Delisted Jack Martin [Selected by Carlton in the PSD]

[Opine]

IIRC, there was mention in media, a week or 2 ago, that the AFLW CBA proposed introduction of State based draft as well as a National draft; depending on a player 's choice. I like it; players should be able able to choose the State in which they want live and work. Hopefully, the AFL goes down the same path in the not to distant future; it might temper the arrogance of those clubs in rugby heartland.

 

[Opine]

Really ? Do you wear a tin foil hat ?

Pick 9 for martin+ 15 is overs ? (That trade offer was said by GC list manager after the deadline )

Considering you didn't have any other picks it was generous from gold coast .

Martin not AA . Bit hard when your not in the VFL bubble in a team who has been at the bottom of the ladder your whole career .

It looks to me like Sos was either trying to get martin for massive unders or in the PSD .

All good if you get him for nothing but short term gain as you get martin but the next time a quality player goes to victoria they will look at carlton as the team who fu**s around and doesnt get the trade done .

My club on the other hand get the trade done and players know that .

Even if we do pay overs sometimes

Don't embellish the truth. Your club didn't do a bloody good job of getting its player last year.

 

[Yamumluvsbigcox]

Don't embellish the truth. Your club didn't do a bloody good job of getting its player last year.

Hard to get the trade done for kelly when he was contracted and geelong refused to trade him .

 

[blitzer]

Its a matter of Gold coast wanting to be fairly compensated for one of their better players who they originally paid pick 2 for .

This is not a player who hasn't come on after being taken early . He has almost 100 games under his belt and is a very damaging outside player .

Carlton and SOS low balling GC is a s**t move and makes them look like a bunch of tossers

If the roles were reversed there would be media outrage but this is the VFL and barely an eyebrow raised

I dunno about everyone else but its hard to find the outrage when you know that Gold Coast are about to get a bunch of priority picks as a reward for being incompetent and also access to an expanded academy with no requirements to actually bid on said players the way it works for every other club.

Frankly if it wasn't for the fact that it will help Carlton I don't think I could find a negative in the situation.

 

[Monkey King]

Yeah but people on here are saying GC should do the right thing by Martin, contract or not why is it different for those clubs not to do the right thing by those players?

A contract represent a choice. A commitment to action and recompense, agreed to by both parties in an act of free will. No one blinks that Papley was held to his decision. Everyone gets it. Happens all the time.

A player who’s fulfilled their agreement being forced to stay against their will though; yeah that’s a totally different situation, which is why one happens every other year and the other doesn’t happen very often, if at all, these days.

If you want to just insist that contract status and freedom to exercise choice doesn’t factor in, then forget about replying to me. It’s just an intrinsic difference of our core personal values that won’t be overcome.

 

[Monkey King]

Agree. But Gold Coast have no obligation to delist him and let him get picked up as a DFA by Carlton. And they could pick him up in the PSD if they thought it was best for them.

Yeah I don’t think they should delist him, but I think it‘s terribly poor form to redraft a player who’s fulfilled their obligations and adamantly wants to change clubs after 7-8 years. So much so, I think the AFL should amend the rules to disallow this from ever happening in future.

 

[Blackas87]

A contract represent a choice. A commitment to action and recompense, agreed to by both parties in an act of free will. No one blinks that Papley was held to his decision. Everyone gets it. Happens all the time.

A player who’s fulfilled their agreement being forced to stay against their will though; yeah that’s a totally different situation, which is why one happens every other year and the other doesn’t happen very often, if at all, these days.

If you want to just insist that contract status and freedom to exercise choice doesn’t factor in, then forget about replying to me. It’s just an intrinsic difference of our core personal values that won’t be overcome.

Things in life change which is why people under contract request trades. What’s more important, the players welfare or his contract?

Every player knows the rules when they sign up to play AFL, they are a free agent after 8 years in the system. Martin in this case has had 7 years, he can sign on for 1 year and then get that free choice. The 2 clubs that he requested trades to over past 2 seasons didn’t get trades done for him. Next year he can have free choice.

As I said I’m all for clubs holding players to their contract, as I am for clubs playing by the rules of the league, and the Suns knew the rules and the position they were in when they didn’t get a trade done. Jack knows the rules when he gets free agency

 

[Opine]

Hard to get the trade done for kelly when he was contracted and geelong refused to trade him .

Bingo.

Pleased you realise that the willingness, or otherwise, of the other mob can effect the outcome; Martin was also under contract during trade period, and his club refused to trade him.

 

[manang magoos]

Things in life change which is why people under contract request trades. What’s more important, the players welfare or his contract?

Every player knows the rules when they sign up to play AFL, they are a free agent after 8 years in the system. Martin in this case has had 7 years, he can sign on for 1 year and then get that free choice. The 2 clubs that he requested trades to over past 2 seasons didn’t get trades done for him. Next year he can have free choice.

As I said I’m all for clubs holding players to their contract, as I am for clubs playing by the rules of the league, and the Suns knew the rules and the position they were in when they didn’t get a trade done. Jack knows the rules when he gets free agency

I again state he is out of contract

 

[Blackas87]

I again state he is out of contract

Are you reading what you’re replying to?

I’ll state it again for you.

He is not a free agent, he does not get free choice, he must enter the draft and get selected by the club with the first pick. He should sign a one year deal and get free agency next year

 

[Monkey King]

Things in life change which is why people under contract request trades. What’s more important, the players welfare or his contract?

Honouring legal contracts and agreements is an extremely important part of how society operates.

Change is fundamental to being alive. That’s why there’s things like contract length, performance clauses and extension triggers. You nut this stuff out before making a decision to commit two parties to a course of action.

Making a choice you later regret is not the same as being denied a choice.

 

[Blackas87]

Honouring legal contracts and agreements is an extremely important part of how society operates.

Change is fundamental to being alive. That’s why there’s things like contract length, performance clauses and extension triggers. You nut this stuff out before making a decision to commit two parties to a course of action.

Making a choice you later regret is not the same as being denied a choice.

Which is why I stated I’m all for clubs making players stick to their contracts.

Rules are in place for players of 7 or less years in the league and Gold Coast knew this when they didn’t get a trade. I’m all for them playing by the rules that have been set out

 

[Rich01]

Yeah I don’t think they should delist him, but I think it‘s terribly poor form to redraft a player who’s fulfilled their obligations and adamantly wants to change clubs after 7-8 years. So much so, I think the AFL should amend the rules to disallow this from ever happening in future.

All your suggestion does is give player managers more power during trade week. If a club can’t redraft a player, they have even less leverage at the trade table and players will be able to be traded for peanuts.

 

[Monkey King]

Rules are in place for players of 7 or less years in the league and Gold Coast knew this when they didn’t get a trade. I’m all for them playing by the rules that have been set out

As I’ve said, this is a difference of personal values. Autonomy and self determination are core values for me.

 

[Monkey King]

All your suggestion does is give player managers more power during trade week. If a club can’t redraft a player, they have even less leverage at the trade table and players will be able to be traded for peanuts.

The evidence does not support your claim.

Every year clubs without any chance of redrafting their players get trades done for fair value.

The spectre of GCS having PSD pick one didn’t impact Carlton’s offer.

 

[Carl]

Something in the 15-20 mark in this draft year.
Look what brad hill went for . I know that hill was çontracted but martins best is better and more damaging than hill . Hill is the softest outside mid in the game who always squibs contests . Martin in also very good on the outside but has a great contested game and tackles like a machine .
Martin is a quality player who would be best 22 in every team . Versitile and dynamic .

Gold coast would be filthy at him and carlton .

I hope they pick him in the PSD and get value for him in next years trade period .

We are rumoured to have offered next year's 2nd Rd pick which most people would believe to be between pick 20-25. The difference is 5 picks on an uncontracted player who doesn't want to be at the club.
Anyhow trade week is done and we can wait until the end of the month to see how this all plays out.

 

[Yamumluvsbigcox]

Bingo.

Pleased you realise that the willingness, or otherwise, of the other mob can effect the outcome; Martin was also under contract during trade period, and his club refused to trade him.

Ha ha sure buddy . Keep telling yourself this is gold coasts fault for not bending over .

 

[Yamumluvsbigcox]

I dunno about everyone else but its hard to find the outrage when you know that Gold Coast are about to get a bunch of priority picks as a reward for being incompetent and also access to an expanded academy with no requirements to actually bid on said players the way it works for every other club.

Frankly if it wasn't for the fact that it will help Carlton I don't think I could find a negative in the situation.

Spoken from the prospective of a club that feeds off the carcass of the expansion clubs .

How would your club go losing all its best players every year due to nothing more than geographical location ?

It would melt the servers .

 

[Blackas87]

As I’ve said, this is a difference of personal values. Autonomy and self determination are core values for me.

I don’t 100% get your core values.

I’ve stated on other threads I don’t believe in the draft at all, I don’t believe in players getting selected to random clubs that they have no choice over, I believe every out of contract player should be a free agent. The salary cap prevents teams loading up on every player. That’s my belief.

But under the current rules which every player signs up to, the rules the AFL players association signed off on, they don’t have free choice until they have been in the system for 8 years.

Martin has been in the system for 7. He requested a trade to Essendon last year, and Carlton this year. He doesn’t get free choice, Gold Coast had no obligation to trade him. If Martin was desperate to get out of the Gold Coast he should of been open to trades to other clubs, the Bulldogs were offering more money, if he wants to live in Melbourne there were other options he didn’t take, a trade could of got done. If he wants free choice, he knows he gets it next year.

I don’t thinks he’s desperate to get out, he more would prefer to play for a club where the future of winning looks better. As I’ve already said in this thread, his girlfriend is from the Gold Coast, since getting back from Europe he’s gone back to the Gold Coast, he’s been out fishing on one of his mates boats, last night he was out with Suns teammates at Mermaid Waters celebrating Sean Lemmens birthday. I don’t think he’s hating his life in Queensland, just prefer to play at a club with a brighter future, and in a years time he can have free choice of which club he wants to play for.

 

[Rich01]

The evidence does not support your claim.

Every year clubs without any chance of redrafting their players get trades done for fair value.

The spectre of GCS having PSD pick one didn’t impact Carlton’s offer.

Never said it did or that Carlton’s offer was unreasonable.
But taking away a clubs right to redraft their player would give them even less leverage in the future.

 

[shooshka]

I dunno about everyone else but its hard to find the outrage when you know that Gold Coast are about to get a bunch of priority picks as a reward for being incompetent and also access to an expanded academy with no requirements to actually bid on said players the way it works for every other club.

Frankly if it wasn't for the fact that it will help Carlton I don't think I could find a negative in the situation.

It would have been incompetent to trade him for a future 2nd and 3rd, it is slightly less incompetent (still not good) to let him walk for free.

Too often GC has been paying well overs (Weller), making terrible pick trades (WC, Bris) and taking unders for good players (Too many to list).

The message that refusing to trade him sends is probably not far off the worth of picks 30 and 50 next year.

On SM-G973F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[shooshka]

The evidence does not support your claim.

Every year clubs without any chance of redrafting their players get trades done for fair value.

The spectre of GCS having PSD pick one didn’t impact Carlton’s offer.

So if the trades get done every year, what is the point of the rule change you are proposing?

Sounds like a knee jerk reaction to the very minor chance that GC redraft Martin to screw carlton over.

On SM-G973F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Robertio]

I don’t 100% get your core values.

I’ve stated on other threads I don’t believe in the draft at all, I don’t believe in players getting selected to random clubs that they have no choice over, I believe every out of contract player should be a free agent. The salary cap prevents teams loading up on every player. That’s my belief.

But under the current rules which every player signs up to, the rules the AFL players association signed off on, they don’t have free choice until they have been in the system for 8 years.

Martin has been in the system for 7. He requested a trade to Essendon last year, and Carlton this year. He doesn’t get free choice, Gold Coast had no obligation to trade him. If Martin was desperate to get out of the Gold Coast he should of been open to trades to other clubs, the Bulldogs were offering more money, if he wants to live in Melbourne there were other options he didn’t take, a trade could of got done. If he wants free choice, he knows he gets it next year.

I don’t thinks he’s desperate to get out, he more would prefer to play for a club where the future of winning looks better. As I’ve already said in this thread, his girlfriend is from the Gold Coast, since getting back from Europe he’s gone back to the Gold Coast, he’s been out fishing on one of his mates boats, last night he was out with Suns teammates at Mermaid Waters celebrating Sean Lemmens birthday. I don’t think he’s hating his life in Queensland, just prefer to play at a club with a brighter future, and in a years time he can have free choice of which club he wants to play for.

Where else would he go to fish and out with his mates? He's still living on the Gold Coast until the draft.

 

[Blackas87]

Where else would he go to fish and out with his mates? He's still living on the Gold Coast until the draft.

Home to WA?

 

[Robertio]

Never said it did or that Carlton’s offer was unreasonable.
But taking away a clubs right to redraft their player would give them even less leverage in the future.

Ho many times has a club redrafted a player who wanted to leave.