Free Agency Jade Gresham [Joins Essendon as RFA]

[Snuffaluphagus]

It needs to be, s**t clubs losing good players will just set them back even further

100%, it's all well and good for a successful big Vic club to say remove compensation, they dont lose their big players and/or have the pull to bring a FA in for them. The GC's and sadly Freo's of the world would end up getting completely ****ed. We arent getting big name FAs. The solution isnt to remove the compensation its to put more than 1 minute of thought into how it's awarded,

 

[Ash1337]

Reckon your figures are out. Wasn't $750k what Daniher got, or does this get indexed?

It was like 900k a year for 3yrs then they redrew the contract for 5yrs on less per year. Williams also was 900k a year. Both band 1 compo. It was told Daniher only just made band 1 at the time.

 

[Orange Agent]

This is interesting. Essendon wants more early picks, Gresham is basically a pawn, if he turns out to be a handy player it's a bonus. Saints have always had a thing for Shiel, maybe it's Ross. Feel like Saints need sweeteners, whether it's salary or picks depends on their cap position or whatever else they have lined up. Amazing its being accepted after the blow up over Joe Daniher.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

If we assume that Shiel is negative or zero value and pick 32 (band 3) for an uncontracted Gresham is probably fair, is the potential benefit to both clubs that they are in effect, buying a higher pick from each other.

Essendon way overpay for band 1 - pick 13?
St Kilda way over pay for Shiel with pick 31?

St Kilda "theoretically" are trading pick 31 and Gresham for 13 - big win
Essendon are "theoretically" paying 200k extra to Gresham to buy 31 because they dont want Shiel. - big win?

I can almost see how it would make sense for Essendon but still think St Kilda would be considerably bigger winners

 

[Bjchan13]

If we assume that Shiel is negative or zero value and pick 32 (band 3) for an uncontracted Gresham is probably fair, is the potential benefit to both clubs that they are in effect, buying a higher pick from each other.

Essendon way overpay for band 1 - pick 13?
St Kilda way over pay for Shiel with pick 31?

St Kilda "theoretically" are trading pick 31 and Gresham for 13 - big win
Essendon are "theoretically" using capspace to buy pick 31 - win?

Still think Essendon dont really win much unless they really just dont like Shield but I can almost see how it's a good thing for them...

No, if we had cap issues Shiel would be zero value. But we dont and he's still best 22 when fit. If Shiel asked for a trade, keeping it seperate from anything to do with Gresham, i think we'd reluctantly let him go for a pick in the 25-30 range. Would be better than keeping a player that didnt want to be there. But id say our 1st choice is to keep him.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

No, if we had cap issues Shiel would be zero value. But we dont and he's still best 22 when fit. If Shiel asked for a trade, keeping it seperate from anything to do with Gresham, i think we'd reluctantly let him go for a pick in the 25-30 range. Would be better than keeping a player that didnt want to be there. But id say our 1st choice is to keep him.

Yeah it falls apart if Shiel is valued at anything above 0, just trying to come up with an idea of why the whole thing makes any sense. If there's anything behind it apart from Ralph hot air and it goes anywhere, we say Dodoro and Rosa see Shiel as a negative

 

[L_W_P]

You wouldnt be looking at him if hes cooked

Hes better than Higgins was at 32 and he went for pick 30

27 + 27 isnt a mile off 13 and you could be better off salary wise aswell if we help

Saints aren't looking at Shiel

They are looking at Shiel's contract.

With the new CBA I rekon the Bombers pay enough for Band 2, the Saints get an end of 1st round pick, and Shiel stays anyway.

 

[FrogDude]

Unless Shiel is getting pushed out, this trade idea currently makes no sesne for either club.
In every version of the trade, there is always a clear winner and loser which barely happens for big trades like these.

 

[Bjchan13]

Yeah it falls apart if Shiel is valued at anything above 0, just trying to come up with idea of why the whole thing makes any sense. If there's anything behind it apart from Ralph hot air and it goes anywhere, we say Dodoro and Rosa see Shiel as a negative

Even if hypothetically we valued Shiel at zero it still makes no sense as we'd just give him away. No need to overpay Gresham and gift them a 1st round draft pick in the process.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Would love the Blues to pick him up and try and get him back to his best at HFF. Clearly our weakest area of the ground.

Fits the age profile, fills a need, no trade required, value at its lowest for some time could be a bargain.

Suspect he heads to a club with more cap space.

 

[Lore]

It has been well reported that Essendon already have a sh*t load of cap space and are one of the few clubs who don't have CBA linked pay rises written into their existing contracts so have even more money to work with moving forward.

Apparently Vozzo doesn't like those sort of clauses either, so we're not likely to start agreeing to them in the near future.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Even if hypothetically we valued Shiel at zero it still makes no sense as we'd just give him away. No need to overpay Gresham and gift them a 1st round draft pick in the process.

The point would be to get pick 31 in the trade I suggested, 31 is worth a lot more than nothing. Basically buying pick 31

 

[Bjchan13]

The point would be to get pick 31 in the trade I suggested, 31 is worth a lot more than nothing. Basically buying pick 31

Would you overpay for a player by 300k a year and gift an opposition club pick 13 in exchange for pick 31?

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Would you overpay for a player by 300k a year and gift an opposition club pick 13 in exchange for pick 31?

I think the pick 13 is irrelevant and the 300k would depend on the capspace. You guys keep saying you almost struggle to hit the floor at the moment. Not the worst thing

 

[Bjchan13]

I think the pick 13 is irrelevant and the 300k would depend on the capspace. You guys keep saying you almost struggle to hit the floor at the moment. Not the worst thing

How is gifting an opposition club a 1st round draft pick irrelevant?

 

[Bjchan13]

I think the pick 13 is irrelevant and the 300k would depend on the capspace. You guys keep saying you almost struggle to hit the floor at the moment. Not the worst thing

Also as illogical as this scenario would be, it also hinges on the fact that we have cap issues and are trying to ship Shiel off, which is not the case.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

How is gifting an opposition club a 1st round draft pick irrelevant?

How is it relevant? You dont make choices on whether another club benefits, only how it impacts your club.

 

[Bjchan13]

How is it relevant? You dont make choices on whether another club benefits, only how it impacts your club.

Its a competition though. Youre giving a rival an advantage you dont need to give them.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Its a competition though. Youre giving a rival an advantage you dont need to give them.

Meh, if clubs really cared about that they'd bid on players at appropriate spots rather than most of them seemingly going later than they should.

Also as illogical as this scenario would be, it also hinges on the fact that we have cap issues and are trying to ship Shiel off, which is not the case.

I dont think you'd need cap issues to ship him off but just seeing an opportunity to buy a pick.

Again, I dont think there's huge benefit to Essendon, just trying to understand why/if there would be anything behind it. Seems a weird thing for Ralph to basically make up.

 

[Keystone agony]

Saints aren't looking at Shiel

They are looking at Shiel's contract.

With the new CBA I rekon the Bombers pay enough for Band 2, the Saints get an end of 1st round pick, and Shiel stays anyway.

How can they look at his contract and not him?

That would be the most likely scenario

But 27+ 27 + Shiel is better than 19

 

[Bjchan13]

Meh, if clubs really cared about that they'd bit on players at appropriate spots rather than most of them seemingly going later than they should.

I dont think you'd need cap issues to ship him off but just seeing an opportunity to buy a pick.

Again, I dont think there's huge benefit to Essendon, just trying to understand why/if there would be anything behind it. Seems a weird thing for Ralph to basically make up.

The bolded could make sense for Essendon, if it was pick 13 we were buying.

 

[Duckworth]

How is it relevant? You dont make choices on whether another club benefits, only how it impacts your club.

Gifting another pick shifts all future picks backwards a spot. Not much maybe, but it is a negative impact.

 

[Caligo]

Pay up for Band 1

Thats roughly a better 20-22 pick value worth for the Saints

They then owe that back to Essendon for Shiel in a trade, dons can help with a bit of his salary if needed

Out: Gresham
In: Shiel, Pick 27, F2

Out: Shiel, 27, F2
In: Gresham, 13

Adelaide attempted a version of this with crouch and Dunstan. Banned by the AFL.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Gifting another pick shifts all future picks backwards a spot. Not much maybe, but it is a negative impact.

I'm going to assume at this point it's band 2 (yes, I agree that seems over but RFA does nutty things ie McKay). So it wouldnt impact Essendon

 

[Bjchan13]

Pay up for Band 1

Thats roughly a better 20-22 pick value worth for the Saints

They then owe that back to Essendon for Shiel in a trade, dons can help with a bit of his salary if needed

Out: Gresham
In: Shiel, Pick 27, F2

Out: Shiel, 27, F2
In: Gresham, 13

We are getting two second rounders along with Shiel in that deal.

You are spot on Shiel is worthless, but getting 2 second round picks for Gresham is a win.

Snuffaluphagus