List Mgmt. 2023 List Management thread - Pt2 Now With Added Wailing & Gnashing of Teeth

[Lore]

Hello Dockers fans!

The embedded resources below are kept up to date by the trade board mods (as much as possible – we are human after all). Enjoy!

Spoiler: 2023 Draft Order

Spoiler: 2024 Draft Order, aka Future Picks

Spoiler: Blue Tick Rumours

 

[Carnthedockers]

As long as we're equally willing to high ball, I don't think this is an issue.

I agree. I see this as a bit of a line in the sand trade considering what we have invested.

 

[Taylor]

Doubt it on Henry. He was developing nicely from the preseason and showing great structural traits to own that wing spot. It's what gives substance to the form he produced after getting back into the side and huge confidence it's not just a flash in the pan.

It's also possible that Fremantle found out Henry was gone at least by the middle of the year and the conversation was that there won't be any trade value for a player who isn't playing. Similar to Sharp.

So he was played.

 

[arsesmart]

I agree. I see this as a bit of a line in the sand trade considering what we have invested.

I wonder if they're trying to get the Hawks (or preferably the Dees) nibbling away on the side, whispering sweet nothings in his ear and dissing the Saints for not putting their money where their mouths are.

 

[wahooo]

I actually agree with your broader point but we still had to let hamling go.

The mistake was not made this week by list management. A series of smaller mistakes were made over the last 2 or 3 years that led to this point, and each time I remember being on here saying WTF are they thinking?

• giving Ethan Highes a 3 year deal in 2021. Just why?
• Banfield getting a 2 year extension in 2022. One was perfectly sufficient for a player of his standard.
• Corbett coming in on a 2 year deal aged 26. Can kinda understand this one as we needed to persuade him to come from GC but one year would have been enough. He’s one million percent certain to be delisted next year.
• worner getting a 2 year deal in June having never played an AFL game and being a rookie. Dumb stuff and completely unnecessary. He’s the new Stefan Giro. These decisions hurt us. Next year we could find ourselves deciding between Worner and someone like NOD for example, for a list spot for 2025, and worner is already signed till then so our hands are tied again.
• Kuek getting extended even though he’s out all next season with an ACL. I would say there’s a less than 5% chance he ever plays an AFL game now. Can help feel he’s being kept around coz we are good blokes and don’t want to be mean and cut an injured guy.
• Brodie getting a 3 year extension and heading straight for the comfort zone at peel a week later, being unsighted since at AFL level is starting to look like another stuff up.

These deals took up the most precious commodity in the club - list spots.
Hamling is far better than all those players but had to go because the list spot squeeze meant we couldn’t keep him around. I maintain it’s the right decision now, but it’s because of the damage done by earlier errors highlighted above.

Keep the multi year deals for proven established AFL players.

Hughes' contract was not a mistake. This is the hill I will die on.

In the time that Hamling was injured, Hughes consistently fronted up in our best 22. He's versatile. Can play tall or small. Or take a medium to free up someone like Ryan to play tall.

If we have an injury to a KPD this year, the first person stepping up will be Hughes.

If anything, Hamling leaving highlights the importance of depth players like Hughes. He's no world beater but he can step in and play multiple roles. Plus he's tough as nails. Not to mention, has a pretty good record of staying on the park. Perfect player to retain as depth and to call him depth may be an insult to his true value because he has retained spots in the best 22 for extended periods over the years.

Hughes deserved 3 years and he has proven his worth.

The Hughes bashing needs to stop. It just has no proper basis.

 

[Joao]

I agree. I see this as a bit of a line in the sand trade considering what we have invested.

Agree. Fingers crossed Bell and Wallsy bring their spines.

 

[arsesmart]

It's also possible that Fremantle found out Henry was gone at least by the middle of the year and the conversation was that there won't be any trade value for a player who isn't playing. Similar to Sharp.

So he was played.

I dunno. Their language both up front and between the lines suggested they were more than just a little hopeful of him staying.

There's no denying his form was more than strong enough to win his place back in the side and to stay there though. So much more so than just to fatten up his trade value.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I agree. I see this as a bit of a line in the sand trade considering what we have invested.

I like to think this trade is the crescendo of the war with Young which is very clearly a thing now. There is every reason to be complete campaigners on this one. We have very little to lose and the only thing we owe most parties involved is spite / payback.

* em all I say, don’t care if on this one trade we get nothing

 

[andreww90]

Sydney were bottom 4 couple of years they’ve just keap frogged us.

Sydney finished top 6 in 2021 and then played in a grand final last season.

 

[Vintage]

Because he’s had a very serious injury & a long rehabilitation period.
Proved that he’s still easily up to the level when he got his chance this year.

He’s a very intelligent, reliable, no nonsense defender that may well have several years of good football in him. Would be 100% confident of his performance in finals if we needed him.

That’s without even considering how he’s been mentoring younger players at Peel.

Total moneyball player but we’re letting him go (& Wilson) & keeping dross like O’Meara, Banfield, Corbett, Worner around of whom only O’Meara has shown A grade ability & his best days are long behind him.

Sydney will have done a medical. If I was a betting man I’d be very confident of Hamling playing at least 75% of games next season & that he’s got 2 years of high standard AFL in him. Sydney are one of the best clubs at pulling off these moneyball identification of players.

I just don’t understand the reasoning here. I’m not saying I’m right just that it appeared a total no brainer to keep him around. He can’t have been that expensive & he appears to offer significantly more value than some of the players we are keeping.

I’m happy to be proven wrong but I bet Hamling plays finals again before our lot do. Just like Acres.

Yes but he wants to play AFL - we can’t offer him that. That’s why he is leaving.

i would have loved him to stay too - a year more on the list mentoring the youngins, and then some sort of development role with them. That‘s not what Hammer wanted though.

 

[Joao]

I like to think this trade is the crescendo of the war with Young which is very clearly a thing now. There is every reason to be complete campaigners on this one. We have very little to lose and the only thing we owe most parties involved is spite / payback.

* em all I say, don’t care if on this one trade we get nothing

100%

A lowball return is as close to zero value (to us) as possible, meaning risking losing it to get more is basically no risk at all.

 

[Demons09]

Sydney finished top 6 in 2021 and then played in a grand final last season.

So they finished 16th in 2020 and played off in a GF last year even more impressive.

 

[wahooo]

Hughes' contract was not a mistake. This is the hill I will die on.

In the time that Hamling was injured, Hughes consistently fronted up in our best 22. He's versatile. Can play tall or small. Or take a medium to free up someone like Ryan to play tall.

If we have an injury to a KPD this year, the first person stepping up will be Hughes.

If anything, Hamling leaving highlights the importance of depth players like Hughes. He's no world beater but he can step in and play multiple roles. Plus he's tough as nails. Not to mention, has a pretty good record of staying on the park. Perfect player to retain as depth and to call him depth may be an insult to his true value because he has retained spots in the best 22 for extended periods over the years.

Hughes deserved 3 years and he has proven his worth.

The Hughes bashing needs to stop. It just has no proper basis.

An addendum to my earlier post.

Anyone that wants to talk s**t about Hughes should have to ride one of his bumps first.

 

[Dockeroo]

I wonder if they're trying to get the Hawks (or preferably the Dees) nibbling away on the side, whispering sweet nothings in his ear and dissing the Saints for not putting their money where their mouths are.

If you can point me a single example in the last 15 years of a player that came out and nominated a club he wanted to get to before the trade period started, but was then traded to a different club in that same trade period against his will, I’d like to hear it.
Maybe it had happened once or twice but I don’t remember it. It simply will not happen.

I like to think this trade is the crescendo of the war with Young which is very clearly a thing now. There is every reason to be complete campaigners on this one. We have very little to lose and the only thing we owe most parties involved is spite / payback.

* em all I say, don’t care if on this one trade we get nothing

You guys are letting emotion get the better of you here. We will get a second round pick for Henry and it’s not nothing. I’d be livid with the club if we turned down a second rounder to make a point and ended up with nothing. How’s that going to benefit us?
It’s a moot point anyway. Walls is a reasonable guy based on the interviews he did this week and he will make a deal with the saints of some kind.

 

[malpaso]

The Saints wanting Henry kind of makes me laugh, they are 2nd worst at Wing/Def in terms of stopping opposition players, Henry isn't going to improve that.

 

[arsesmart]

I like to think this trade is the crescendo of the war with Young which is very clearly a thing now. There is every reason to be complete campaigners on this one. We have very little to lose and the only thing we owe most parties involved is spite / payback.

* em all I say, don’t care if on this one trade we get nothing

We can have our cake and eat it too here. Enticing others to get in the queue for Henry (juicily a la another Colin Young special in the Mitch Clark trade), could give us leverage, not be passively taking it from the Saints and get something on our considerable investment.

 

[Taylor]

The irony here is that Young getting Joel a contract big enough to throw a compensation pick our way, potentially a very good one, could mean our other plans on picks don't need Henry to go through so we can be difficult with his other client.

 

[Steinfreo]

I love all the logical logisticians on here agreeing with every move the second shittest club in the afl makes. Every year we do dumb arse things and Hamling is one for next year.

 

[arsesmart]

If you can point me a single example in the last 15 years of a player that came out and nominated a club he wanted to get to before the trade period started, but was then traded to a different club in that same trade period against his will, I’d like to hear it.
Maybe it had happened once or twice but I don’t remember it. It simply will not happen.

Fair enough, nothing to do but just lay back and think of England then. [Insert Here]

 

[Taylor]

If you can point me a single example in the last 15 years of a player that came out and nominated a club he wanted to get to before the trade period started, but was then traded to a different club in that same trade period against his will, I’d like to hear it.
Maybe it had happened once or twice but I don’t remember it. It simply will not happen.

Mitch Clark was the big one involving us. Was happy with our contract, Brisbane wanted a slightly better pick, we thought we could screw them on it. Melbourne offered him more money and put a better pick on the table. Mitch had to be talked into accepting it by family but it was more money than he had ever seen.

 

[Piggy Smalls]

Jackson had just "An ok" year according to Barrett...

Only made the All Australian 40....

Yeah but he’s no Dylan Stevens.

 

[wakojako]

Hughes' contract was not a mistake. This is the hill I will die on.

In the time that Hamling was injured, Hughes consistently fronted up in our best 22. He's versatile. Can play tall or small. Or take a medium to free up someone like Ryan to play tall.

If we have an injury to a KPD this year, the first person stepping up will be Hughes.

If anything, Hamling leaving highlights the importance of depth players like Hughes. He's no world beater but he can step in and play multiple roles. Plus he's tough as nails. Not to mention, has a pretty good record of staying on the park. Perfect player to retain as depth and to call him depth may be an insult to his true value because he has retained spots in the best 22 for extended periods over the years.

Hughes deserved 3 years and he has proven his worth.

The Hughes bashing needs to stop. It just has no proper basis.

Also he doesn't hear footsteps unlike a certain Carlton captain during finals.

 

[Piggy Smalls]

I love all the logical logisticians on here agreeing with every move the second shittest club in the afl makes. Every year we do dumb arse things and Hamling is one for next year.

He’s out of contract and can’t be kept at Peel against his will. Would you drop the captain, the dual AA or the guy we just signed until 2030 to accommodate him? Hammer as depth would have been great for us but he’s way too good for that.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

If you can point me a single example in the last 15 years of a player that came out and nominated a club he wanted to get to before the trade period started, but was then traded to a different club in that same trade period against his will, I’d like to hear it.
Maybe it had happened once or twice but I don’t remember it. It simply will not happen.


You guys are letting emotion get the better of you here. We will get a second round pick for Henry and it’s not nothing. I’d be livid with the club if we turned down a second rounder to make a point and ended up with nothing. How’s that going to benefit us?
It’s a moot point anyway. Walls is a reasonable guy based on the interviews he did this week and he will make a deal with the saints of some kind.

I understand, depends how difficult Saints want to be / are bing on this. Top 30 straight up is non-negotiable, I’m not turning that down and I’d expect Saints to offer that. More if they want to be difficult (which seems to be the general consensus at the moment, made up or not) I am not accepting less than that

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I love all the logical logisticians on here agreeing with every move the second shittest club in the afl makes. Every year we do dumb arse things and Hamling is one for next year.

You’d have given him two years straight up?

 

[Superkoops]

I would argue we hit on almost every one. I think we are realistic in most cases. Let acres go for next to nothing, same with Langdon. Got par for Cerra, got plenty on neale and hill.

Langdon wasn’t nothing
- upgrade to an early second (something like 25 > 22) and a F2.
Was unders but wouldn’t describe as nothing. He was out of contract and Melbourne finished down bottom end of ladder. We got only marginally better return for Griff Logue in the same circumstances. Logue and Langdon were more similar examples. Acres we really didn’t try hard to re-sign and rightly he moved on. That was a mistake.

Also on a separate matter, an earlier post referred to re-signing Kuek as a mistake. He was re-signed for 1 year extension as a rookie but was re-signed prior to his injury. He had come off a great game kicking 6 goals. Overall a promising season. Then unfortunately after re-signing did ACL. Even in the game he did the knee injury he did some really good things.

He is an X-factor and has improved. He has the opportunity to bulk up which is his main need. No need for him to be delisted.

I would definitely be moving Corbett to Rookie list as a replacement for upgraded Josh Treacy. Corbett reportedly was carrying some injuries. Hopefully he can get that addressed. He just seemed to go missing for periods in the WAFL games. Would be handy depth via rookie list.

Out: Colyer, Wilson, Hamling, Benning, Corbett, Henry
In: Sharp (reportedly), Schultz (upgraded), Treacy (upgraded)

We are reportedly very interested in Mutaz El Nour (medium tall defender at 192cm). Get Jarrod Blight to come and train with the club during the pre-season again. Have him on standby as either SSP or mid season draft (after placing Kuek on long term injury for his ACL).

El Nour if selected (192cm), Hughes (190cm), Chapman (193cm) all have capacity to assist our two key backs Cox and APearce. That is before mentioning Hugh Davies who has been developing nicely. Josh Draper is a talent but from a size perspective needs time to bulk.

Chapman played as CHB for West Perth Colts and WA u18.