Opinion Where's Nahas at?

[Mr Magic]

Milne is the exception as he is one of the all time great small forwards. This year Betts had a good year but career wise-

Nahas- Betts​

Career - Career​

77 Games 166​

8.2 Kicks Per Game 7.0​

6.9 Handballs Per Game 4.8​

15.1 Disposals Per Game 11.7​

3.4 Marks Per Game 2.9​

1.3 Goals Per Game 1.6​

0.8 Behinds Per Game 0.9​

4.1 Tackles Per Game 3.1​

1.1 Frees For Per Game 0.8​

0.8 Frees Against Per Game 0.5​

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The little big man needs more recognition. I'm sure Dimma appreciates his worth.​

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Stats can be misleading. You have to adjust for game time, time in forward line, opposition, effect of other forwards, eg. degree of difficulty.

I don't think it is blatant but if Nahas gets a few cheaper possession/goals regularly the figures can be misleading particularly when you are looking at 1.3 and 1.6 goals per game averages

 

[Bazzar]

Stats can be misleading. You have to adjust for game time, time in forward line, opposition, effect of other forwards, eg. degree of difficulty.

I don't think it is blatant but if Nahas gets a few cheaper possession/goals regularly the figures can be misleading particularly when you are looking at 1.3 and 1.6 goals per game averages

And Betts and Milne dont get cheap goals?

 

[the push up king]

Milne is the exception as he is one of the all time great small forwards. This year Betts had a good year but career wise-

Nahas- Betts​

Career - Career​

77 Games 166​

8.2 Kicks Per Game 7.0​

6.9 Handballs Per Game 4.8​

15.1 Disposals Per Game 11.7​

3.4 Marks Per Game 2.9​

1.3 Goals Per Game 1.6​

0.8 Behinds Per Game 0.9​

4.1 Tackles Per Game 3.1​

1.1 Frees For Per Game 0.8​

0.8 Frees Against Per Game 0.5​

​

The little big man needs more recognition. I'm sure Dimma appreciates his worth.​

​

I personally don't rate Betts as much as some. His recognition is not for the amount he contributes, it's how spectacular what he does is from time to time. Betts has the ability to kick a bag as we have seen first hand. But with an average of 1.8 goals a game he definitely has more quite games than good.

Nahas on the other hand doesnt have the big games that betts sometimes has, yet he only averages .2 of a goal less per game.

Over 10 games it could look something like this

Betts : 1,2,5,0,0,2,1,4,0,3 avg: 1.8 per g
Naha: 2,1,2,1,1,2,2,3,0,2 avg: 1.6 per g

 

[Mr Magic]

And Betts and Milne dont get cheap goals?

they do get some but Milne has more tricks, Betts better kick at goal, better mark so they can create more.

This year Nahas, would have played more up forward probably with King injured for some. Betts has to compete versus Garlett and others and probably had better opposition as Carlton higher on the ladder than RFC the prev year so CFC get a worse biased draw from AFL HQ. So Betts and Mlne against better defenses.

When looking at the Betts and Nahas comparison who where the goals against defensive wise and what was the make-up of the CFC and RFC forward lines during their play, these are important factors among others like injuries and other anomolies

 

[tigerdan]

they do get some but Milne has more tricks, Betts better kick at goal, better mark so they can create more.

This year Nahas, would have played more up forward probably with King injured for some. Betts has to compete versus Garlett and others and probably had better opposition as Carlton higher on the ladder than RFC the prev year so CFC get a worse biased draw from AFL HQ. So Betts and Mlne against better defenses.

When looking at the Betts and Nahas comparison who where the goals against defensive wise and what was the make-up of the CFC and RFC forward lines during their play, these are important factors among others like injuries and other anomolies

Maybe i'm wrong, but it sounds to me like you are making excuses because you didn't think that Nahas' stats would look so good against Betts. I'd also argue that Edwards played forward more this year, so that could have seen Nahas spend more time away from goal than normal.

Actually I have to admit that I was surprised Nahas' stats looked so good. I think Betts just plays well against us and s**t against other teams. He certainly does have that mercurial ability to kick a goal out of his ass.

 

[Mr Magic]

Maybe i'm wrong, but it sounds to me like you are making excuses because you didn't think that Nahas' stats would look so good against Betts. I'd also argue that Edwards played forward more this year, so that could have seen Nahas spend more time away from goal than normal.

Actually I have to admit that I was surprised Nahas' stats looked so good. I think Betts just plays well against us and s**t against other teams. He certainly does have that mercurial ability to kick a goal out of his arse.

Your wrong, mainly because, although I may have thought the Betts goal average might be higher, Betts is no superstar either, and frankly Nahas goal effort is only the bare minimum for his position IMO.

Really it is about the whole package. Forward pocket need to kick minimum 35 goals a year, plus do the defense , plus support the other forwards, mark, snap, be a presence and alternative focal point. The need to be in the mind of defenses a little as a threat that needs to be watched.

For mine , Nahas just doesn't bring enough, not good enough in the air, physically not strong enough and not dual sided enough either, On top of that he doesn't kick the freak goals either so atm, he wouldn't be in my 22 and I would have kept Morton in the 22 before Nahas anyday when he visited the reserves

 

[Morro]

Your wrong, mainly because, although I may have thought the Betts goal average might be higher, Betts is no superstar either, and frankly Nahas goal effort is only the bare minimum for his position IMO.

Really it is about the whole package. Forward pocket need to kick minimum 35 goals a year, plus do the defense , plus support the other forwards, mark, snap, be a presence and alternative focal point. The need to be in the mind of defenses a little as a threat that needs to be watched.

For mine , Nahas just doesn't bring enough, not good enough in the air, physically not strong enough and not dual sided enough either, On top of that he doesn't kick the freak goals either so atm, he wouldn't be in my 22 and I would have kept Morton in the 22 before Nahas anyday when he visited the reserves

I think you are wrong Magic.

Wrong on so many points.

35 goals a year? Who says? You?

Nahas pretty much does everything you say. Like it or lump it, he compares well with the best based on 2012.

And that crap about better opposition due to Carlton finishing higher. Gimme a break.

 

[Mr Magic]

I think you are wrong Magic.

Wrong on so many points.

35 goals a year? Who says? You?

Nahas pretty much does everything you say. Like it or lump it, he compares well with the best based on 2012.

And that crap about better opposition due to Carlton finishing higher. Gimme a break.

No crap about it, everyone knows about biased draws, why pies play at the G, Why Geelong had a tough run last year at the end, why Richmond goes well one year and falls back again the next.

You can think what you like but Milne has done well with what he has, LeCras is a gun, Cryil is very good but there are not to many KB's out there, Hopefully our 2012 4thdraft pick can be half as good as Chapman

At the end of the why worry about me, why not help Nahas get better???

 

[THE_GUN]

Betts is the number #1 foward in the carlton team despite his size and also gets the best defender thats suitable to play on him. the problem Betts has is that against good teams with good defensive structure he is squeezed out and covered but lets loose against weaker teams - He just doesnt have the support from a crap carlton foward line

Milne is the best small foward in the competition and comparing nahas to milne is just silly, If either were in the richmond team both betts & Milne would kick over 40-50 goals regurly

 

[DrMike]

I don't really get that.

Vickery is supposed to be Jacks support, our second highest goal kicker with "40+ goals", why would Nahas be required to kick almost as many before his season is considered a pass?

 

[Mr Magic]

Betts is the number #1 foward in the carlton team despite his size and also gets the best defender thats suitable to play on him. the problem Betts has is that against good teams with good defensive structure he is squeezed out and covered but lets loose against weaker teams - He just doesnt have the support from a crap carlton foward line

Milne is the best small foward in the competition and comparing nahas to milne is just silly, If either were in the richmond team both betts & Milne would kick over 40-50 goals regurly

You would have to think with Knights, Petterd and A Edwards a few different forward set-ups will be trialled even during the year against better opposition let alone NAB cup and the pre-season matches simply because our forward line has been so static it is simply impossible to tell what the best combination would be. This isn't even considering our youngsters which seem to have plenty of potential

 

[Mr Magic]

I don't really get that.

Vickery is supposed to be Jacks support, our second highest goal kicker with "40+ goals", why would Nahas be required to kick almost as many before his season is considered a pass?

In our premiership year our worst forward(best 22) shouldbe kicking 30 goals a season.

That isn't even 1.5 goals a game!!! nothing special

 

[DrMike]

In our premiership year our worst forward(best 22) shouldbe kicking 30 goals a season.

That isn't even 1.5 goals a game!!! nothing special

Maybe if we were forward centric but we rotate our mids through there who pick up 20's, that's one goal one of our forwards doesn't have to kick and naturally reduces the goals they would accumulate

 

[Mr Magic]

Maybe if we were forward centric but we rotate our mids through there who pick up 20's, that's one goal one of our forwards doesn't have to kick and naturally reduces the goals they would accumulate

When we get serious and the opposition gets serious, the goals from mids will be a bonus. Ideally you want the likes of Cotch predominately in the midfield as a general and Martin may well stay as a forward given his talent. My anticipation is for the Moneyball analysis to predict this scenario as superior in terms of output and effectiveness

 

[DrMike]

When we get serious and the opposition gets serious, the goals from mids will be a bonus. Ideally you want the likes of Cotch predominately in the midfield as a general and Martin may well stay as a forward given his talent. My anticipation is for the Moneyball analysis to predict this scenario as superior in terms of output and effectiveness

Pos Player Goals
1 Lewis Jetta 45
2 Adam Goodes 37
3 Sam Reid. 31
4 Ben McGlynn 30
5 Josh P. Kennedy 29
6 Kieran Jack 27
7 Lewis Roberts-Thomson 25
8 Jude Bolton 23
9 Ryan O'Keefe 20

 

[Mr Magic]

Pos Player Goals
1 Lewis Jetta 45
2 Adam Goodes 37
3 Sam Reid. 31
4 Ben McGlynn 30
5 Josh P. Kennedy 29
6 Kieran Jack 27
7 Lewis Roberts-Thomson 25
8 Jude Bolton 23
9 Ryan O'Keefe 20

largely irrelevant because when we will be playing in a GF it will be against superior opposition against the likes of GWS primed etc....

When we play football GF in 4-5 years it will be superior than what is getting dished up now probably

Goodes is more a mid when it counted though he did chip in (Goodes is a dual brownlow medalist though). See Jetta 45 at half forward, note Morton 2 goals as a pocket player not in the stats.

When Tippet plays next year a better idea of a funtioning forward line will be available with Rohan etc..

The bottom line is Sydney 2012 would probably be 30 points behind GWS in 4-5 years time that we are targeting.

Remember Swans played against the Hawthorn's defense and midfield.... I doubt we will get that luxury so our forward line will have to be better!!

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Have Betts or Milne played in a premiership or are they likely to play in one ? NO !
Milne's inability to play midfield robbed St Kilda of midfield rotations and went a long way in them drawing the granny rather than winning it .

 

[Morro]

No crap about it, everyone knows about biased draws, why pies play at the G, Why Geelong had a tough run last year at the end, why Richmond goes well one year and falls back again the next.

You can think what you like but Milne has done well with what he has, LeCras is a gun, Cryil is very good but there are not to many KB's out there, Hopefully our 2012 4thdraft pick can be half as good as Chapman

At the end of the why worry about me, why not help Nahas get better???

Ummmmmm yeah ok, I will see what I can do

 

[DrMike]

largely irrelevant because when we will be playing in a GF it will be against superior opposition against the likes of GWS primed etc....

When we play football GF in 4-5 years it will be superior than what is getting dished up now probably

Goodes is more a mid when it counted though he did chip in (Goodes is a dual brownlow medalist though). See Jetta 45 at half forward, note Morton 2 goals as a pocket player not in the stats.

When Tippet plays next year a better idea of a funtioning forward line will be available with Rohan etc..

The bottom line is Sydney 2012 would probably be 30 points behind GWS in 4-5 years time that we are targeting.

Remember Swans played against the Hawthorn's defense and midfield.... I doubt we will get that luxury so our forward line will have to be better!!

A lot of assumptions on your part, I'm simply providing facts that prove you don't need to kick the most amount of goals over a season to win a Grand Final. You just need to have a total score greater than your opposition. That comes from effort across the ground, stopping goals being scored against you in defence, stopping the ball from getting to defence or getting pushed back into defence and moving the ball forward in the midfield and then obviously finishing that work in our forward.

I honestly don't have an opinion on Nahas because he's one of those players that is competing for a position and I trust the coaching staff to pick the best team available on the day. If he's in there then great for him, all I care about is the team getting the win.

 

[Mr Magic]

A lot of assumptions on your part, I'm simply providing facts that prove you don't need to kick the most amount of goals over a season to win a Grand Final. You just need to have a total score greater than your opposition. That comes from effort across the ground, stopping goals being scored against you in defence, stopping the ball from getting to defence or getting pushed back into defence and moving the ball forward in the midfield and then obviously finishing that work in our forward.

I honestly don't have an opinion on Nahas because he's one of those players that is competing for a position and I trust the coaching staff to pick the best team available on the day. If he's in there then great for him, all I care about is the team getting the win.

That is true but I think it is reckless to assume a highly defensive outfit will necessarily get us the chocolates in a GF when it eventuates. Sure it worked for the Swans against a team with a well known weaker defense. The point IMO is there is no guarantee who we will be up against in the GF and there is a good chance they will have a good defense. That means to cover our bases and give us a good chance, whatever the circumstance, we really need good balanced team which means a good forward line with a good defense and middle, So in this regard a boost to our forward line going forward wouldn't go astray

 

[DrMike]

That is true but I think it is reckless to assume a highly defensive outfit will necessarily get us the chocolates in a GF when it eventuates. Sure it worked for the Swans against a team with a well known weaker defense. The point IMO is there is no guarantee who we will be up against in the GF and there is a good chance they will have a good defense. That means to cover our bases and give us a good chance, whatever the circumstance, we really need good balanced team which means a good forward line with a good defense and middle, So in this regard a boost to our forward line going forward wouldn't go astray

Of course, but I think the club will be trying to do that without us questioning a single player

 

[Rubber Hips]

I'm happy with Nahas...with more support ( A Edwards, C Knights, a fit Ty Vickery ) Robbie should go well in 2013

 

[tigerdan]

defence, stopping the ball from getting to defence or getting pushed back into defence .

Finally someone who knows how to spell defenCe!!!

 

[captain blood 17]

Nahas is one of those players who has been able to improve each year and it's a credit to the coaching staff to have extracted what they have out of Robin. My main issues are he goes to ground to easy, and he has absolutely no left foot. One the flip side, he is very sharp and around goals and scores more often than not, and does have a good defensive side to His game.It's interesting to see the Betts v Nahas stats. Betts was almost or was AA last season yeah? So give the guy some credit.
Currently Nahas is in our best 22, but, unlike some other posters, I am happy to have him as a pure forward. Goals win games ultimately. Statistically we were the 6th best team, but due to an inability to convert, we missed finals. We need him around the goals. Sure, he can push up the ground where required, but, he does his best work in the forward 50, leave him there I say.
So for 2013, normal transmission to resume.

 

[Dags21]

Was not a sh.edwards fan this time last year but he showed his worth thru th season... Hope nanas can do th same, although he will probably force th push up king out.
IMO pettard and knights won't take his spot on th field, both being much more small marking forwards. I would like to think that th forward line will need one of those two in each week to drag defenders away from Vicks and jr8, leaving nanas for opportunist and forward press goals... Having said that, any of our resting midfielders could fill that roll..
Great to have pressure on best 22 spots