List Mgmt. List Management Discussion for 2021

[LMGjr]

At the half way point, it's pretty clear we're absolutely trash. Both in list quality and gameplan. Unfortunately gameplan won't change until Clarko is no longer the coach, but the list quality can be improved through playing as many young players as possible who are unknown at this point in time due to lack of exposure at AFL level.

We need to get a better idea of what the younger players can offer and if they're worth pursuing with. We can't get by on just culling the bare minimum and keeping players around on potential. That hasn't worked in a while. We need to work out who has shown enough to warrant keeping for if or when we're in contention again, who is worth keeping as depth in a good side, and who is depth in a bottom side aka a list clogger. Then we'll be able to know how many high(ish) draft picks we need focus on getting during trade week.

TOB has shown he's nothing more than a list clogger, as have Howe and Nash. They should only be given games when in dire need. Key word being 'should' because we all know TOB and Howe are first selected because Clarko prefers list clogging EXPERIENCE due to their ability of knowing the running patterns. Others like Cousins, Morrison and Lewis are flirting with their form and are going to want to show more if they want to continue at AFL level.

Newcombe isn't going to come in and suddenly make us better. He's a one-paced, one-position inside mid that we have a plethora of. Most have bought into the fairytale of a BHH making it at Hawthorn, however had he come from another club, I'm sure most on here would be scratching their heads asking why we got yet another slow inside mid. There's also the skill and speed difference between the VFL and AFL that most haven't factored in yet, either. Does he have the clean hands and vision to adapt to the far greater speed? A lot don't. For example, Howe is a great VFL player, better than Newcombe has shown at this point in time, yet when put into the AFL, he's a plodder who can't play inside, can't play outside, and can't play wing. Only really a defensive mid is where he's effective. Newcombe has time on his side, however.
We also haven't been great at developing talent for quite a while.

The MSD isn't where you go recruiting for stars and players for the future. It's where you can take a risk on a player and if there's no reward evident, then all you lose is 6 months of salary. If they turn out to be stars, then the risk has paid its rewards, but if Callow or Newcombe don't come on as expected is a no lose situation.

I would love to have seen the post if we had of picked up two 25yr olds in the msd

Only thing with your post is your hatred of Clarko, which is borderline obsessive (makes me think you're in fact another well know poster, but anyway) did you ever stop and think that Clarko was promised a couple of the very best free agents by a over confident smug list boss, and because of that he also convinced Clarko that it was okay to trade out all future picks for Mitchell, O'Meara and Wingard because we won't need them because of the free agents we're gonna get, but our list boss totally effed it up and so here we are?

But Clarko it is because he's stuck coaching what he's been given. Yet now said list boss is gone we're adding youth at every chance - oh but Clarko isn't playing them all at once - gripe gripe gripe .........Lmao

 

[eldorado]

Pepper might just have a few more fans in the coming months.

Hearing good things?

 

[OnTheRocks]

Not sure what afl standard really means.......

Even a very solid player like Hardwick is borderline as a no 1 small defender as he battles with quick smalls and doesn’t offer any offensive run.

Yeah I agree, you've got NFI

 

[H00t]

I would love to have seen the post if we had of picked up two 25yr olds in the msd

Only thing with your post is your hatred of Clarko, which is borderline obsessive (makes me think you're in fact another well know poster, but anyway) did you ever stop and think that Clarko was promised a couple of the very best free agents by a over confident smug list boss, and because of that he also convinced Clarko that it was okay to trade out all future picks for Mitchell, O'Meara and Wingard because we won't need them because of the free agents we're gonna get, but our list boss totally effed it up and so here we are?

But Clarko it is because he's stuck coaching what he's been given. Yet now said list boss is gone we're adding youth at every chance - oh but Clarko isn't playing them all at once - gripe gripe gripe .........Lmao

Clarko was the one pushing the entire strategy. Can’t really blame anyone else when he’s the one who got his way and put us in the hole we are in. Clarko is a legend but he’s massively messed up.

And of course a lot of us would rather play youth. Find out who will make it and have something to cheer for, rather than running out with the same players that won’t get us a win and shouldn’t be on our list next year.

 

[Bardo State]

Pepper might just have a few more fans in the coming months.

I'm one. He's dynamic in a way a lot of the other guys who play at BH aren't. A big question is his position. We seem to go with Breust, Wingard, Moore and one other dedicated small/medium forward. Rotating through Hanrahan, Morris and Brockman with Saunders also an option now. It's a lot of guys to compete with for that spot. Pepper combines a hard edge and competitiveness with speed and agility in a way those guys probably don't yet.

 

[CliffMcTainshaw]

I’d also add cousins has well outperformed Newcombe when he’s played at box hill.

Further proof you haven't been watching the Box Hill games.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Hearing good things?

Yeah, but it remains to be seen if he can jump ahead of a few.

 

[LMGjr]

Clarko was the one pushing the entire strategy. Can’t really blame anyone else when he’s the one who got his way and put us in the hole we are in. Clarko is a legend but he’s massively messed up.

And of course a lot of us would rather play youth. Find out who will make it and have something to cheer for, rather than running out with the same players that won’t get us a win and shouldn’t be on our list next year.

Mate a head coach asks for what fits into his idea of what it takes - he's proven 4 times he knows what that is - yet you and the other Clarko haters are just never going to get it. He is not the list boss the recruiting manager or talent scout - it's there job to get what he asks for - they didn't so one of them is gone. Clarko will be as well, eventually, then I guess you'll be happy.

I'm one. He's dynamic in a way a lot of the other guys who play at BH aren't..

What happened to him the other week? He laid a crunching tackle then disappeared.

 

[Dewnior]

Clarko was the one pushing the entire strategy. Can’t really blame anyone else when he’s the one who got his way and put us in the hole we are in. Clarko is a legend but he’s massively messed up.

What a lot of horseshit.

The club set the objective 3 years ago of 2 flags by 2022. Clarko was then tasked with finding a way to achieve that. But you go on and believe whatever you want.

Hawthorn launch 2050 vision

Hawthorn has unveiled its new strategic plan, labelling the number of premierships the club intends to win by 2050.

www.hawthornfc.com.au

 

[LMGjr]

What a lot of horseshit.

The club set the objective 3 years ago of 2 flags by 2022. Clarko was then tasked with finding a way to achieve that. But you go on and believe whatever you want.

Right now, with all the kids coming into the club, this bloke is our most important asset - imho.

 

[mickmaster]

Anyone thinking TOB gets another contract is delusional.
Yer kicks the occasional goal but does just enough to be a bottom 3 player.
The honeymoons over , youth will get his spot.

No other team will want to give anything for him as he has been around long enough to make the grade.

 

[H00t]

What a lot of horseshit.

The club set the objective 3 years ago of 2 flags by 2022. Clarko was then tasked with finding a way to achieve that. But you go on and believe whatever you want.

Hawthorn launch 2050 vision

Hawthorn has unveiled its new strategic plan, labelling the number of premierships the club intends to win by 2050.

www.hawthornfc.com.au

I’d find it strange if Clarko wasn’t apart of making that vision. And he would have the pull at the club to say “hold up, there’s a better way to go about this.”

 

[chopflop]

Anyone thinking TOB gets another contract is delusional.
Yer kicks the occasional goal but does just enough to be a bottom 3 player.
The honeymoons over , youth will get his spot.

No other team will want to give anything for him as he has been around long enough to make the grade.

I think he gets a year. Hartley will get the chop and TOb will be the new Hartley. Won't be on good money that's for sure

 

[LMGjr]

I’d find it strange if Clarko wasn’t apart of making that vision. And he would have the pull at the club to say “hold up, there’s a better way to go about this.”

It's called marketing mate - are you going to blame Clarko for the trouble we've had with the afl commission and the women's team when clearly we are a financial powerhouse ? I'm sure you can find a way to blame him, if you just put in a little more effort.

Sure a s**t looks like he pulled Wright up for the recruiting mess - thank whatever divinity you worship.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Anyone thinking TOB gets another contract is delusional.
Yer kicks the occasional goal but does just enough to be a bottom 3 player.
The honeymoons over , youth will get his spot.

No other team will want to give anything for him as he has been around long enough to make the grade.

I wouldn't give him one for the simple fact it gifts him life membership for 10 years service, how shambolic if he survives 10 years on your list.

 

[H00t]

It's called marketing mate - are you going to blame Clarko for the trouble we've had with the afl commission and the women's team when clearly we are a financial powerhouse ? I'm sure you can find a way to blame him, if you just put in a little more effort.

Sure a sh*t looks like he pulled Wright up for the recruiting mess - thank whatever divinity you worship.

I know it’s marketing nonsense. The person I responded to suggested the reason Clarko went all in for this 2 by 2022. It’s not why Clarko did what he did was all I said.

It’s on record here that wright wanted the draft and clarko didn’t. Can’t blame Wright for his drafting when he had no picks. I get it you love Clarko. I also love Clarko. Doesn’t mean I can’t question on here what he is thinking. And the direction that has and will be taken. Clarko would also have a big say in who they trade for.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I wouldn't give him one for the simple fact it gifts him life membership for 10 years service, how shambolic if he survives 10 years on your list.

So you’d rather we only had 0-10 game talls as depth, just so we didn’t dare give a player life membership who’d ran out onto the park and given his all for 10 years.

Your axe to grind is something else.

 

[mustang]

I think we would have seen enough at this point. He’s best 25 in a bottom 2 side, and he’s hanging on by a thread.

He’s a less composed, less defensive, less skilled version of Shiels.

We’ll have Newcombe, Finn, Pick 2 and most likely Pick 21 or 22 all pushing for midfield time time in 2022 & 2023. Would be very surprised if we offer another contract.

Also if we trade Mitchell for draft picks those players if midfielders also.

 

[Blackhawk42]

I'm one. He's dynamic in a way a lot of the other guys who play at BH aren't. A big question is his position. We seem to go with Breust, Wingard, Moore and one other dedicated small/medium forward. Rotating through Hanrahan, Morris and Brockman with Saunders also an option now. It's a lot of guys to compete with for that spot. Pepper combines a hard edge and competitiveness with speed and agility in a way those guys probably don't yet.

From the Box Hill games i've watched this season I haven't seen anything that suggests he's even close to an AFL debut. Would love for it to click for him, but he was moved forward recently and was still outperformed by all of Morris, Saunders and Brockman. Just don't see where he could possibly fit in.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Why Howe? Think he has been ok, has some grunt about him unlike most of our list, is versatile and best 22 this year.

This was done 4 weeks ago. Since then Howe has absolutely dominated a VFL game and had 2 solid AFL performances. Muddied the waters a tad on where exactly I see him going forward.

 

[chopflop]

Who is the next parish of the comp? Wrong position or bad coaching who could explode in their proper role. Sparkle narkle is another one doing it at the moment who was available last year. Ideas?

 

[Roger Rogerson]

At the half way point, it's pretty clear we're absolutely trash. Both in list quality and gameplan. Unfortunately gameplan won't change until Clarko is no longer the coach, but the list quality can be improved through playing as many young players as possible who are unknown at this point in time due to lack of exposure at AFL level.

We need to get a better idea of what the younger players can offer and if they're worth pursuing with. We can't get by on just culling the bare minimum and keeping players around on potential. That hasn't worked in a while. We need to work out who has shown enough to warrant keeping for if or when we're in contention again, who is worth keeping as depth in a good side, and who is depth in a bottom side aka a list clogger. Then we'll be able to know how many high(ish) draft picks we need focus on getting during trade week.

TOB has shown he's nothing more than a list clogger, as have Howe and Nash. They should only be given games when in dire need. Key word being 'should' because we all know TOB and Howe are first selected because Clarko prefers list clogging EXPERIENCE due to their ability of knowing the running patterns. Others like Cousins, Morrison and Lewis are flirting with their form and are going to want to show more if they want to continue at AFL level.

Newcombe isn't going to come in and suddenly make us better. He's a one-paced, one-position inside mid that we have a plethora of. Most have bought into the fairytale of a BHH making it at Hawthorn, however had he come from another club, I'm sure most on here would be scratching their heads asking why we got yet another slow inside mid. There's also the skill and speed difference between the VFL and AFL that most haven't factored in yet, either. Does he have the clean hands and vision to adapt to the far greater speed? A lot don't. For example, Howe is a great VFL player, better than Newcombe has shown at this point in time, yet when put into the AFL, he's a plodder who can't play inside, can't play outside, and can't play wing. Only really a defensive mid is where he's effective. Newcombe has time on his side, however.
We also haven't been great at developing talent for quite a while.

The MSD isn't where you go recruiting for stars and players for the future. It's where you can take a risk on a player and if there's no reward evident, then all you lose is 6 months of salary. If they turn out to be stars, then the risk has paid its rewards, but if Callow or Newcombe don't come on as expected is a no lose situation.

SLB I love reading your posts as there is without fail something good in there evey time.
Genuinely.

It's just hard to swallow your negative outlook which seems to be your default. We all hate where we are would be great to hear your sharp brain take us forward. Am glad to see you posting again.

 

[chopflop]

At the half way point, it's pretty clear we're absolutely trash. Both in list quality and gameplan. Unfortunately gameplan won't change until Clarko is no longer the coach, but the list quality can be improved through playing as many young players as possible who are unknown at this point in time due to lack of exposure at AFL level.

We need to get a better idea of what the younger players can offer and if they're worth pursuing with. We can't get by on just culling the bare minimum and keeping players around on potential. That hasn't worked in a while. We need to work out who has shown enough to warrant keeping for if or when we're in contention again, who is worth keeping as depth in a good side, and who is depth in a bottom side aka a list clogger. Then we'll be able to know how many high(ish) draft picks we need focus on getting during trade week.

TOB has shown he's nothing more than a list clogger, as have Howe and Nash. They should only be given games when in dire need. Key word being 'should' because we all know TOB and Howe are first selected because Clarko prefers list clogging EXPERIENCE due to their ability of knowing the running patterns. Others like Cousins, Morrison and Lewis are flirting with their form and are going to want to show more if they want to continue at AFL level.

Newcombe isn't going to come in and suddenly make us better. He's a one-paced, one-position inside mid that we have a plethora of. Most have bought into the fairytale of a BHH making it at Hawthorn, however had he come from another club, I'm sure most on here would be scratching their heads asking why we got yet another slow inside mid. There's also the skill and speed difference between the VFL and AFL that most haven't factored in yet, either. Does he have the clean hands and vision to adapt to the far greater speed? A lot don't. For example, Howe is a great VFL player, better than Newcombe has shown at this point in time, yet when put into the AFL, he's a plodder who can't play inside, can't play outside, and can't play wing. Only really a defensive mid is where he's effective. Newcombe has time on his side, however.
We also haven't been great at developing talent for quite a while.

The MSD isn't where you go recruiting for stars and players for the future. It's where you can take a risk on a player and if there's no reward evident, then all you lose is 6 months of salary. If they turn out to be stars, then the risk has paid its rewards, but if Callow or Newcombe don't come on as expected is a no lose situation.

Reckon newcombe might surprise in the long term. He isn't a typical msd pick. Similar to Edwards and moyle

 

[Rocket72]

Even a very solid player like Hardwick is borderline as a no 1 small defender as he battles with quick smalls and doesn’t offer any offensive run.

I've only seen Hardwick do a handful of things wrong this year. I must miss a lot?

 

[Rocket72]

What a lot of horseshit.

The club set the objective 3 years ago of 2 flags by 2022. Clarko was then tasked with finding a way to achieve that. But you go on and believe whatever you want.

Hawthorn launch 2050 vision

Hawthorn has unveiled its new strategic plan, labelling the number of premierships the club intends to win by 2050.

www.hawthornfc.com.au

Don't cloud the argument with facts.