- Jun 17, 2019
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4 years ago?
Which team list would you least want?
- Thread starter RUNVS
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- Jul 26, 2020
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Geelong. Who is their best young player? Miers?
Geelong by a long way , have currently built a list that just isn't good enough to win a flag and there only decent players under 22 are miers and Clarke.
Hawks are pretty average , list demographic isn't great with the likes of Mitchell, omeara,wingard, gunston and bruest unlikely to be there at our next push . We have found a couple players this year but they will need to hit the draft hard over the next 2 years to catch the talent of teams like gc , Sydney, bulldogs who i think will be challenging when we do.
Hawks are pretty average , list demographic isn't great with the likes of Mitchell, omeara,wingard, gunston and bruest unlikely to be there at our next push . We have found a couple players this year but they will need to hit the draft hard over the next 2 years to catch the talent of teams like gc , Sydney, bulldogs who i think will be challenging when we do.
- Nov 12, 2014
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Add Parfitt to that list for Geelong but thats really about it.
- Jul 13, 2015
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In his 1st year he was the best 1st year player.
In his 2nd year he didnt improve nor his 3rd.
Day is only in his 2nd year and he is the one who takes responsibility of directing the ball out of our backline. That is something Burton never did.
His injury is a big loss.
- May 13, 2007
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Massive chance too.
Games against the Suns and Roos should take a bit of heat off them but they then go into Swans (A), Port (H), Cats (H), Crows (W) and Dees (H) where they could drop all 5.
.Yikes...
Hawthorn are the easy answer. Blokes like Worpel are just utter list clogging grabage. Frost was hilarious to watch. I really missed him turning it over in the corridor.
However, Geelong has to be the smart answer. Have loaded up with +30 year olds and have clearly over estimated the list. I don't think they have any, not one "elite" young player on there list and they don't even have a round 1 selection this year...
Collingwood are just being run terriblly, the list is still pretty good.
However, Geelong has to be the smart answer. Have loaded up with +30 year olds and have clearly over estimated the list. I don't think they have any, not one "elite" young player on there list and they don't even have a round 1 selection this year...
Collingwood are just being run terriblly, the list is still pretty good.
For there sake I hope not.
Engimal v3
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I'd like to change my vote to Carlton.
Fyfe is lifeHorne will end up playing for Adelaide anyway so don't be too cut up if you don't land him.
(actually can't believe he is a mad Fremantle supporter, how the hell did that happen!?)
- Aug 15, 2014
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He actually won their best and fairest in 2019 believe it or not. He was a much better player then.
Bullshit?? I did not know that.
Yep hawks are cooked. They should just bite the bullet and start drying to get what they can for some of there older players ie. Gunston now whilst they still have some value. They need to obviously keep JOM and Mitchell, can't do a north and go all scortched earth.
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Geelong finally cooked.
but hats off they made a contending era from 2004-2021.
17 year era. Thats got to be a record.
Hats off to them. but now they are no longer contenders.
Adelaide probably the worst list after tex sloane goes.
Saints and North need a few years but have good youngsters.
Essendon could contend in 2022.
Swans academy use is unbelievable now have a list contending 2022 also.
Lot of good teams right now.
Dogs v Lions GF.
but hats off they made a contending era from 2004-2021.
17 year era. Thats got to be a record.
Hats off to them. but now they are no longer contenders.
Adelaide probably the worst list after tex sloane goes.
Saints and North need a few years but have good youngsters.
Essendon could contend in 2022.
Swans academy use is unbelievable now have a list contending 2022 also.
Lot of good teams right now.
Dogs v Lions GF.
Wojcinski
Brownlow Medallist
true, but it probably wouldn't matter anyway as we have a number of late first round picks that have minimal to no experience yet (Sam De Koning, Cooper Stephens, Max Holmes). Geelong's draft situation this year isn't all bad as we own Essendon and GWS second round picks which are projecting to be in the early 20s
I suspect you were looking out for them. Had two turn overs for the day, only 4 hawks had less. Melbourne had 15 players that turned it over as much or more than Frost. Frost also equal topped our intercepts and 1%ers, and also helped ensure your tall forwards had almost zero impact until that burst 10 minutes into the last when our pressure up the ground completely dropped away. Zero tackles was a bit disappointing thought - seemed to be too busy trying to punch Melbourne heads rather than tackling.
- Jun 26, 2012
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Both Hawthorn and Geelong look really shot going forward.
Geez a bit early to be sticking the fork into the Cats isn't it?
Intriguing to me how many here actually make comments without knowing the makeup of our list. Yeah we're due a fall, but it's also not as dire straights as some here would have you believe.
Firstly, we have Cameron for the next 6 years, plus Ratugolea who is already killing it this pre-season/in his first VFL return match. We also have Cooper Stephens as a first round draft pick who hasn't played a game yet - who the Tiges were keen on - and SDK as a long term prospect who was ranked pretty highly by others - especially Port.
Then there's Max Holmes, who was the draft bolter and who we probably gave up a pick in the 8-14 range, given our current state. He's had 3 best on grounds in the VFL, and did not look out of place in the AFL against the Hawks after just 4 months in the system.
We also had very few top end picks, but still managed to draft insanely well (thanks to 'ol Wells) in 2016 and then got a very good haul back for TK in 2017 - which has set us up fairly decently moving forward.
These are our Best 22/possible Best 22 on raw talent or first round picks, players taken from the draft in just the past 5 years -
2016
Parfitt
Stewart
Ratugolea
Jack Henry
Sam Simpson
Mark O'Connor
2017
(Tim Kelly - lost him but ended up with a draft bonanza in return through a whole range of mechanisms like the future GC trade, that netted us Cooper Stephens, Jeremy Cameron and two picks in the mid 20's from GWS/Essendon this year - all from that Pick 24
Miers
2018
Jordan Clark
Tom Atkins
2019
Sam De Koning
Cooper Stephens
Francis Evans
Brad Close
2020
Max Holmes
***********************
That's 14 players in just 5 years. Add in Jeremy Cameron, Tom Stewart, Cam Guthrie, Mitch Duncan, Blics and Danger signed 'til 2024, Menegola, plus draft picks/FA/trade ins, and it's not an awful situation. Will it mean a drop? Absolutely it will. With that said though, there's still solid areas to build on at each end of the ground, with all the player movement that happens these days.
We never completely avoided the draft, and even the Cameron trade was as a result of the Kelly trade, so it all comes out in the wash.
I foresee after the end of 2022 when Hawk and Sel retire, that we end up falling into that Bottom 6 pretty quickly. Given our status as a good club with a good environment though, I think we can bounce back via the draft and some early picks - ala Sydney without the academy picks -, given there'll still be leaders like Cameron, Blics and Stewart at either end of the ground, and Guthrie and Parfitt in the middle as a solid base for a future midfield coming through.
It's not great - it never is after being up for so long - , but I don't think it's all as dire as some are making out on here, as it isn't with Hawthorn either. I'd rather be in our prospective positions where we've competed for the best part of the past 15 years, rather than some other clubs who just float around in the wilderness going through rebuild after rebuild.
P.S. For posterity, this is what our on field side could look like come 2023 (before any draft picks/FA or trade ins over the next 2 years):
B: Bews, Blics, J. Henry
HB: Stewart, Kolo, T. Atkins
C: Menegola, O'Connor, J. Clark
FO: Ratugolea, Guthrie, Parfitt
HF: Duncan, Danger, S. Simpson
F: Dahlhaus, J. Cameron, Miers
INT: Holmes, Rohan, Narkle, Close
EMG: Evans, C. Stephens, Fort, SDK
Retired: Selwood, Hawkins, Jenkins, Tuohy, S. Higgins, I. Smith, Henderson, Stanley
Firstly, we have Cameron for the next 6 years, plus Ratugolea who is already killing it this pre-season/in his first VFL return match. We also have Cooper Stephens as a first round draft pick who hasn't played a game yet - who the Tiges were keen on - and SDK as a long term prospect who was ranked pretty highly by others - especially Port.
Then there's Max Holmes, who was the draft bolter and who we probably gave up a pick in the 8-14 range, given our current state. He's had 3 best on grounds in the VFL, and did not look out of place in the AFL against the Hawks after just 4 months in the system.
We also had very few top end picks, but still managed to draft insanely well (thanks to 'ol Wells) in 2016 and then got a very good haul back for TK in 2017 - which has set us up fairly decently moving forward.
These are our Best 22/possible Best 22 on raw talent or first round picks, players taken from the draft in just the past 5 years -
2016
Parfitt
Stewart
Ratugolea
Jack Henry
Sam Simpson
Mark O'Connor
2017
(Tim Kelly - lost him but ended up with a draft bonanza in return through a whole range of mechanisms like the future GC trade, that netted us Cooper Stephens, Jeremy Cameron and two picks in the mid 20's from GWS/Essendon this year - all from that Pick 24
Miers
2018
Jordan Clark
Tom Atkins
2019
Sam De Koning
Cooper Stephens
Francis Evans
Brad Close
2020
Max Holmes
***********************
That's 14 players in just 5 years. Add in Jeremy Cameron, Tom Stewart, Cam Guthrie, Mitch Duncan, Blics and Danger signed 'til 2024, Menegola, plus draft picks/FA/trade ins, and it's not an awful situation. Will it mean a drop? Absolutely it will. With that said though, there's still solid areas to build on at each end of the ground, with all the player movement that happens these days.
We never completely avoided the draft, and even the Cameron trade was as a result of the Kelly trade, so it all comes out in the wash.
I foresee after the end of 2022 when Hawk and Sel retire, that we end up falling into that Bottom 6 pretty quickly. Given our status as a good club with a good environment though, I think we can bounce back via the draft and some early picks - ala Sydney without the academy picks -, given there'll still be leaders like Cameron, Blics and Stewart at either end of the ground, and Guthrie and Parfitt in the middle as a solid base for a future midfield coming through.
It's not great - it never is after being up for so long - , but I don't think it's all as dire as some are making out on here, as it isn't with Hawthorn either. I'd rather be in our prospective positions where we've competed for the best part of the past 15 years, rather than some other clubs who just float around in the wilderness going through rebuild after rebuild.
P.S. For posterity, this is what our on field side could look like come 2023 (before any draft picks/FA or trade ins over the next 2 years):
B: Bews, Blics, J. Henry
HB: Stewart, Kolo, T. Atkins
C: Menegola, O'Connor, J. Clark
FO: Ratugolea, Guthrie, Parfitt
HF: Duncan, Danger, S. Simpson
F: Dahlhaus, J. Cameron, Miers
INT: Holmes, Rohan, Narkle, Close
EMG: Evans, C. Stephens, Fort, SDK
Retired: Selwood, Hawkins, Jenkins, Tuohy, S. Higgins, I. Smith, Henderson, Stanley
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Grand Uncle Horace
Shake down the thunder
I am sorry but Grohan at chf made coffee come out of my snozz.
Yeah that's pretty depressing, but I'm hoping that players like SDK come on to play in the ruck/forward, in order for him never to see the light of day again, haha.
Is what it is though. Certainly some holes, just more about the foundation of the team, and what we can build on via trade/draft/FA. Rohan is more of a foil, than any sort of actual forward - as you guys know. Will just have to see how the club decides to handle that hole on our list (which is obviously why obtaining Cameron was so important), and whether that is SDK playing as our 2nd key forward, Ratugolea being our 2nd forward or ruck, which then enables SDK to play ruck/us obtain a ruck/our drafted rucks like Neale come on etc.
Actually, on second thought, probably works better if Danger plays forward more (which he's more likely to do at that point of his career) allowing him as a genuine CHF option...and then having Guthrie, Parfitt, Rata, O'Connor, Menegola and Clark as our onball/wing division:
B: Bews, Blics, J. Henry
HB: Stewart, Kolo, T. Atkins
C: Menegola, O'Connor, J. Clark
FO: Ratugolea, Guthrie, Parfitt
HF: Duncan, Danger, S. Simpson
F: Dahlhaus, J. Cameron, Miers
INT: Holmes, Rohan, Narkle, Close
EMG: Evans, C. Stephens, Fort, SDK
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I, like everybody else, have no idea how this is going to play out but you sound exactly Hawks fans from ~2 years ago and to a lesser extent, North fans from a similar time period. I agree your stay might be shorter at the bottom because you have used the draft more lately but that is entirely contingent of the quality of the actual players.
I wouldn't say I sound like that at all, lol. Hawks and North fans thought theirs would be a rebound into the Top 8, not a bottom out and then a reset ala Sydney - as I've stated. But each to their own.
Was just pointing out that it's not as catastrophic as some are making out, as we haven't completely avoided the draft previously like the aforementioned/developed badly (as you yourself acknowledged).
Sydney spent 2 seasons in the bottom 6 didn't they? That's unusual. I don't think that's a realistic aim for a club without an academy. You haven't accrued the elite talent like they did whilst still up. I also think Sydney this year is a bit of a false dawn. A more moderate version of GC, who everyone gets excited about at the start of the season before they fall in a heap.
It may or may not be that catastrophic. Plenty of North and Hawks fans thought they drop to the bottom 6 for a couple of years, grab a couple elite talents and then magically be back in the competition for the top 8/in the top 8 again (where Sydney are now).
I think you'll spend 4-5 in the bottom 6, like most clubs do.
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