Preview Who stays, who goes? - Hawthorn vs Eagles

[Bardo State]

I think Murphy is a good player and will come in for the cats game but for the eagles I think we have to go with one of Lisle or Shoe

 

[TheFourPillars]

Just a thought Murphy is a good disposer of the ball by foot... He did play well towards the end of last year. Has limitations in what role he can play but not everyone can be a star. So long as he fulfils his role for the team and i think he did that last year he will deserve his spot. If some one else can do a better job in his role they will replace him simple as that.

 

[The Kipster]

You're being too harsh on Murphy, Kip.

He was actually really good in the second half of 2010 once he gained a bit of confidence.

I'll admit he was awful early on.

He can replace Stratton this week and if he doesn't perform, Schoey should be right to take his spot the following week.

fair enough Shepp...servicability (if there is such a word ) is one tick in the box but more is needed if we are to progress, this is his limitations.

Just a thought Murphy is a good disposer of the ball by foot... He did play well towards the end of last year. Has limitations in what role he can play but not everyone can be a star. So long as he fulfils his role for the team and i think he did that last year he will deserve his spot. If some one else can do a better job in his role they will replace him simple as that.

Thats a fair call too FP, last year we didn't have the depth we have now, the point is exactly that, we don't need to go for the standard issue in 2011 at this stage so lets test the waters of the unknown

 

[Hawthorn4ever]

Re Murphy you have to put his performances into perspective. He performs well when given easy tasks n is applauded. Ie. All he dies is shut down the small crumbers n doesn't offer any offence or assists other defenders eg as a third man up.

And of course on more challenging assignments he fails miserably both in shutting down that defender and offering any help n offence at all.

People forget this guy is not afl quality as stated many times. Appears a decent bloke off the field hence is in the leadership group... But u can only get so far with one weak link.

 

[satan1]

I'm leaning towards giving Bruce a gig in the back 6, a last chance in the short term to cement his spot in the side. He just seems to be struggling with our game style, maybe a simple shut down and hurt on rebound roll will do wonders.

 

[TimmehJC"]

Anybody with the idea of pup coming in to play Strat's role is kidding themselves. The guy is 174cm (173cm on some lists). Strats is barely big enough to play on some of the guys he matches up on, what chance does a bloke who is 6 inches shorter have. Seeing as West Coast are likely to rotate NicNat (201cm) and Cox (203cm) through the forward line plus Kennedy (194cm) and Darling (191cm) he's not going to be able to play that kind of role. Fair enough to say you want him in the side, but him coming in should have little to do with Stratton out, it should more be able replacing one of the other players, not sure who.

If we decide that we need to replace Stratton (not convinced we do) the only real options that are fit are Murphy and Cheney (maybe Milne). I wouldn't be shattered if we didn't replace him and matched up something like Gilham-resting ruckman, Gibbo-Kennedy and Birch-Darling

 

[The Kipster]

Anybody with the idea of pup coming in to play Strat's role is kidding themselves. The guy is 174cm (173cm on some lists). Strats is barely big enough to play on some of the guys he matches up on, what chance does a bloke who is 6 inches shorter have. Seeing as West Coast are likely to rotate NicNat (201cm) and Cox (203cm) through the forward line plus Kennedy (194cm) and Darling (191cm) he's not going to be able to play that kind of role.

If we decide that we need to replace Stratton (not convinced we do) the only real options that are fit are Murphy and Cheney (maybe Milne). I wouldn't be shattered if we didn't replace him and matched up something like Gilham-resting ruckman, Gibbo-Kennedy and Birch-Darling

Everyone already agrees that Murph can only play on small forwards and is lost against bigger bodies...one thing Pupp can do is read the ball in-flight...Cheney is small as well...

 

[Bardo State]

If we decide that we need to replace Stratton (not convinced we do) the only real options that are fit are Murphy and Cheney (maybe Milne). I wouldn't be shattered if we didn't replace him and matched up something like Gilham-resting ruckman, Gibbo-Kennedy and Birch-Darling

Don't think Cheney is that big either. Murphy is good at shutting down mediums and smalls but is not that great against talls (however I still think that Clarko wil bring him in). To replace Strats we need to bring in one of Shoe, Lisle or Milne. Shoe and Lisle would be more likely and Shoe has just come off some injury so I would give it to Lisle

 

[TimmehJC"]

Everyone already agrees that Murph can only play on small forwards and is lost against bigger bodies...one thing Pupp can do is read the ball in-flight...Cheney is small as well...

Cheney is an inch shorter than Strats, compared to 6 inches shorter with pup, fairly big difference. Pup on even Darling is like Hodge rucking against Cox (without the absolute awesomeness of Luke Hodge). Yes Murph has done his best work on small-mid forwards (towelled LeCras once) but if Pup is made to line up on one of the big boys it will be chopping the arms-free kick every time. This is why we took C.Brown off these types of roles, because the umps just wouldn't let it happen. Not against trying Cheney, and definitely not against giving pup a go, just not as a Stratton replacement.

 

[The Kipster]

Cheney is an inch shorter than Strats, compared to 6 inches shorter with pup, fairly big difference. Pup on even Darling is like Hodge rucking against Cox (without the absolute awesomeness of Luke Hodge). Yes Murph has done his best work on small-mid forwards (towelled LeCras once) but if Pup is made to line up on one of the big boys it will be chopping the arms-free kick every time. This is why we took C.Brown off these types of roles, because the umps just wouldn't let it happen. Not against trying Cheney, and definitely not against giving pup a go, just not as a Stratton replacement.

Well I didn't know that.....therefore we should consider a reshuffle of the deck but bring in some pace to suit...

 

[Beandip]

I wasn't suggesting a one for one swap of Puopolo for Stratton, but rather bringing him into the back six, and moving the others around to cover the big guys like you said.

The reason to bring him in would be his pace and pressure on a tall forward line, he's strong and can tackle, he would be there for when the ball hits the ground to force turnovers and rebound it out, even if it's just belting, then handballing to Suckling who does the long kick (as pup's kicking leaves a bit to be desired).

 

[Turly]

I think the whole murphy thing is getting a bit out of control on here guy's lol, the problem isn't that murphy will play in our back 6, it's more that he will be in our back 6 against west coast with no reasonable matchup for him. I have nothing against murphy, I think he does his job well and that is to shut down the best small fwd, now without lecras and hams their is none!! So seriously what ideal matchup is their for him?? Lynch, Darling, Kennedy??

We either need to bring in someone that can play KPD, or by bringing in someone that can hurt them offensively like puopolo or smith.

 

[Hawks1994]

Obviously Rioli and Mitchell in, but the outs are bamboozaling me at the moment. Murphy will get the spot left by Strats. One good reason, the coaches love him. Maybe if he plays on the youngster, Darling then he may do ok, but i'm not sure. The two other outs are going to be tough. Maybe Ossie as I heard that he hurt his calf, and possibly Bruce, but I can't even cut anyone from last week. everyone did there job

 

[Rik E Boy]

We will need another tall unless the weather is dreadful again. Cyril Mitch and Lisle in. Stratton, Ozzie and Bruce out if it's based on form.

I just checked the Launceston forecast and it looks like no rain down there this weekend. Also, terrible luck for Stratton. Never like to see these young blokes go down with serious injuries.

 

[arupist]

I reckon the team needs an Angus.

Give Liquorland a run. Showed some promise in the NAB and now has a chance to develop. Wouldn't be the first to be thrown is at the deep end.

OK, a bit tongue in cheek, but we do not have much in the way of an immediate replacement.

What we could do is let Hale or Twister drift across the back line taking the hitouts and staying there after the ball goes forward. We end up double teaming the danger tall. Can also send Hodgey and Goo back to help out. Bring in Mitch and Cyril.

May require a tweak of the plan until one of our more developed talls can get back on the park.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

I think people get 2008 and 2010 Murphy mixed up with 2009 Murphy.
In 2009 with no Croad and no Gilham, Murphy was forced to play on the tall forwards and struggled as you would expect. In 2008 and 2010 he was allowed to play his correct role depending on match ups and was a very good valuable player for the team.

I think you too are confused HAWKER44.

People appear to be getting 2 - 3 games of 2009 mixed up with the whole season. Yep he got rag-dolled by Hall and a couple of other bigger forwards, other than that though he then spent his remaining games that year underwhelming on smaller forwards.

We need to be clear, until 2010, Murphy's performances were generally, very poor and 90% of those were on players his own size.

Yes he had a better year in 2010, particularly as a pure stopping defender. His disposal efficiency was very good, because he played within his limitations and tended to only get the ball in the back 50 and then proceed to chip kick across goal to Gilham, Guerra, Birchall, Ellis or Gibson, who then took responsibility for trying to find a way out of our back 50.

I don't doubt in 2010 he played a vital role, but numerous times I frustratingly watched him ensure that his man didn't kick a goal, only to let an opposition player run into an open goal, when he could have left his man and confronted the opposition.

For mine, he is a one trick pony - a pure stopper is ok if you can shut down the likes of Franko, Riewoldt and Brown, but not as a small-to-medium defender.

I would prefer to see what Puopolo and Cheney can bring. We lack pace and blokes that are prepared to take the game on. If either of these two can keep a bloke quiet and provide something offensively, they must be played ahead of Tom.

Time will tell...

 

[The Kipster]

. Maybe if he plays on the youngster, Darling then he may do ok, but i'm not sure.

the last youngster from the Eagles was Nic Nat....2 of the most memorable goals for the wrong reasons and Murph featured in both....

 

[Brishawk]

I think you too are confused HAWKER44.

People appear to be getting 2 - 3 games of 2009 mixed up with the whole season. Yep he got rag-dolled by Hall and a couple of other bigger forwards, other than that though he then spent his remaining games that year underwhelming on smaller forwards.

We need to be clear, until 2010, Murphy's performances were generally, very poor and 90% of those were on players his own size.

Yes he had a better year in 2010, particularly as a pure stopping defender. His disposal efficiency was very good, because he played within his limitations and tended to only get the ball in the back 50 and then proceed to chip kick across goal to Gilham, Guerra, Birchall, Ellis or Gibson, who then took responsibility for trying to find a way out of our back 50.

I don't doubt in 2010 he played a vital role, but numerous times I frustratingly watched him ensure that his man didn't kick a goal, only to let an opposition player run into an open goal, when he could have left his man and confronted the opposition.

For mine, he is a one trick pony - a pure stopper is ok if you can shut down the likes of Franko, Riewoldt and Brown, but not as a small-to-medium defender.

I would prefer to see what Puopolo and Cheney can bring. We lack pace and blokes that are prepared to take the game on. If either of these two can keep a bloke quiet and provide something offensively, they must be played ahead of Tom.

Time will tell...

Agreed 100%

 

[Off The Couch]

Maybe if he plays on the youngster, Darling then he may do ok, but i'm not sure.

That youngster will maul him - he is a very strong overhead mark, he is quick, is an extremely solid build and he will out muscle Murphy at every contest.

The match ups for this game are going to be really interesting - Gilham may be the best one for Darling as I think Gibbo will need to go with Kennedy who has a tendency to roam a fair bit. As for Lynch who knows - lets just hope that last week was an abberation for him and he will return to the form that we all know and 'love'.

 

[Hungry Hawk]

Lisle is a match up for Q. But it just aint gunna happen.

 

[Easy Slips Catch]

Moose must play. We need to blood one more tall defender. If Gibbo or Gilly fall over we are knackered.

Moose has size and can read the high ball. His disposal is not flash but not horrible, he is not painfully slow and he plays with a bit of vigour. Worst case he goes forward and swaps with Rough or he frees up Suzie and Suzie plays back.

Dunno why we drafted Cheney.

 

[Neville Bartos]

Birch will play on and annihilate Darling. He's at home, he's fit and he's got his angry pants on.

 

[Brishawk]

Birch will play on and annihilate Darling. He's at home, he's fit and he's got his angry pants on.

Yep, Birch is back. May get Embley at times too and will give him similar treatment. Can't believe people are calling for him to be dropped!

 

[Hawkinspired]

For what its worth Nic Nat and Cox won the hitouts 62-32 last time against the lone Renouf.

 

[Neville Bartos]

That's too many stoppages, I don't know why we'd allow a game style that would expose our weakness. We need to think about reducing the stoppages by keeping the ball alive in tackles and back Mitchell, Rioli, Sewell, Hodge, Shiels and Lewis to get the ball clear. Considering they're up against arguably the league's worst contested midfield I can't accept us not totally dominating the contested and clearance stats