2008 - Who's time is running out?

[whizkizz]

I might be jumping in a little early (being only 13 rounds in), but after reading the Suncoast thread and the mention of this being Matthew Moody's last legs, who else do you see not quite making the cut at the end of 2008?

Who's dropped their bundle, and have they got what it takes to turn it all around? In a thread started by Warwick, he's questioned whether or not the Lions will go for any trade bites, but regardless we must make the most of our last crack in the national draft for awhile, so who's going to make way?


For mine, I think Copeland is in a very dangeous place. His disposal efficiency has not been great of late, and is getting to the latter stages of his career. Any more tricks up his sleave?

 

[whizkizz]

Geez thats a bit stiff. I'm just trying to get something a bit different to talk about. I mean I'll go for who ever don's the Lions jumper (and what ever jumper that may be), I'd just like to see what people think of where they see some of the players at. And it would be a great story to look back on 'geez I would have had Stiller on the chopping block for sure after Round 13, but wow moving him forward saved his career'.

Just speculation.

 

[Ruse]

We'll have to delist at least 5 players and maybe more at the end of the season as a couple of rookies like tippett and begley get upgraded. Maybe Pat Garner as well as I hear sees being going swimmingly. At this stage moody may possibly get delisted but if he keeps up his form for suncoast he may get a stay of execution. Lappin might retire but it's not impossibly for him to go another season particularly if we go close in the finals. Harding and Copeland might be in danger but then again i could see either or both stay on for longer. All our other kids are really young still and would get another season at least to prove their worth. I think selwood will get another season due to the fact that he had an interrupted preseason and the coaching panel will in all likelihood give him an extra preseason to sort his game.

So yeah I can only see four players really at this stage who might be in trouble but I don't think there's anyone who is a definite out. We are gonna have a headache come the end of the year on who to let go cause there's not really anyone and our rookies are really pushing.

 

[lions_den]

I don't think Lappin will play on next year, especially with all the injuries he's copped of late.

 

[whizkizz]

All our other kids are really young still and would get another season at least to prove their worth.

It's interesting you say this because I totally agree. We haven't seen the class of 06 (in Hawksley, Tyler, Schmidt and Sheldon), and you'd hope that the untried youngsters are all given some sort of chance.

 

[Grimreepah]

I can't see players who are regularly playing senior football getting the flick. IMO:

McDonald - retired
Lappin - looks likely to retire
Copeland - under the pump
Harding - fairly safe
Hawksley - under the pump
Mills - under the pump
Moody - most likely delisted
Schmidt - would be nervous but I think will be safe
Selwood - fairly safe
Stiller - fairly safe
Tyler - under the pump
Austin - unlikely being a first year player but not completely safe
Sheldon - should be safe

Dzufer - most likely delisted
Clouston - 50/50
Garner - will be retained IMO
Kiel - under the pump
Tippett - under the pump (I think will be gone).
Smith - who knows
Begley - promoted to senior list

 

[carnaroys08]

With the Lions superb depth and mix of talent, any player who will/can not fall in to line with what the coach demands will be in line for the old chop chop. What a healthy position to be in!!!!!
The lads will be working their butts off to fulfill ANY role given to them. We will play finals this year and i estimate we can improve a further 4 to 6 goals on what we have shown so far this season. We are the real deal.
Look out for players who display any lack of discipline or fail to do whats best for the "team".

 

[whizkizz]

Kiel - under the pump

Aww not the next Michael Voss!? Ah darn it!

 

[acuguy]

I think the Lions have some tough decisions to make, hopefully they will do their best around trade time to get players and picks to other clubs for upgraded draft picks

 

[charles202]

I like the idea of this thread, and having been musing over whether to start it myself, have been reluctant due to the ease of which a thread like this can get of base in a hurry, however points to Kizzel for getting it started.

I agree that we may need to delist up to five or six players at the end of this year, and its going to be a tough job!

At the beginning of the year I had the usual suspects pencilled in:-

Harding – Doesn’t use pace to advantage.
Moody – Great pace buy Cant kick.
McGrath – Well he always wants to go home.
Selwood – Too slow.
Corrie – Wont recover from injury.
JMac – Late form 2007 was an aberration.

However 2008 from made a mockery of my preseason list and has now gone in the bin. Trying to do an updated listed is really hard, and to be frank fairly inaccurate as I don’t get to see enough of the magoos. But here goes:-

Moody:- Sounds like he is starting to improve his disposal from recent report, However I fear that it may be too little to late. I think that one of WA teams will look to pick him up and since they will be both be down the bottom of the table I cant see us leveraging a draft pick from either team.

Harding:- This probably wont be a popular pick on here and it could be one that comes back to bite us. However, I think that we will be drafting a few mids in this years draft and we have a whole bunch of midfielders that we need to find out whether they can play.

Stiller:- If people didn’t like the Harding pick they are going to hate this one. Falls into the same category as Harding a bit in that he has all the tools to be a good solid player who could fall into that range of late teens early twenty’s. IMO he hasn’t been bale to balance his current deficiencies in his game with something that he does exceptionally well (Riska last year was able to sneak a spot for half the season based purely on his tackling pressure, we have seen the benefit of that this season)

Lappin – I think will retire. Which will be a sad day, I will always think him as a true gentleman of the game, and I cant think of a better role model off and on the field. Will be missed.

Mills – This is hard for me as I am a big fan of Alices’. I agree with a comment made in another thread that Alice has all the tools to play AFL football except for a kick, of all the delistment this one I am the most unsure of. I thought we needed to delist a KPP to maintain balance, and the only ones were Mills and Tyler, while Mills is a better player now I think that Tyler has a higher ceiling.

Sheldon – I think we might try and sneak Sheldon on to the Rookie list due to the amount of injuries he has had since being up here, this might be a bit of a risky gambit though due to potential interest from Carlton.
That’s my two cents at the moment and I don’t expect it to be popular at the moment.

 

[Cousin Jed]

I can't see players who are regularly playing senior football getting the flick. IMO:

McDonald - retired
Lappin - looks likely to retire
Copeland - under the pump
Harding - fairly safe
Hawksley - under the pump
Mills - under the pump
Moody - most likely delisted
Schmidt - would be nervous but I think will be safe
Selwood - fairly safe
Stiller - fairly safe
Tyler - under the pump
Austin - unlikely being a first year player but not completely safe
Sheldon - should be safe

Dzufer - most likely delisted
Clouston - 50/50
Garner - will be retained IMO
Kiel - under the pump
Tippett - under the pump (I think will be gone).
Smith - who knows
Begley - promoted to senior list

Geez Grim....half the list is under the pump

Seeing Mills toiling away in defence on Saturday night I was thinking about this myself, wondering which guys have got 10 weeks left to stake their claims.

 

[dlanod]

Beau's retired.
Nigel's... well, I'm not holding out heaps of hope here for another go around.
We can then shift Notting and Bradshaw on to our veteran's list.

Net result: two free spots.

You'd have to assume Begley's being promoted, using one of those. We'd need to free up another three from the main list minimum, probably four, plus any more for promoted rookies though I'm not sure who is going to hold on out of the current crop. They were promising at the time but they don't seem to be beating down the door. It's going to be an interesting end of year review.

 

[mpal6]

Its sad but I feel Garner would be missing out. Cant keep him in rookie list (damn the 2 years limit) and dont see him getting promoted.

 

[Grimreepah]

Its sad but I feel Garner would be missing out. Cant keep him in rookie list (damn the 2 years limit) and dont see him getting promoted.

He's only been on the rookie list one year, hasn't he?

 

[CoZi36]

You know that if we delist a player, we can pick them up again in the draft. We will pick up a KPP or a ruckman with our first pick like usual and we need a speedy midfielder.

 

[mpal6]

1 year signups : Sheldon, Mills, Schmidt, Tyler, Copeland, Hawksley.
Delist: Clouston, Dzufer, Garner
Trade: Moody
I think McGrath signed up on a 1 year coz he couldnt get to WA through last years draft. Not sure if finals footy would entice him to stay as WA clubs are on good position to snare him this time.
Not sure Moody and Mills would wanna stay either.

 

[mpal6]

He's only been on the rookie list one year, hasn't he?

yup, My bad. .. Glad he is.

Quote:
Brisbane Lions gives Pat Garner second chance
Article from:
December 10, 2007 11:00pm

INJURY-plagued youngster Pat Garner has received a second chance from the Brisbane Lions in today's AFL Rookie Draft.
Garner, 20, was delisted by the Lions just last month after undergoing a second consecutive knee reconstruction.
However, Garner was thrown a lifeline when he was selected as pick No.23 by Brisbane today along with another injury-troubled rookie Phil Smith (No.7) and, as expected, Irishman Pearce Hanley (No.38).
Garner, a promising key position prospect, has been sidelined since the start of the 2006 season but is expected to make his return to the field early next year.

 

[notting18]

Beau's retired.
Nigel's... well, I'm not holding out heaps of hope here for another go around.
We can then shift Notting and Bradshaw on to our veteran's list.

Net result: two free spots.

I am pretty sure the net result is 3 spots. If Nigel retires, as he is an off-the-list veteran, we are effectively removing Notting, Bradshaw and Beau from the Main List.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

If I had to make the call right now for delistments, it would be:

McDonald (no-brainer)
Mills (re-draft as a rookie?)
Moody (would break my heart and I hope he tears it up in the second half of the season and gives us a hard decision)
Lappin (ditto, but getting on the park is becoming a rarity)

Trade bait: Stiller, Harding, Selwood, Copeland

Gone from rookie list:

Kiel (a true footballer but doesn't seem to hurt enough)
Dzufer (discipline issues will cost him)
Smith (haven't seen him play TBH, so just going on what I've heard around the traps)

 

[dlanod]

Smith and Garner have an extra year, because they've only been on the rookie list for a year. I believe one of Tippett, Clouston, Kiel or Dzufer can be re-drafted as a third year rookie but they have to go through the rookie draft, which could be problematic depending on what the GC "team" ends up with. The other two would either have to be promoted or delisted.

 

[Old Den]

You know that if we delist a player, we can pick them up again in the draft. We will pick up a KPPor a ruckman with our first pick like usual and we need a speedy midfielder.

Not if another club drafts him before we have the pick that we planned to use to re-draft that player

There is less risk in that gamble if the club has an early pick in the 3rd round or maybe the 4th round

 

[Old Den]

Smith and Garner have an extra year, because they've only been on the rookie list for a year. I believe one of Tippett, Clouston, Kiel or Dzufer can be re-drafted as a third year rookie but they have to go through the rookie draft, which could be problematic depending on what the GC "team" ends up with. The other two would either have to be promoted or delisted.

Can Garner have 2 years on the rookie list after being on the senior list for 2 years?

 

[John]

I would be surprised if Mills or Sheldon were de-listed. Mills is a very good reader of the play, is strong and is a good contested grab. I have heard that he is also considered a project player. Also I thought that he was more than adequate last season when required. Bear in mind he is only 21 in August. yes his kick is suspect but if his development in other areas keeps at the same pace I would like to think he could be a play huge part for our team in a couple of years time.

Sheldon has a heap of skill. In fact I was very impressed last season when I caught him on the ressies. He is also very young. 19 and not turning 20 until next year. They do not de-list players like this due to injuries nor did they give him the number 3 for nothing either.

Rookies do not count in the senior list as to the minimum of 5 de-listings required so I suspect that we would see a few go anyway. As to Clousten though has been impressive in the 2 ressies games that I have caught this year. Last year he played exclusively in defense in the games I caught but in the 2 I have seen this year he has been moved around and looks to have improved in leaps and bounds. He is 193cm and big bodied, takes a good grab, kicks well and presents. I am not too sure as to his rookies status at the end of the season but if he was elevated I would not be surprised.

Another that I would be surprised to see delisted is Stiller. He is a ball magnet who has 41 games under his belt at only 22 years of age. On the weekend he actually enhanced his skill as a kicker with me in that he hit a beauty of his non preferred to the top of the square that resulted in a mark and a goal. Yes he has the occasional mis kick but they all do. I would have thought that the club would have had him working on his areas of concern as apposed to de-listing.

FWIW I think that the only certainty is Matt Moody and I suspect that Nig will give it away. With Begs a straight elevation for Beau that leaves 3 spaces. The 1 listed player that I think may be looked at is Schmidt. Does not get his head over the ball enough for me.

As to any others I have no idea.

 

[dlanod]

Can Garner have 2 years on the rookie list after being on the senior list for 2 years?

I think so. The AFL says "A club can retain a maximum of three players on its rookie list for a second season provided it nominates those players at the time of the compulsory list lodgement." at http://www.afl.com.au/_____/History/AFL101/tabid/1029/Default.aspx#rookie but I'm assuming that's not necessarily the full details since it's missing the exception for third year rookies.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Tyler - under the pump
Sheldon - should be safe

I fail to see what the difference between these two players is, in terms of what they've done to shore up their spot.

Clouston isn't a 50/50 by the way. He's a star in the making and will be elevated IMO.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion obviously, but its a bit hard to make definitive calls on rookies etc without watching Suncoast games.

A player doesn't have to appear in the best on ground list on the AFLQ website to secure their spot.