Autopsy 14 point win vs Essendon

[SwansProudly]

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

I think he is finding out a lot about this group lol

Not like he was flown in from the moon.

 

[kickthething]

Not like he was flown in from the moon.

This. My concern is he has been with this group for quite some time and does not seem to know what makes them tick. If he was from outside the club there would be a little more leeway, he got the job delivered to him on a plate as the hierarchy believed his appointment would be the most impactful for the club. I think the handover was a flawed process and we are paying the price.

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

I love Rowie from the effort he puts in, but if that is the best 'change up' we can find for him, then we should be trading him to somewhere that can get the best out of him. I still find it astounding how what got him up the draft in his draft year (being a much more balanced midfielder - tough but with a genuine attacking edge) has been willed out of him completely at the swans. Looks bereft of confidence, and sticking him up forward is not going to help.

Still think he can play a good role in a well balanced midfield, but not sure how he fits into the puzzle at this point in time.

It feels a bit like George Hewett again, doesn’t it?

My question about both is: have the coaches been applying hard nosed judgement around the players’ limitations or are the coaches artificially limiting them?

With Hewett, I thought it may be the former, until he got a ball-winning role through injuries but couldn’t match the output of Kennedy, etc. Now one could still argue Hewett had it trained out of him before that point, that’s a tougher one to answer.

Regardless, I would be much happier if we had each player in the mids having greater balance between defence and offence. I don’t know enough about midfield strategy but we do seem to have a lot of midfielders that appear to be one tracked.

 

[tombomb]

imo the second half of the year has been worse than the first half.

This feels different to previous years where we have missed the finals. I don't think it is just going to fix itself with a longer preseason and healthier list.

 

[The King!]

If I were being negative i'd say this team (without naming names) basically decided finals are going and the real hard effort became negotiable. It was just Essendon , it was meaningless etc.

That would be fine expect even when we are flying we have patches where effort is negotiable .

Grand final day we barely give a whimper and it doesn't define us.

By effort I mean the little things , hard chasing when it's probably lost, extra tackles, head over the ball etc etc.

This team is defined by negotiable effort with the little things and patches of going to sleep and trying to be super fancy.

it was all on show again and it has become a habit imo

 

[melbournehammer]

imo the second half of the year has been worse than the first half.

This feels different to previous years where we have missed the finals. I don't think it is just going to fix itself with a longer preseason and healthier list.

In 2020 I said to my kids I thought this team was going to be really good and would make a grand final in about 2024.

I am much much more pessimistic now. I eel like our tall players are just fundamentally average. And I’m no longer convinced that the Small ones aren’t massively improving.

The team still has potential but after the season of few injuries and numerous victories and confidence led to the Brisbane massacre it’s hard to believe they can get past it.

I know I haven’t been able to so god knows how they could.

The truth is our performances in the back half of the season have showed our position is absolutely right. We haven’t put north or Essendon or st kilda to the sword unlike the real contenders. When gws put their foot down we couldn’t go with them.

 

[The King!]

In 2020 I said to my kids I thought this team was going to be really good and would make a grand final in about 2024.

I am much much more pessimistic now. I eel like our tall players are just fundamentally average. And I’m no longer convinced that the Small ones aren’t massively improving.

The team still has potential but after the season of few injuries and numerous victories and confidence led to the Brisbane massacre it’s hard to believe they can get past it.

I know I haven’t been able to so god knows how they could.

The truth is our performances in the back half of the season have showed our position is absolutely right. We haven’t put north or Essendon or st kilda to the sword unlike the real contenders. When gws put their foot down we couldn’t go with them.

I agree but I think 2020 was after a few years of transition .

The other thing is judging the talls this year is hard . Mclean has been disappointing yes.

But Mcdonald hasn't even played and Amartey has played 8 games.
Maybe they are all iffy but we haven't really seen them to judge. We have seen other teams bounce back after a down year post grand final loss, so who knows.

We need to make some tough calls imo

 

[SeanM]

I feel that we are a side that relies on our best players firing.

Just having Gulden available has improved ball movement and attacking 50 entries. Having at least one tall forward who can take a mark and create a contest has been important. Grundy and Heeney having good games determines whether we will get beaten in the midfield.

 

[ashep]

By effort I mean the little things , hard chasing when it's probably lost, extra tackles, head over the ball etc etc

But that's the thing, I saw plenty of that. Outstanding chases from Campbell, Blakey and Papley, smothers from Warner and Heeney, JMac and Sheldrick putting their head over it, Buller and Rampe competing in the air, Mills and Errol running hard to give teammates and option, Grundy getting up for the contest again and again.

The team has fallen short of expectations, no doubt, but the commentary that they don't give a shit or have put the cue in the rack isn't warranted.

 

[Kiama Chris]

If they are as good as they think they are - and I don’t think they are but there’s a few in that team who think that they’re pretty effing special - they’ll be able to set themselves against Geelong and brisbane

And if they’re not that good it’ll be pretty valuable as a lesson in where they’re at

I think they've already learnt the lesson and it haunts them instead of motivating them.

 

[The King!]

But that's the thing, I saw plenty of that. Outstanding chases from Campbell, Blakey and Papley, smothers from Warner and Heeney, JMac and Sheldrick putting their head over it, Buller and Rampe competing in the air, Mills and Errol running hard to give teammates and option, Grundy getting up for the contest again and again.

The team has fallen short of expectations, no doubt, but the commentary that they don't give a shit or have put the cue in the rack isn't warranted.

They aren't sitting there smoking in the corner but the little things are optional. Yeah i saw similar to you, but I also saw Warner stop dead to the point the callers were like WTF, Papley not even bother to bend over, no one of the farkn goal line , Heeney do a dinky pointless pass , I don't even want to blast individuals , but I disagree that the little efforts that matter are still there consistently. They do just enough at times imo .

Plus and I love you for it, you would see the absolute best in them no matter what

I also don't think the future is ruined etc though. Need a mental refresh. End of the day even the coach was questioning the effort.

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

This. My concern is he has been with this group for quite some time and does not seem to know what makes them tick. If he was from outside the club there would be a little more leeway, he got the job delivered to him on a plate as the hierarchy believed his appointment would be the most impactful for the club. I think the handover was a flawed process and we are paying the price.

Don’t disagree.

It’s a big switch to go from an assistant for Horse - where Horse demanded player performance and Cox could focus on relationships - to needing to drive motivation.

I also get the impression Cox may be a bit like Buckley (not great I know), in that he had so much self motivation as a player he may struggle to empathise with players who need a little bit extra.

One final thought, maybe Cox was using his presser to light a fire under the playing group? He may have been shining a light on them not getting up sufficiently and putting the ball in their court.

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

I think it also doesn’t hurt to put the game into perspective. There have been several games under Longmire and Roos where the swans have played down to their opposition and done just enough to win comfortably.

Given injuries, the weather and the loss of finals chances, I don’t think the game is a major cause for concern.

It’s good that a few players had new opportunities (Datolli, Rowy), 2-3 had one of their best games of the year, and the coach lit a fire under others who should have put in more effort - he didn’t walk past it.

Let’s see the response next week.

 

[Nuggetz]

Some of our transition running back to defence was woeful. Players jogging back. You could tell some of them were going through the motions for parts of the game.

 

[Nuggetz]

Campbell repeat efforts to apply pressure & tackle by running past multiple swans players was awesome & concerning. He's done it a few times this season & shown up our more reputed stars with his efforts. Ditto rowbottom pressure & tackling was great this game too, especially in the front half.

 

[kickthething]

I think it also doesn’t hurt to put the game into perspective. There have been several games under Longmire and Roos where the swans have played down to their opposition and done just enough to win comfortably.

Given injuries, the weather and the loss of finals chances, I don’t think the game is a major cause for concern.

It’s good that a few players had new opportunities (Datolli, Rowy), 2-3 had one of their best games of the year, and the coach lit a fire under others who should have put in more effort - he didn’t walk past it.

Let’s see the response next week.

That’s true, those games under Horse and Roos were considered outliers and the team bounced back from those, the difference this season is these performances are not outliers.

 

[The King!]

Jordon Gulden and Campbell running stood out imo.

I think Heeney has had way better games but i hate did stand out for him was how clean he is compared to others in the conditions

 

[The King!]

Maybe I just mark him low or it's the tattoos but I just like Peter Ladhams

19

Peter Ladhams

Age

27

Ht

204cm

Wt

103kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.7

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

8.8

5star

M

2.0

2star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.3

3star

D

21.0

5star

K

9.0

4star

HB

12.0

5star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.0

3star

G

0.0

1star

D

14.6

4star

K

6.4

3star

HB

8.2

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.4

3star

for his effort. I think in another world with an extended run in seniors he is a good first ruck. Grundy is clearly way better but still.

I hope he stays and I wouldn't be against seeing him play more often than not if we can manage the two of them. Need to be more dangerous up forward I guess

 

[wolftone57]

There is a video on You Tube;

Sydney Swans v Essendon Highlights

Now they are lying

What highlights?

 

[Dubai Quacker]

Maybe I just mark him low or it's the tattoos but I just like Peter Ladhams for his effort. I think in another world with an extended run in seniors he is a good first ruck. Grundy is clearly way better but still.

I hope he stays and I wouldn't be against seeing him play more often than not if we can manage the two of them. Need to be more dangerous up forward I guess

I just don’t recall Ladhams ever really having a high-impact game at AFL level.

Maybe I’ve forgotten some.

 

[Jack2Jack]

Sometimes things can be overcomplicated, there's a reality that bar a select handful most our players are having their (or close to their) career worst years. This is a big a factor as anything. There's a lot who have proven to be much better than this and are at an age where, barring injury, will bounce back no doubt at all......
.....but yeah still obviously some work to do in the offseason, no question. You can't stand still in this game, we stood still in 22 offseason and fell down the ladder, we were aggressive 23 offseason and no surprise, we came back. Standing still again last offseason was where the first big mistake was made.

Most years you wouldn't be mathematically ruled out of a finals spot with 10-10 record either (not that I think we'll get the 13 wins anyway). Another variable in the down spiral, comp's usually not this split in half and likely won't be for a while. This seems an outlier season like 2016 where 7th had 15 wins that comes around even once in a while, 15 wins usually gives you a chance of top 4, this year it might scrape you into a 6-8th spot.

There's no given we improve next year, but at the same time there's been enough variables not in our favour to suggest there's no reason we can't either. Biggest change needed should be getting some actual decent support around Cox. We didn't give our coach the best chance to succeed either leaving him so badly understaffed in his first year.

 

[The King!]

I just don’t recall Ladhams ever really having a high-impact game at AFL level.

Maybe I’ve forgotten some.

Probably none but he can play imo

 

[sr20]

I get a bit angry watching the footy and probably knee jerk drop 4-5 players each week, so I try and hold off and reflect before putting anything down.

Grundy was great again,BOG in my opinion and I’m his biggest fan. Another pre season of working with these midfielders and getting them running to the right place for his hitouts to advantage around the ground will be beneficial. It could be a little bit down to us having one less at the stoppage because we play one behind the ball. But a bit of it they all just seem to be on different pages.

Been mentioned already, I’ve noticed it a lot since the qualifying final last season. Campbells pace as he hits the contest is great. Now he just needs to actually become a bit more selfish and back in his skills, because I think his upside his huge. Never guna be a 20 disposal average player, but he is going to be a high impact 15-18 disposal player that hits the scoreboard.

Was the perfect type of game for Blakey, not getting stuck on a tall, or taken deep. I think this back 7 works well together. Hamling was coming into good form, and could be important for us in the next couple of seasons if Rampe does retire and Snell continues to develop to free Blakey up.

So stoked for Buller. Hope he gets re-signed soon.

I was so disappointed in Warner yesterday. He’s not injured, he’s not got the contract on his mind anymore. I don’t know if he’s just the most arrogant player in the AFL or if he just doesn’t care.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

I get a bit angry watching the footy and probably knee jerk drop 4-5 players each week, so I try and hold off and reflect before putting anything down.

Grundy was great again,BOG in my opinion and I’m his biggest fan. Another pre season of working with these midfielders and getting them running to the right place for his hitouts to advantage around the ground will be beneficial. It could be a little bit down to us having one less at the stoppage because we play one behind the ball. But a bit of it they all just seem to be on different pages.

Been mentioned already, I’ve noticed it a lot since the qualifying final last season. Campbells pace as he hits the contest is great. Now he just needs to actually become a bit more selfish and back in his skills, because I think his upside his huge. Never guna be a 20 disposal average player, but he is going to be a high impact 15-18 disposal player that hits the scoreboard.

Was the perfect type of game for Blakey, not getting stuck on a tall, or taken deep. I think this back 7 works well together. Hamling was coming into good form, and could be important for us in the next couple of seasons if Rampe does retire and Snell continues to develop to free Blakey up.

So stoked for Buller. Hope he gets re-signed soon.

I was so disappointed in Warner yesterday. He’s not injured, he’s not got the contract on his mind anymore. I don’t know if he’s just the most arrogant player in the AFL or if he just doesn’t care.

Grundy deserves a extension based sorely on what he has done the past 2 months.

Warner just checked out imo wouldnt worry about it.

 

[catchem02]

I get a bit angry watching the footy and probably knee jerk drop 4-5 players each week, so I try and hold off and reflect before putting anything down.

Grundy was great again,BOG in my opinion and I’m his biggest fan. Another pre season of working with these midfielders and getting them running to the right place for his hitouts to advantage around the ground will be beneficial. It could be a little bit down to us having one less at the stoppage because we play one behind the ball. But a bit of it they all just seem to be on different pages.

Been mentioned already, I’ve noticed it a lot since the qualifying final last season. Campbells pace as he hits the contest is great. Now he just needs to actually become a bit more selfish and back in his skills, because I think his upside his huge. Never guna be a 20 disposal average player, but he is going to be a high impact 15-18 disposal player that hits the scoreboard.

Was the perfect type of game for Blakey, not getting stuck on a tall, or taken deep. I think this back 7 works well together. Hamling was coming into good form, and could be important for us in the next couple of seasons if Rampe does retire and Snell continues to develop to free Blakey up.

So stoked for Buller. Hope he gets re-signed soon.

I was so disappointed in Warner yesterday. He’s not injured, he’s not got the contract on his mind anymore. I don’t know if he’s just the most arrogant player in the AFL or if he just doesn’t care.

You hit the nail on the head with Warner he hates defence and doesn’t want to do the hard work which says to me arrogance.