Traded Will Setterfield [traded to Carlton with #71 for #43 & future 2nd round pick]

[Colonial]

Well that's a risk both clubs take when one swaps over a future draft pick.

Both?

What risk do carlton take?
They cant get worse.
They get an AA mid and we have no idea what pick we get.



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[Isaac Cumming No 1]

We just had our 'Melbourne 2012' year. Took them 6 years to get back into the finals.

I'm more comfortable with where our list is at with relation to young talent, that what Melbourne were in 2012.

Defenders: Weitering, Marchbank, Plowman, Docherty, Williamson, Macreadie, Byrne, O'Brien
Forwards: Curnow, McKay, McGovern*, Pickett, JSOS, Garlett
Mids: Cripps, Dow, SPS, Setterfield*, Walsh*, Kennedy, Fisher, Shiel*

(* pending trades/ drafts this year).

Shiel is 26, Docherty 25, Cripps and McGovern 24. The rest are mainly 18-22.

Just need to eek out another few years from Kruezer, Murphy, Simpson, Jones and Ed Curnow while those 18-22 year old guys get to the magical 100 game/ 4-5 year mark. Priorities next year include a quality small forward (Fasolo will do this year as a F/A) and a ruckman (Kruezer, Lobbe and Phillips are always either breaking down and getting on).

Wouldnt be shocked to see us throw the farm at a F/A small forward or quality ruck next year.

Been a shithouse 3-4 years as a Carlton supporter, but the hard work is done now at least (again; pending drafts/ trades this year).

Setterfield is pretty much a blank canvas, as long as his rehab goes well. I expect you'll get a trade discount for the risk.

Shiel is fascinating to me. In previous years he's been largely an in and under mid. My memories of him in his breakout year in 2015 are getting the ball out with opposition mids hanging onto him. In 2016 he was dead equal with Ward and Coniglio in stats for clearances.

This year he's getting some hard ball but lurking outside a handball off the contest a lot at the clearances.

Like Smith his role just might be part if his motivation in seeking a change. I get Cripps will be your prime in and under mid, but you need rotations and variations to avoid being too predictable. I think he's awesome but last year wasn't his best. I'd also just wonder a bit why he dropped out of our leadership group this year. Could well be nothing other than Kelly was promoted to VC and De Boer deservedly moved into the group, but I think given your age profile in the midfield and Docherty generally not in the engine room you'd want him to be a leader?

 

[gandaal]

That's what happens when you burn 4-5 years of drafting. SOS won't hit everything out of the park, but every move has made has nudged the club forward. Now with Lloyd and Russel maybe the rest of the club starts to catch on.

And at a quick glance I get 13...hardly 20.

It's 15 actually. Ed Curnow was a Crows rookie for a year and Rowe was a rookie at the Swans for two.

 

[Kramer1]

It's 15 actually. Ed Curnow was a Crows rookie for a year and Rowe was a rookie at the Swans for two.

Both taken from outside the AFL...anyone could have picked them.

 

[gandaal]

Both taken from outside the AFL...anyone could have picked them.

Yes, both spent a lot of time in lower level comps.

 

[PP34]

Both?

What risk do carlton take?
They cant get worse.
They get an AA mid and we have no idea what pick we get.



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Well as a hypothetical let's say Carlton trades next years first for Shiel straight up, hoping that pick ends up outside the top 5 and even lower if possible.

Carlton supposedly doesn't want to trade pick 1 this year for Shiel because they want Walsh and see him as a real talent. If they trade next year's pick and have another disastrous year finishing last again then they've overpaid for Shiel.

 

[Blue1980]

Do Carlton supporters honestly believe they can get Shiel, McGovern and Setterfield without giving us this year's first and next year's first.

Shiel and McGovern are contracted. Not sure on Setterfield.

If so, interested to know how.

Next years first, not this years.

GWS have to off load players to be under the cap. Setterfield has only played 2 games, Sheil for a likely top 6 pick next year is fine.

 

[Colonial]

Well as a hypothetical let's say Carlton trades next years first for Shiel straight up, hoping that pick ends up outside the top 5 and even lower if possible.

Carlton supposedly doesn't want to trade pick 1 this year for Shiel because they want Walsh and see him as a real talent. If they trade next year's pick and have another disastrous year finishing last again then they've overpaid for Shiel.

They cant finish lower than they already are this year.

They can finish much higher.

All the risk is on the Giants with a future pick.

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[PP34]

They cant finish lower than they already are this year.

They can finish much higher.

All the risk is on the Giants with a future pick.

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What has that got to do with anything?

How is the possibility of giving up a future number 1 pick not a risk for Carlton?

 

[LordLucifer]

Whilst the news that Setterfield has nominated the Blues is extremely pleasing, there is still a deal to be done to finalise the issue so no champagne corks till then.

I'll be much more upbeat & positive once he is 100% fit and regularly playing seniors, to date, he hasn't done anything of note due to injuries.

 

[Colonial]

What has that got to do with anything?

How is the possibility of giving up a future number 1 pick not a risk for Carlton?

They cant be any worse but they can be much better.

The risk is on the Giants

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[PP34]

They cant be any worse but they can be much better.

The risk is on the Giants

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Again, you're missing the point.

If Carlton doesn't want to trade their number 1 pick for Shiel this year because they view that as overpaying, how is it not a risk to trade their future first rounder next year?

I'm not saying it's a giant risk but it's a risk. Carlton has another terrible season and that's pick 1 for Shiel which they view as too much.

 

[Colonial]

Again, you're missing the point.

If Carlton doesn't want to trade their number 1 pick for Shiel this year because they view that as overpaying, how is it not a risk to trade their future first rounder next year?

I'm not saying it's a giant risk but it's a risk. Carlton has another terrible season and that's pick 1 for Shiel which they view as too much.

Not at all.

They cant finish any worse next year. Hense why they are pushing next years 1st instead of this years.

But they can finish allot better.

All the risk in next year is on the Giants.

Meanwhile Carlton get an AA mid in his prime.

You wont convince me otherwise.

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[branedotorg]

Not at all.

They cant finish any worse next year. Hense why they are pushing next years 1st instead of this years.

But they can finish allot better.

All the risk in next year is on the Giants.

Meanwhile Carlton get an AA mid in his prime.

You womt convince me otherwise.

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only thing worse would be relegation ...

 

[PP34]

Not at all.

They cant finish any worse next year. Hense why they are pushing next years 1st instead of this years.

But they can finish allot better.

All the risk in next year is on the Giants.

Meanwhile Carlton get an AA mid in his prime.

You womt convince me otherwise.

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Of course they're going to push next years first. It's the less risky of the two, doesn't mean there isn't any risk involved for Carlton. No team would want to be giving up a number 1 pick in any draft unless it's for a Dangerfield, Buddy, Martin, Kelly type.

 

[Colonial]

Of course they're going to push next years first. It's the less risky of the two, doesn't mean there isn't any risk involved for Carlton. No team would want to be giving up a number 1 pick in any draft unless it's for a Dangerfield, Buddy, Martin, Kelly type.

As o said. All the risk is on the Giants if that's the deal.

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[ferrisb]

Very impressed with reaction from most Bombers fans.

Congratulating Carlton and generally wishing Will back to fitness.

I hate praising anything Essendon but bigfooty is often a troll pissing contest, so it's refreshing to see good sportsmanship.

Bravo

 

[ferrisb]

yeah im not sure the strategic list move they had in mind was taking a gun at pick 5 then letting him walk out on a contract two years later for cap space and more draft picks. that’s completely laughable

Setterfield did his acl in between that.

That impacts his trade value.

Not GWS's fault they aren't getting pick 5 back for him.

 

[ferrisb]

It is true.

I just find it fascinating.

I thought Hawks had heaps, and when I counted they were around 6. Thought we had a few and we had 7 I think IIRC.

I keep an avid interest in Carlton because my entire family is Carlton supporters and found it really interesting that you had 20 players on your list that started at other clubs.

Surely that is interesting to you? Does it mean that the draft is failing you? Or that players want to leave? I'm not really sure what it means but I definitely think it is interesting.

IMHO our number of recycled players is not an indication of us giving up on the draft, it it's actually been a mechanism to allow us to maintain a serious draft presence.

When SOS came to us our list was a shambles. He's picked up lots of bargains from other clubs (high risk, low cost, probably high failure rate) as a cheap way to fill the list without costing us draft presence.

We've hit the draft really hard in the last three years by not trading in solid players but instead an army of plodders and rehab candidates instead.

 

[Great8]

2019 pick 1 will be in the trade along with other picks and pick swaps. Hawthorn won't be able to deal and Essendon won't be able to offer anything better than what we are. That's where it sits.

We would be offering up this years first rounder as a starter so how is that not better than what you are offering?

 

[ferrisb]

Not at all.

They cant finish any worse next year. Hense why they are pushing next years 1st instead of this years.

But they can finish allot better.

All the risk in next year is on the Giants.

Meanwhile Carlton get an AA mid in his prime.

You wont convince me otherwise.

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If I was gws, of course I would want Carlton's 2018 pick instead of 2019.

But that's little help IF we tell you 2018 pick 1 is off the table.

Remember the Hawks have pick 15 to play with as a starting point, Essendon has pick 9. Shiel might be worth pick 1, but your positiom is weakened by what other teams can (or can't offer). You should be very confident our 1st rounder next year is better than what Hawks and Ess can offer (before anyone adds sweeteners).

By knocking it back 2019 you're opening yourself up to a) worse offers or b) keeping Shiel.

What you're asking us to do is bid against ourselves....

Anyway, this is off topic.

Welcome to Carlton, young William!

 

[Orange Agent]

I dont see GWS benefitting from trading Setterfield. If he's on a long contract on the back of injury interrupted year, it's likely to be below market rate wages. Carlton might need to tempt GWS with overs to part with this guy.

Apparently his wages go up significantly next year. $400k +, horrendous contract whoever is responsible.

 

[ferrisb]

We would be offering up this years first rounder as a starter so how is that not better than what you are offering?

You think Carlton will finish better than 10th next year? I don't.

Although granted a club would generally prefer a current pick to a future pick.

 

[HairyO]

If I was gws, of course I would want Carlton's 2018 pick instead of 2019.

But that's little help IF we tell you 2018 pick 1 is off the table.

Remember the Hawks have pick 15 to play with as a starting point, Essendon has pick 9. Shiel might be worth pick 1, but your positiom is weakened by what other teams can (or can't offer). You should be very confident our 1st rounder next year is better than what Hawks and Ess can offer (before anyone adds sweeteners).

By knocking it back 2019 you're opening yourself up to a) worse offers or b) keeping Shiel.

What you're asking us to do is bid against ourselves....

Anyway, this is off topic.

Welcome to Carlton, young William!

Unless you want a bunch of picks in the top 20 or 30 this year.

 

[fridgeman]

Pretty disappointed to be losing Setterfield but hopefully he can go and have a good career at the Blues
What contract do you think will be offered?
Currently it is speculated he is on the next 2 years at 400k
so maybe the Blues offer an option for a 3rd year at 500?
As for a trade still plenty of options and I think plenty of other trades will be done first but I would see the Giants trying to move up as high in the draft this year as possible and then taking picks next year so dependent on the deal for Lobb and if Shiel nominates but anything with a pick value that adds up to a late first and also the Giants could take an upgrade for one of their 2nd or 3rd rounders

Apparently his wages go up significantly next year. $400k +, horrendous contract whoever is responsible.

This is the cost of keeping high draft picks at the club and I think the Lions/Freo and definitely the Suns have this problem
It would be interesting to know for example what McGrath extended for at the Bombers and also Petracca at the Demons. It is down to the club creating a strong culture and also spreading out the top picks