Game Day Community Series vs Port Adelaide. RICHMOND OVAL. 3:40pm Saturday 5th March

[Southerntakeover]

So he's comparing them?

No dog in this argument but wtf am I missing here?

You're not missing it all.

The only point that could possibly been attempted by posting the stats was to suggest that they were equivalent. The reason he's avoiding saying it outright is because he knows its ridiculous. And this game of disingenuous cat and mouse was enough to draw support from the sorts of poster who obsess themselves with trying to set board standards, ironically enough.

"Hey, here's some statistics that make no point at all that I'm trying to advance. Really makes you think huh?"

 

[Bearded Clam]

Comparing them not as to who was the better player, nobody would be silly enough to say Keays is as good or better than Christian Petracca. The comparison was on 3 of football's more unflattering stats (turnovers, clangers and disposal efficiency) and on those stats Keays is absolutely no worse than Petracca or several others like Tim Taranto for example.

the problem being that in all the other stats (probably all the ones that really matter)… Petracca, taranto, danger, cripps etc etc are elite.

Ben Keays.. unfortunately.. not so much.

like I said in an earlier comment Mutineer.... thats the folly of using raw stats..

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

the problem being that in all the other stats (probably all the ones that really matter)… Petracca, taranto, danger, cripps etc etc are elite.

Ben Keays.. unfortunately.. not so much.

like I said in an earlier comment Mutineer.... thats the folly of using raw stats..

What stats are those?

 

[Maddogmetro]

Where is this quote from Mutineer ?

I haven't seen him say this, so I suspect you are once again misrepresenting posters on this board.

You should show a quote when making a claim.

He never mentioned this is when comparing stats.

Literally all he did was post their stats and said they were similar. Apparently objective facts are now something to criticise someone about.

 

[Mego Red]

So he's comparing them?

No dog in this argument but wtf am I missing here?

Comparing stats. Not saying Keays is better. Just saying that, as a supposed "garbage" player, his STATS compare pretty well with probably the best player in the league.

 

[Carmo]

At least its become clear who the successor to Mackay for chief whipping boy is. One off-season objective completed.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Comparing stats. Not saying Keays is better. Just saying that, as a supposed "garbage" player, his STATS compare pretty well with probably the best player in the league.

And you ask people to draw no inferences from that? Your view is that the statistics offer no insight? So why rely on the statistics?

Your last sentence is the point. It was an attempt to compare Keays favourably with someone who he doesnt belong in the same sentence with.

 

[Southerntakeover]

At least its become clear who the successor to Mackay for chief whipping boy is. One off-season objective completed.

Ehh, I don't think most posters feel that strongly about him. I do think our midfield sucks.

It would just be nice if people could defend a battler without absurdly comparing him to the leagues elite.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

At least its become clear who the successor to Mackay for chief whipping boy is. One off-season objective completed.

Don't recall McKay getting anywhere near runner up in our B&F... so it's a strange target.

 

[1970crow]

Don't recall McKay getting anywhere near runner up in our B&F... so it's a strange target.

How is it strange? We know our midfield is our weak link and it’s poor ball use that is the reason. Keays is easily the worst kick in our midfield. And if we’re going to improve in that area it’s going to be at the expense of existing mids. It’s pretty obvious that he’d be the target.

 

[Slippery Pete]

Wow..
Can some random sookie lah lah please ban me again until atleast round 5.
Some posters think they own these forums to the point it's embarrassing how often they post..
Go play marbles or something.

Can I recommend the politics thread

 

[Bearded Clam]

At least its become clear who the successor to Mackay for chief whipping boy is. One off-season objective completed.

nah, I see Keays as great depth.. and I think he’d be a great leader for our youth in the SANFL as he’d really help set the standard required as far as effort goes.

just dont want all four of him, sloane, laird and crouch in the same team.. too similar, they take all the midfield/CB minutes and are the reason our midfield has been one of the leagues worst in the past two years.

the laird/sloane/keays/crouch combo has to be split up. if there was no sloane or laird, or no laird and crouch.. id be alright with keays staying.

my chief whipping boy is none other than L. Murphy… another “gives 100%” guy and has a cool story on how he made it onto an AFL list… But who, unfortunately IMO, just doesn't cut it at AFL level. which is a shame because I’d really love to see him succeed. 52 games for 48 golas from a half forward who just goes missing far too often isnt good enough i’m afraid.

hopefully with rachele there now and Sloane getting more half forward minutes.. the need for Murphy has now passed.

 

[baldandbroke]

Mutineer was using stats to show that the flaws people were using to bad mouth Keayes were based around the wrong stats.

It’s the same leap people made when it was pointed out that Fogarty was as accurate as Lockett.

Anyone expecting Keayes to be playing SANFL has a twisted view of what makes an AFL player. Nicks loves Ben, Ben has thrived under Nicks. If you believe the Adelaide Crows are gonna stagnate because Ben is in its best 22 … I think you are barking up the wrong tree.

 

[1970crow]

nah, I see Keays as great depth.. and I think he’d be a great leader for our youth in the SANFL as he’d really help set the standard required as far as effort goes.

just dont want all four of him, sloane, laird and crouch in the same team.. too similar, they take all the midfield/CB minutes and are the reason our midfield has been one of the leagues worst in the past two years.

the laird/sloane/keays/crouch combo has to be split up. if there was no sloane or laird, or no laird and crouch.. id be alright with keays staying.

my chief whipping boy is none other than L. Murphy… another “gives 100%” guy and has a cool story on how he made it onto an AFL list… But who, unfortunately IMO, just doesn't cut it at AFL level. which is a shame because I’d really love to see him succeed. 52 games for 48 golas from a half forward who just goes missing far too often isnt good enough i’m afraid.

hopefully with rachele there now and Sloane getting more half forward minutes.. the need for Murphy has now passed.

I’m not totally giving up on Keays. He’s got very good attributes and if he can use the time he creates for himself to steady and improve his execution then he’ll be a handy mid/HFF.

Murphy I prefer up around the contest. If he got a few midfield minutes here and there combined with being hit up when leading in our 50, he could easily become a handy 15-20 touch, 1 goal/game half forward.

But fact is that when you finish last then 4th last there’s going to be numerous players that need to be improved upon. Internal growth isn’t going to make up that much ground.

 

[Mutineer]

I didn’t misrepresent his views. And you should know that, being one of the most dishonest posters on this board.

LOL
You absolutely did and you know it.
You're becoming increasingly warped the last year or so. You've gone from being one of the better posters on the board for years to someone that just seems to want to rub people up the wrong way nowadays

 

[baldandbroke]

Bicks uses stats when it suits his argument and then scoffs at people that use them to counter anything he posts. He’s equally as versatile when it comes to using the opinions of ex recruiters.

That sounds like you are playing the man not the ball?

Clangers and disposal efficiency are terrible indicators of quality when it comes to midfielders.

On Keays, if our midfield needs to improve, then there’s going to be casualties. I guess you’re saying you think Keays is one of the last 2 go, whereas I see him as the first. Or second due to Sloane’s age. There’s a lot to like about him, but we lack class and quality kicks from our current 4 senior mids. How do you see improvement without existing mids making way? Or do you think the current 4 plus Shoey can get the job done against the top midfields?

On the midfield … you need more than 4 rotating through there. No good relying on the same group for a whole season, hell even a whole quarter!

We have some great young prospects like Shoey, Berry and Pedlar.

Sloane, Crouch, Laird, Dawson and Keays make up the core of our current mids.

I expect some more options to arise from the ranks throughout the year.

Sloane (turning 32) will play more forward minutes this year as he progresses out of the midfield.

Crouch (turning 27) is going nowhere but the midfield.

Laird (just turned 28) has been our best midfielder.

Dawson (turning 25) will be our best midfielder.

Keays (just turned 25) is probably going to be the workhorse in the rotations for a few years to come. He is the prime candidate to be pushed out, but not anytime soon.

That doesn’t make him shite.

 

[footy4ever]

So you’d unequivocally trade Keays out for Petracca?

START THE CAR!!

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

LOL
You absolutely did and you know it.
You're becoming increasingly warped the last year or so. You've gone from being one of the better posters on the board for years to someone that just seems to want to rub people up the wrong way nowadays

This is the sad thing as he used to be a decent poster, but has gone off the rails.

More intent causing s**t fights than discussing issues like he used to.

We have had plenty of disagreements too, but we don't feel the need to deliberately misrepresent the other... rather just move on & respect won't agree on an issue.

 

[Bearded Clam]

That sounds like you are playing the man not the ball?

Clangers and disposal efficiency are terrible indicators of quality when it comes to midfielders.


On the midfield … you need more than 4 rotating through there. No good relying on the same group for a whole season, hell even a whole quarter!

We have some great young prospects like Shoey, Berry and Pedlar.

Sloane, Crouch, Laird, Dawson and Keays make up the core of our current mids.

I expect some more options to arise from the ranks throughout the year.

Sloane (turning 32) will play more forward minutes this year as he progresses out of the midfield.

Crouch (turning 27) is going nowhere but the midfield.

Laird (just turned 28) has been our best midfielder.

Dawson (turning 25) will be our best midfielder.

Keays (just turned 25) is probably going to be the workhorse in the rotations for a few years to come. He is the prime candidate to be pushed out, but not anytime soon.

That doesn’t make him sh*te.

View attachment IMG_7671.MOV

You say Laird is our best midfielder… and he maybe.. but he’s a long way from being an elite midfielder.

He panic kicks far too much.. never looks, just grab ball jam on boot.. as long as it goes forward, he gets his stats for touches and inside 50’s.. job done right?..

What happens downfield and how his team mates in the forward line deal with his s**t is on them right?

This short clip (if it has worked) from the CB to start the last quarter in the trial the other week is the perfect example of Rory Laird as midfielder!..

Read the bounce and the tap well, first to the ball, no immediate pressure on him.. and what does he do?.. grabs it and jams it on the boot without even looking..

The result?.. it lands on the chest of a lions player and rory’s team mate Mcadam had no chance.

Yet some here are crazy enough to think that mcadam didnt do enough!.. or mcadam obviously didnt lead..

How are you meant to position yourself as a forward when you have absolutely no clue what to expect feom your midfielders because they barely ever lower their eyes and more often than not just jam it on the boot without even bothering with the potential outcome?..

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

View attachment 1343876

You say Laird is our best midfielder… and he maybe.. but he’s a long way from being an elite midfielder.

He panic kicks far too much.. never looks, just grab ball jam on boot.. as long as it goes forward, he gets his stats for touches and inside 50’s.. job done right?..

What happens downfield and how his team mates in the forward line deal with his sh*t is on them right?

This short clip (if it has worked) from the CB to start the last quarter in the trial the other week is the perfect example of Rory Laird as midfielder!..

Read the bounce and the tap well, first to the ball, no immediate pressure on him.. and what does he do?.. grabs it and jams it on the boot without even looking..

The result?.. it lands on the chest of a lions player and rory’s team mate Mcadam had no chance.

Yet some here are crazy enough to think that mcadam didnt do enough!.. or mcadam obviously didnt lead..

How are you meant to position yourself as a forward when you have absolutely no clue what to expect feom your midfielders because they barely ever lower their eyes and more often than not just jam it on the boot without even bothering with the potential outcome?..

There is no doubt most of our inside midfielders could do with lifting their eyes more, but Laird is very good at finding the ball & for now is our best inside midfielder (though imo Schoenberg likely to be by season's end).

What we need is the ball fed out more to our outside players - Dawson, Seedsman, Smith, Milera, Sholl & Jones... so we improve the quality of our ball use.

Problem for round 1 is we will be missing too many quality outside players.

 

[morris086]

View attachment 1343876

You say Laird is our best midfielder… and he maybe.. but he’s a long way from being an elite midfielder.

He panic kicks far too much.. never looks, just grab ball jam on boot.. as long as it goes forward, he gets his stats for touches and inside 50’s.. job done right?..

What happens downfield and how his team mates in the forward line deal with his sh*t is on them right?

This short clip (if it has worked) from the CB to start the last quarter in the trial the other week is the perfect example of Rory Laird as midfielder!..

Read the bounce and the tap well, first to the ball, no immediate pressure on him.. and what does he do?.. grabs it and jams it on the boot without even looking..

The result?.. it lands on the chest of a lions player and rory’s team mate Mcadam had no chance.

Yet some here are crazy enough to think that mcadam didnt do enough!.. or mcadam obviously didnt lead..

How are you meant to position yourself as a forward when you have absolutely no clue what to expect feom your midfielders because they barely ever lower their eyes and more often than not just jam it on the boot without even bothering with the potential outcome?..

This has been an issue since Thommo led our midfield, the clearance and blind kick. Is this not a coaching issue?

 

[Bearded Clam]

There is no doubt most of our inside midfielders could do with lifting their eyes more, but Laird is very good at finding the ball & for now is our best inside midfielder (though imo Schoenberg likely to be by season's end).

What we need is the ball fed out more to our outside players - Dawson, Seedsman, Smith, Milera, Sholl & Jones... so we improve the quality of our ball use.

Problem for round 1 is we will be missing too many quality outside players.

I share your hopes with Shoey and him quickly becoming our best mid.. and also for guys like Dawson, milera, jones etc stepping up… but for that to happen the Slaone/Laird/Keays/mcrouch combo needs to get far less than 80% of the CB/Midfield minutes and the other guys given a shitload more..

Is that going to happen?.. all signs from the past two years and the 2 trial matches point to a big fat NO and its gonna be business as usual.

And on that video I’ve posted above.. you are right.. Laird does so much right.. in that instance he read the drop of the ball, lost his opponent, was first to it and took it with one grab.. but then completely ****ed up everything from that point..

He didnt have the spacial awareness to realise the 3 lions mids were not coming at him and that the lions player that comes from left of screen wasnt even chasing him and was more concerned with chasing his direct crows opponent.. but then again.. did he even care to know?.. or did all he care about was stat padding?.. get the stat for the touch, the clearance and inside 50.. thats job done!.

Laird had enough time to take three more steps, lower the eyes and see that he couldve instead kicked the pill to the advantage of mcadam and rachele and not kick it completely off balanced and to the advantage of their lions opponents.

If i was retired and didnt have two kids under 10 I reacon I could trawl through the last two years of crows game replays and find literally dozens and dozens of examples of laird, and Keays, doing exactly what laird did in that video above and post them up here. Its just poor football and the reason our midfield is the least damaging in the league.

I’m hoping with another year of midfield experience, and with some further coaching, Laird starts to recognise that he often has more time than he realises and uses it and ball more effficiently..

 

[Bearded Clam]

This has been an issue since Thommo led our midfield, the clearance and blind kick. Is this not a coaching issue?

Possibly… or is it just the way these guys have always played the game and they’ll never change?..

 

[Southerntakeover]

You're becoming increasingly warped the last year or so. You've gone from being one of the better posters on the board for years to someone that just seems to want to rub people up the wrong way nowadays

It's almost like you're just basing whether people are good posters or not on whether they agree with you.

 

[Ciao Giacomo]

Still won't show me the quote... funny that because you know he never said it.

This common practice of yours to misrepresent what other posters have said is the lowest form of posting on this board.

Don't bother replying unless you can show these words you claimed.

I have been waiting more than two years for the Moon Howler to provide the “quote” that supported his claim that the auditors of the AFC accounts said our financial position was an “ongoing concern”.

What they did state was “the AFC is an ongoing concern” = we still exist.

Sadly, making up s**t and restating it numerous times means it must be true in the mind of the Bored Member from Port Macdonnell.