Autopsy 2023 Rd 2 - West Coast Eagles v GWS Giants, 6.20 pm (AEDT) Sunday 26 March @ Optus Stadium WA

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Pretty disappointing but a reality check for where the team is and also factoring in last weeks draining game and the team lack of travelling well
Like others Riccardi is a dumb and lazy footballer, Either play the 2 talls or bring in Cadman.
The Wehr incident shows the difference between a mature AFL body and a 2nd year in, if it was Angwin he would have been split in 2
Hogan and Greene kept the score respectful but they made J. Jones look like a competent AFL footballer instead of a fan whipping boy that he is

I have said it many times they need to learn how to stick tackles, so many broken or missed tackles makes it so embarrassing

Flynn was solid although he is more experienced than Williams

How many did Waterman (Another whipping boy) kick on Haynes, still not seeing much desperation from Haynes on the field but not a lot of options in the reserves and the game has passed Davis with the speed on the game he would be such a liability in defence

Hoping Kelly and Whitfield are good to go and dont think a spot is ready for Fahey yet but they need a couple of left footed players in defence to mix it up with the kick outs
 
MelbourneGWS said:
I thought Kingsley was going to change all that?
Click to expand...
Not sure anyone can convince the umpires to pay those against anyone other than the superstars
 

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Riccardi has to be dropped. I think we should consider 2 ruckman. I would also like Phillipou in the side, but we didn't trade well enough to get him.
 
A frustrating loss more then anything, dissapointing to lose to a team with such a poor record in their last couple seasons but more so frustrating because it felt like the game was there for us. There second quarter where our mids just got outplayed was the deciding factor in the game (we outscored them in every other quarter) and then our goal kicking being poor was also annoying although thats something that will even out over time, not too concerned about that more just annoying. If you look at both teams expected scores from the shots theys took we actually came out a few points ahead while not a perfect metric it is normally a pretty good representation of the game and we underachieved quite a bit from some of our goal kicking opportunities. Probably a good little reality check for us might've been getting a little bit confident after last weeks outstanding win.

  • Pretty impressed with Hamilton's game I've probably been a bit lower then him on a few on this board with some concerns over how he impact games offenisvely but he looked pretty good today, kicked it well and was dangerous as a ball carrier as well. Would pick him over Wehr tbh to pair with whoever is on the other wing
  • Haynes had a bit of a weird game, he still looks pretty good when he's allowed to float off his man and intercept but when he's forced to defend on the lead like he had to with Waterman I just don't think he has the juice anymore to stay with guys, especially when it was coming in so quick today. He's impressed with how good he's looked at getting in the right positions and reading the ball
  • Thought Taylor played really well and was particularly impressed with how good Buckley looks only 2 games back, limited Darling and Allen to only 1 mark i50 between them. They both intercepted well today, good performance from both of them.
  • Tom kicked it well tonight I thought especially early, displayed some really impressive touch on his kicks to get it right where it needed to be in a small window
  • That second quarter really just lost it for us, their mids just got on top of us and we weren't able to stop them really allowed there run and spread to open up and we just couldn't stop them
  • Some of the goal kicking was brutal, Hogan's first 3 were all misses and it felt like he should've kicked all of them, you could live with 1 of them missing but all of them is just not a good enoughr return, it'll work itself out but just annoying we had enough chances tonight and we just didn't take advantage
  • Rowston isn't ready yet and thats fine, had a good opportunity in the inside midfield and wasn't able to have much of an impact, first gamer so can't expect too much but at least we know what level he's at. His pressure was nice I thought but just didn't impact the game enough offensively, only 7 touches
  • Typical Toby game looked really dynamic up forward glad he got some run on ball hope we see more of it moving forward but don't think it'll be a consistent role by any means unfortunately. There was a point in which he just to complain to the umpire instead of pressuring i50 which really annoyed me.
  • This was as bad of a Riccardi performance as I can remember, didn't mark the ball well, had some opportunities to score and didn't cash in. He's likely there's no one breathing down his neck otherwise he wouldn't be playing, might call for a change in structure and run an extra small instead of him.
  • Very quiet for HH as well, has too many games like this where he just isn't really involved at all, same issues last week
Weird game, sort of feels like we're on the other side of the 2021 Swans final where the winning team had a good patch in the second quarter and that was all that was needed. Thought I'd be more upset with losing to them but the way the game played out but idk just hasn't really got to me that much. Kelly and Whitfield will be nice in's next week and we'll need them going against Carlton.
 
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All in all… after a sauna last week, and two of our best ball users out… I think the boys hung in on. In previous years that would have been a 10 goal loss.
If we kicked straighter early on it would have helped a lot.
Don’t underestimate the umpiring calls that we don’t get over there… one on Toby in the goals was one example.

That’s as much gusto as West Coast will play with all year. The way they stream forward when they have the ball is at least twice as fast as they run defensively. If we were a bit stronger in the contest they would have been exposed.

Our defensive unit, imo did a great job, considering how quickly the ball was coming in.

Anyway, we take it on the chin and move on.

I’m not sure about Conor Stone. He seems reactive to me, and doesn’t seem to bring anything particularly good, so to speak. I hope I’m wrong.

I bang on about this, but we need multiple genuine crumbing forwards.
If Peatling and Lloyd can’t do this then put in guys who can. Daniels is almost a better kid than small forward. Jones could be a perfect fit when he is up and going… and then add Bedford.
 
The woeful recent record of the Eagles magnifies our loss. West Coast just had their second home win since round 21 2021, and were on a record equaling 9 consecutive losses. At least we won 3 quarters. If the game was not played in Optus, we didn’t have key injuries and were backing up after an energy sapping Adelaide game, the outcome could well have been different. Oh well

 
BarryAglett said:
Stone has barely played for 2 years and looked like it yesterday. He is usually a good ball user with good goal sense.
I think he'll be better for the run and hopefully the coaches can help him get back to form.
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He looks like he has changed his body a little bit and looks a bit lighter? With all his soft tissue problems perhaps that was the advice. Maybe I’m seeing things but lacked a bit of zing.
 
ESPN’s review of the best/ worst players of round 2. Agree with Riccardi not performing but surprised they were so upbeat about Ash

Stocks up: You don't normally hear too much about Lachie Ash but he is very quickly emerging as one of the best young rebound defenders in the game. Ash had 656 metres gained from 21 disposals (81% efficiency) in Perth, reads the game exceptionally well and plays with the kind of dare that helps make the Giants a fun team to watch.

Stocks down: This Giants side has bucketloads of talent which is why that loss to the Eagles will hurt, and while their front-half match-winners are obvious -- think Toby Greene (4.2) and Jesse Hogan (3.4) -- we really hoped for more from Jake Riccardi. It was a game with nice moments from the 23-year-old, but putting through just 0.1 and dropping some crucial marks isn't the way to show off your potential. That's now two weeks without a goal for the key forward.

www.espn.com

Stocks up, stocks down: Long live King Charles; Swans choke at home, again!

In Round 7 of the 2023 AFL season, more than a few key forwards kicked career-best bags -- none bigger than King Charles -- but the Swans choked away a lead at home ... again.
www.espn.com www.espn.com
 
MelbourneGWS said:
Stocks up: You don't normally hear too much about Lachie Ash but he is very quickly emerging as one of the best young rebound defenders in the game. Ash had 656 metres gained from 21 disposals (81% efficiency) in Perth, reads the game exceptionally well and plays with the kind of dare that helps make the Giants a fun team to watch.
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Ash had a great game - decent effort with the kickins but his run and repeat efforts for handball receives was fantastic.
 
My observations from the game:
  • Everyone seemed 5-10% off (understandable after last week) but it just shows that you need to be at your best to beat any team in the AFL. West Coast got a sniff early in the second quarter and that was enough to win the game for them.
  • Jesse Hogan had a good game, minus the inaccurate set shots. At least he presents well, takes pack marks and usually makes the right decisions with ball in hand. Even with his wayward kicking he finished with three and was hard to handle for WC.
  • The same can't be said for Riccardi and Himmelberg. Like many others here, I've run out of patience for Jake. The sloppy efforts, lack of involvement and poor set shots just aren't up to AFL standard. Harry not much better really, but at least we know he can play as a backman where his field kicking and marking around the ground are valuable. To me, he's a 4/10 forward and a 7/10 back, and it might be worth him switching ends to get our game going.
  • Rowston looked lively early then faded. Still, showed a bit and will become a good player with more experience.
  • I get very nervous when I see Nick Haynes in a one-on-one contest. Is he under pressure when Aleer is fit again?
  • Realistically, these types of performances will be common with the list we have. How many wins would make it a good season for us? I'm thinking 8 based on what I've seen so far...
 

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Andre the Giant said:
I can’t disagree, he is a very vanilla player and for a Pick 4 it’s a bit disappointing. I liked him as a tagger, he seemed quite effective doing that. He doesn’t seem to have the breakaway speed he showed as a junior.
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I actually quite like Ash. I think he was one of the few offering run from the back and he breaks lines well.
 
Section226 said:
First thing Kingsley should do is banish Riccardi to the reserves, never to grace the senior team again.

Himmelberg? Send him down back.

This team is all over the place.

Another wasted year coming up. We're perpetually bottoming out.
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Perpetually bottoming out?
Before last season made 5 of 6 finals series and won at least one final.
hardly perpetually bottoming out.
 
In each of out first 2 games we have had one bad quarter. West Coast did more damage than Adelaide and made us pay.
Both times we weren't playing how they are planning on playing. They went into their shells.

Not desirable, but also not unexpected. It will take a little time to adjust.

We won the other 3 quarters today and were clearly the better team in those 3 quarters.

They are at times going too fast and than going to slow as they are trying to work it out.

A few times they kicked to early instead of going one more handball or taking it further in and bombed away unnecessarily.

It'll be a work in progress you'd suspect.

No Kelly and Whitfield hurts our run, they are in our best couple in most regards.

Ricarrdi's will be very under pressure. He was ok, but only ok, in the the Adelaide game after a good game in the trial. He was very poor yesterday, with Cadman in the wings waiting, that could be his last game for a while. Harry went well in the ruck as well, that doesnt help Ricarrdi's cause.
 
I think after what’s been presented so far… we don’t have to worry ourselves with making finals. Way too inconsistent and too disorganised to win 12 or more games.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Moderator
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Coaches votes ... only Tobes & Hogan polled 9as could be expected):

West Coast v Greater Western Sydney​

10 - Tim Kelly (WCE)
8 - Jamaine Jones (WCE)
3 - Jake Waterman (WCE)
3 - Toby Greene (GWS)
3 - Luke Shuey (WCE)
2 - Jesse Hogan (GWS)
1 - Dom Sheed (WCE)
 
IMHO, there needs to be less focus about what we DID a few seasons ago.

There has been substantial change in the playing roster so comparing our, let's face it, moderately successful deeds considering the club's 'then' talent with the most recent performance is not comparing apples with apples. Was just making finals enough? I expected more.

We appear to be going nowhere fast as we keep losing players, and the ones that we retain that we think are going to make that next step simply aren't.

Our top players can't carry the team on a constant basis. There are too many not performing for them to make up the slack. I sincerely hope not, but I see the Giants constantly sitting around 12th.
 
Section226 said:
IMHO, there needs to be less focus about what we DID a few seasons ago.

There has been substantial change in the playing roster so comparing our, let's face it, moderately successful deeds considering the club's 'then' talent with the most recent performance is not comparing apples with apples. Was just making finals enough? I expected more.

We appear to be going nowhere fast as we keep losing players, and the ones that we retain that we think are going to make that next step simply aren't.

Our top players can't carry the team on a constant basis. There are too many not performing for them to make up the slack. I sincerely hope not, but I see the Giants constantly sitting around 12th.
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I’m more optimistic in the medium term. This year may be worse than 12th, but I have faith that Kingsley will be given time to shape the game plan and the list. He’ll be more concerned about building a flag challenger in a few years than worrying about falling into the eight this year or maybe next with little chance of winning a flag. The list seriously lacks depth.
 
Giant Gutsache said:
I’m more optimistic in the medium term. This year may be worse than 12th, but I have faith that Kingsley will be given time to shape the game plan and the list. He’ll be more concerned about building a flag challenger in a few years than worrying about falling into the eight this year or maybe next with little chance of winning a flag. The list seriously lacks depth.
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I hope so too.

As you said, our list lacks depth, the injuries keep messing the team about.

Kingsley has been an excellent choice, but now that St Kilda and Nth Melbourne seem to have turned it around and Tasmania screaming for a team, I don't know if the AFL will give the Giants years.
 
Giant Gutsache said:
I’m more optimistic in the medium term. This year may be worse than 12th, but I have faith that Kingsley will be given time to shape the game plan and the list. He’ll be more concerned about building a flag challenger in a few years than worrying about falling into the eight this year or maybe next with little chance of winning a flag. The list seriously lacks depth.
Click to expand...
I agree. I think Kingsley will be more concerned with getting the team knowing and playing his new system, than focusing on the finals this year - if that happens it is a wonderful bonus. FWIW I do think we will be in contention this year but injuries and other results have to go our way.

Kingsley has a 3 year contract, so you would think we will be challenging before the end of his contract in 2025, so that he can be given an extension.
 
dlanod said:
Wow that's a big claim over two games.
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Do you think we're playing better than either of those teams?

If the Giants finish below them, even at the half way mark this season, the Vic-bias media will make a point of it.
 
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