy (pick 1 2014) - 6 / Hasn't really shown much at all really.
Wright (pick 8 2014) - 0 / Showed plenty a year or two ago...is currently injured which is why he has 0 goals this year.
Moore (pick 9 2014) - 3 / Been a letdown, spending a lot of time in defence now.
Schache (pick 2 2015) - 0 / Bust so far.
Weideman (pick 9 2015) - 2 / Hasn't really done anything yet, starting to build this year though.
McKay (pick 10 2015) - 7 / Also hasn't done much though has battled injury...getting a run in seniors now and is showing promising signs with 7 goals in 3 games...has some nice attributes like height, agility and an accurate set shot.

So yeah obviously there has been a few other busts like Schache and i'd say Boyd and Patton are really struggling, but also a lot of others who are showing far more than Paddy so St Kilda supporters are entitled to be a bit frustrated with his output so far.

Going beyond his current output, there are worrying signs that even given more time he may not become the star you'd hope, like certain attributes around his fitness, poor accuracy for goal and dropping some easy marks.

Thing is Paddy was building this year. His two previous outings had been good ones and he nearly won us the game against gws. He was poor today but it was hardly his fault. If he went pick 2 or had more visually graphic injuries than concussion people would be happy to give him more time.

I'll be concerned if he hasn't made a dent after he's had a run and is around the 40-50 game mark. As it stand 28 goals from 29 games isn't so out of the ordinary for a young key forward as is being made out.

We have significantly worse problems than McCartin and its frustrating he's being used as a scape goat in much the same way as Melbourne fans treated Jack Watts.

 

[cooperg]

TRADE HIM HE IS USELESS.

Saw in the pre show that they said McCartin has one 3 out of 26 one on one contests that's pathetic...He can't run..He can't kick.

Trade for De Goey,,but too be fair to the Pies they'd be getting robbed.

Give him away for a late 1st early 2nd and take it.

 

[sonnywalters]

Notice you conventiently left out Boyd, Schake, Weideman and Wright. You know, other KEY forwards at around McCartins age and games. Curnow is the only relevant comparison on that list.

Peter Wright is 6 months younger and has twice as many career goals as Paddy.
So if you want to bring him up - go right ahead. Schache and Weideman are much younger both struggling. Boyd is a known bust. Patton too.

But guess what this tells us - TALL FWDS ARE RISKY. Using a pick 1 on a tall fwd is fraught with danger. They will probably be a bust.
Also the game has changed a lot. I cant see how Paddy can fit in to modern footy - even if he stays on the park. The stay home pack mark player is obsolete.

And what of Harry McKay? Already has 7 goals from only 3 games and he is tall enough to ruck.
Want to bring him in to it as well? He is only 20.

 

[borderbarry]

We have too much invested in him. We need to continue to play him. It is not like we have any key forwards knocking down the walls to get a game.. When is Josh due back?

 

[Blackas87]

Thought Paddy started the game pretty well today, thought he attacked the ball and made a contest. Enough signs to suggest he'll be a decent player going forward. Regardless of whether he should of been the top selection or not, no way would I be trading him.

 

[JG22]

There is no sense at all in trading him.

Or any talented high drafted player when they aren't worth a lot.

No list manager in the comp would have any interest in trading him because the value isn't there, nor do you trade kids a few years in before they have blossomed.

 

[Tempy Tiger]

I wouldn’t be trading him. I’m not sure that you’d get much back at the moment anyway. You’d be looking at a late second round pick at best from what I’ve seen to date.
His biggest problem seems to be lack of fitness/conditioning. When you aren’t fit you are ****ed. You get in awkward positions trying to make contests, so you get hurt more often. Your skills fall down because you’re so fatigued. I’d be giving him a personal trainer seven days a week and a dietician. If he’s not on the paleo diet he should be. He really doesn’t need to be doing any ball work during the week. It should all be about conditioning. If he can get that right everything else will follow. In my humble opinion anyway.

 

[Stjonesy]

Needs to be part of the stkilda extraordinary revolution 'player, coaches and adminstration' trade/sacking / replacement extravaganza at season's end. The likes of it has never been seen before in professional sport. Basically 80% of the playing list is traded for best offer, all coaches replaced 10 minutes after the last game, and all admin sent packing, all...

The club is currently nothing, meek and pathetic. The Stkilda.f.c needs to be run by an admin that inspires the supporters and club with its passion. No more p.c BS, an animal cage section will be reserved for the old fashioned supporter who has been alienated by the new world we live in.

Nice guys won't be seen as a prerequisite no longer, good old fashioned swinging axeman country Aussie campaigners will be targeted. We need to be rebranded as the most brutal Aussie bloke club in the land.

Want a new and relevant image, implement this , or start looking forward to us with a different name south of vic. There are so many people disillusioned with the current game, vanilla image, it's time to buck the trend. Stop trying to copy other clubs, we've moved away from what we were , colourful, charismatic, entertaining. We are a s... show right now, zero relevance. We will be admired for going rogue, becoming old fashioned good Aussie again whilst the rest keep becoming a watered down by product of the yawn fest p.c world the AFL have implemented.

'Becoming animal again ' - 2019 membership drive