Autopsy 8 point loss to Port

[melbournehammer]

Triple the clearances alongside having so many more handballs could easily just be Sweet having less backwards handballs or more of his kicks from a mark/FK. Don't think 50 odd meteres is as different as say 150-200

Grundy also had 67 Ruck Contests to Sweets 78 which shows he was better in like 16% less ruck time

I do agree. I actually think Grundy is playing better - I don’t rate him as a ruckman and he is very poor defensively, misses spoils drops uncontested marks etc. I like him around the ball when he can tackle and hurt people - when he gets handball receives it’s a problem because his kicking is poor a

But to his credit he is getting it which would seem to mean that he is getting to the right places. He appears to be giving away less frees - which is the main reason for my issues with him - soft centre square frees and free possessions are a huge issue but since north it doesn’t appear to have been as bad.

 

[Wheresbuddy]

I do agree. I actually think Grundy is playing better - I don’t rate him as a ruckman and he is very poor defensively, misses spoils drops uncontested marks etc. I like him around the ball when he can tackle and hurt people - when he gets handball receives it’s a problem because his kicking is poor a

But to his credit he is getting it which would seem to mean that he is getting to the right places. He appears to be giving away less frees - which is the main reason for my issues with him - soft centre square frees and free possessions are a huge issue but since north it doesn’t appear to have been as bad.

Apart for a couple of bad hand passes yesterday (he was not alone) Grundy was excellent yesterday. Sweet has developed into a very competent ruck. He's big and strong, very much like Lloyd Meek or Kieran Briggs and Grundy took the chocolates. Brodie is definitely not the problem at present.

Watching live at the ground, it's the inferior work rate and running of our wings and HF. They are the main reason why we're reduced to kicking long to a contest. Lloyd was actually ok for the first half but ran out of steam. McInerney, Corey and Roberts all got outworked. Florent and BJ might as well not have been there. JJ had one of his quieter games. It makes one realise how good Errol is. We tend to focus on his elite disposals but its also his running which is crucial. How many times does he bob up to take a mark in defence followed shortly by a mark and shot on goal in forward 50. We need him back badly.

 

[Swans22]

Frustrations
- Lloyds turnovers. Has led to several goals in last 2 games
-McCartin playing forward. Looks so out of place
-Warner - both of them ordinary
-Defensive accountability- Riolis last goal. Rampe was on him and then totally slacked to gift him the easiest of goals
-horrible for 3 Qi’s
-Blakey lower your eyes!

Positives
- Francis
-run off half back
-showed what we can produce in last q (concerning that it wasn’t there for 3qt)

 

[RubbaDuck]

Your just just being lazy and saying that this team is all fine as long as we are efficient and we don't need a major ball winner in our side to be competing with the best.

HELLO... Look at Brisbane with Neale McCluggage and Dunks

Look at Collingwood with Nick Daicos even Josh Daicos

Look at GWS with Green Whitfield Callaghan

Look at Geelong with Bailey Smith and Max Holmes

Look at Adelaide with Soligo Crouch Dawson Laird

Look at Gold Coast with Anderson Rowell Miller.


Sydney are the second lowest team for individual highest average possession winner at 24 per game in Roberts


Just checked another stat and for midfield classified players we have the lowest team for highest average possesion winner at 22.3 in Heeney

In response to you insisting that high possession counts are the sole reliable indicator of team success, I politely noted that a sheer volume of touches is not always the most reliable measure of a player's contribution. I gave some examples of why and when I felt that may be so. It seemed a reasonable and courteous reply without attacking yourself or your personal premise. Far from contradicting your opinion, I had merely suggested you refine or expand your thinking. You obviously took umbrage at my comment.

I was still surprised when your reply began with "Massive coping mechanism" That was followed by much the same rant as your original proposition. I can assure you I read it the first time. The sentence "Massive coping mechanism" was abrupt, out of place and blunt edged, with no contextual framing. Perplexed, I asked you what you were referring to with your opening sentence.

Your muddled use of inappropriate English meant I could hardly be sure that this was your attempt at a hostile put-down. Your tone suggested you were attempting a put down but merely laying out your insults in a more detailed form didn't really clarify what your beef was. Falsely framing an opinion as mine, perhaps to try to bolster your own, didn't help. It seems you honed your debating skills on teenage social media.

You accuse me of being lazy. Really? WTF do you know about me? This isn't a forum for anonymous incels to sling generalised insults at women they would never have the opportunity to meet. Yet your style of writing comes across like Captain Keyboard on a laptop in his bedroom at his parents' house, dishing out opinions and aggression.

You falsely claimed I said "the team is all fine as long as we are efficient and we don't need a major ball winner in our side to be competing with the best." I never wrote any such thing nor did I express any such opinion. Don't ever think I'll let you put rubbish into my mouth.

You use "Hello...." as a form of scorn, a put-down, an attempt to suggest I'm somehow not up to speed or adequately informed. It's hardly in the spirit of a footy team forum. You also make the mistake of thinking I'm someone who might roll-over. You seem desperate to impress win some kind of point. I begin to see why your posts can't average even one like each.

OK, your writing skills suggest you're a child or a teen, so I'll cut you a little slack. Most adult members of the forum would not be comfortable engaging at your level, especially when you feel the need to be discourteous.

This is a forum that welcomes opinions, whether they're right, wrong or something in between. You can have your own opinion but you don't have a licence to abuse those who might offer an opposite, adjunct or supplementary opinion. Smart people learn from the opinions of others, not through rigidly defending their own opinion.

IMO you need to learn a little courtesy, show more humility (eg, use IMO), listen to others and lighten the f-up.

If you can't help making petty personal attacks, go pester someone else. I'm not interested in any further discourse with you

 

[Kiama Chris]

I had to leave just after 3/4 time as my 5yo grandson got sick so I missed Francis's heroics. A real pity because I love to see a player come good. Quite a few moments stuck in my mind but sadly most of them were not good.
1) we had 4 blokes around 2 of theirs contesting, they won it and spread like lightning. Left us standing. Literally. No energy.
2) Rioli running away from Roberts. I like Roberts and rate him but he wasn't quick enough.
3) Bice got trapped right in front of me in the pocket (Bay 28) and cracked the shuts. Put on the afterburners and ran straight through 4 Port guys. Amazing run. Handballed it to another Swan who..... dropped it. New contract for Bice please. He really cares.
4) The Swans of early last year would have demolished this Port team by 10+ goals. Not just personnel but more energy and dash. Too many players with no heart.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Kane Cornes slammed the Mccartin move

Mr Opinion had an opinion??!! Blow me down!

 

[Del198236]

Your just just being lazy and saying that this team is all fine as long as we are efficient and we don't need a major ball winner in our side to be competing with the best.

HELLO... Look at Brisbane with Neale McCluggage and Dunks

Look at Collingwood with Nick Daicos even Josh Daicos

Look at GWS with Green Whitfield Callaghan

Look at Geelong with Bailey Smith and Max Holmes

Look at Adelaide with Soligo Crouch Dawson Laird

Look at Gold Coast with Anderson Rowell Miller.


Sydney are the second lowest team for individual highest average possession winner at 24 per game in Roberts


Just checked another stat and for midfield classified players we have the lowest team for highest average possesion winner at 22.3 in Heeney

Swans had 15 out of the top 20 possession winners yesterday
just needed to kick straight

 

[Del198236]

Honestly think its time to send a message. Drop Rampe for horrific form and keep in Hamling and put McCartin into the backline. Need to drop Lloyd but honestly don't know who to as there isn't a good winger/small forward to bring in tbh.

Problem is we have a failing set of Wingers/Small forwards atm

Lloyd, Florent, Campbell, JMac, Hanily, Warner, Cleary

yep Rampes 19 disposals @ 100% efficiency, 6 score involvements (= 7th of both teams) and an awesome dont argue were terrible!
Would've won if others field kicking was at his level

 

[The King!]

Mr Opinion had an opinion??!! Blow me down!

Sometimes he is right though

 

[The King!]

yep Rampes 19 disposals @ 100% efficiency, 6 score involvements (= 7th of both teams) and an awesome dont argue were terrible!
Would've won if others field kicking was at his level

Yeah sometimes a stat sheet doesn’t tell a story, like how many times your opponent is on his own because you are too slow to get back, and couldn’t compete like you used to in a contest/

However I thought he did get better as the game went, makes me think maybe the way to maximise Rampe is to play Melican, Mccartin and say Hamling, use Rampe and Bice with a small and free up Blakey for the midfield fwd role, where he also looked more damaging.

35 and undersized why should he be in a 1 on 1 v some big forward, the fact he has performed miracles so often has spoiled us.

 

[Del198236]

Our kicking was terrible. Field kicking and at goal.
Kick like we normally do and we win by 6 goals

 

[The King!]

Our kicking was terrible. Field kicking and at goal.
Kick like we normally do and we win by 6 goals

Both teams butchered the ball. If port didn’t drop so many marks or just kick to nothing they could have been 50 up at half time though, ifs and buts of course, but a good team would have smashed us for our mistakes.

We salvaged the stats a lot late when Port basically stopped dead too


I agree the poor goal kicking, poor field kicking, dumb decisions, inability to man up and just lazily zone off, watching guys mark in front and not even make a contest (Blakey style), school boy effort things and skill execution mistakes cost us.

But it’s a lot of basics to tidy up, BUT we can do it, there is something there

 

[Del198236]

Yeah sometimes a stat sheet doesn’t tell a story, like how many times your opponent is on his own because you are too slow to get back

Sometimes the TV screen doesn't tell a story either..
but agree- I saw Roberts being too slow and his opponent would continually waltz past him

So combine the TV, the stats and the biased supporter, and who the f**k knows what's happening

 

[The King!]

Sometimes the TV screen doesn't tell a story either..
but agree- I saw Roberts being too slow and his opponent would continually waltz past him

So combine the TV, the stats and the biased supporter, and who the f**k knows what's happening

Guess if any of us could say hey Dean just do X and Sydney win we wouldn’t be here typing now .


Sometimes I feel like we have a lot of outside thinking body running players all over the ground and if the running game isn’t going and the corridor is closed off we are just forced off the ball too easily. For us someone like Roberts looks like a bull, don’t know officially but he is probably only 80 kilos

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Sometimes he is right though

Yeah he has some good insights.

I just think he could make a great character in Viz comics.

Mr Opinion getting into bed with his long-suffering missus, spouting opinions about world events when all she wants to do is sleep, on the bus in the morning, sharing his opinions with complete strangers who just want to read the paper…

Eventually so busy spouting his opinions he fails to heed the warnings about the grand piano plummeting onto him from the top of the building.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

Guess if any of us could say hey Dean just do X and Sydney win we wouldn’t be here typing now .


Sometimes I feel like we have a lot of outside thinking body running players all over the ground and if the running game isn’t going and the corridor is closed off we are just forced off the ball too easily. For us someone like Roberts looks like a bull, don’t know officially but he is probably only 80 kilos

Roberts had 30 possessions - we tend to remember the ones he butchered.

Howvever, I still think he had a superior game when compared to our flankers, Corey and McI, who really had no impact on the game & simply didn’t find the ball. Or Lloyd, who tends to just stop and wait, before bombing it.

Roberts has done plenty right this year. He’s not quick, but he’s solid. And he doesn’t fall off tackles the way some others do.

 

[The King!]

Roberts had 30 possessions - we tend to remember the ones he butchered.

Howvever, I still think he had a superior game when compared to our flankers, Corey and McI, who really had no impact on the game & simply didn’t find the ball. Or Lloyd, who tends to just stop and wait, before bombing it.

Roberts has done plenty right this year. He’s not quick, but he’s solid. And he doesn’t fall off tackles the way some others do.

Roberts can get the ball that’s for sure, trouble at Sydney is we need Campbell to get it more and Roberts to get it less, but clubs won’t try as hard to stop Roberts. not saying he isn’t smart to get the ball, they wouldn’t stop me either and I still wouldn’t get a kick. But imo at times, he is just playing in space behind the ball so degree of difficulty to say Campbell getting a kick is lower.

He will be fine long term, though is in an effective spot? But he panics so much with ball in hand, it’s a hot potato, to me it’s more than just 4 turnovers. Lot of his bad disposals aren’t even turnovers, they are just nothing, or they put a guy under pressure who then records the turnover, which is what Parker used to do a lot. He needs to take a beat, needs to think, for a guy who gets so much uncontested ball you want him making good choices.

if you coach against Sydney do you want Bice, Campbell or Roberts using it. I’d take Roberts every time.

Maybe he can big the body mid at the bounce was more my original point, but he isn’t even that big, I think we have a lot of light outside players.

Heeney and Rowbottom are in every contest and Rowbottom especially is light.

even a Kennedy who went to the dogs would be handy

 

[Kiama Chris]

Both teams butchered the ball. If port didn’t drop so many marks or just kick to nothing they could have been 50 up at half time though, ifs and buts of course, but a good team would have smashed us for our mistakes.

We salvaged the stats a lot late when Port basically stopped dead too


I agree the poor goal kicking, poor field kicking, dumb decisions, inability to man up and just lazily zone off, watching guys mark in front and not even make a contest (Blakey style), school boy effort things and skill execution mistakes cost us.

But it’s a lot of basics to tidy up, BUT we can do it, there is something there

We KNOW there is something there because we have seen it before it disappeared.

 

[Kbroome]

Swans had 15 out of the top 20 possession winners yesterday
just needed to kick straight

Your just proving my point. We dominated possessions and still had basically no right to win until the last quarter when Port switched off. Won the disposals 107-64 in the last quarter which is where most of the difference lies.

The problem we had noone to look to as the leader throughout the game, Heeney had 4 touches in the Second and Third Quarter. Chad only had 21 touches in the game itself. We have noone to turn to when the going gets tough and just going to get the footy and give us a chance. No one in our squad is a 30 possession winner and we rely way to heavily on Heeney and Grundy at the moment to smash their matchups for us to have a chance

 

[caesar88]

Maybe it's unfair to name names and attribute blame on such an individual level, but

Florent, Lloyd, Roberts, McInerney

this group are absolutely killing us this year, because they're supposed to be our elite ball use crew and the guys responsible for our ball movement coming off.

And yet I trust inside bulls and key defenders to be good with the ball more than I trust this quartet.

And because they're so light as outside players, they offer SFA in a physicality sense.

There are others that contribute to this problem - Warner Jr., Campbell, Hayward, Jordon, Blakey - but I'm inclined to give them more of a pass because they're either young & developing, not really playing in a key distributor role, or have balanced out the negatives with some good footy this year.

Not sure what to do but I'd maybe start by dropping one of the names from that aforementioned quartet. The obvious one is Lloyd, because at his age he is most expendable going forward, but that to me is actually why I think it should be someone like a Florent, someone who has time on their side to change the trajectory of their career. Lloyd's been a champion and is winding down his career now. Drop him and there's no guarantee we'd actually get him back. At least with Florent it could be the trigger and rocket up the arse that saves us another 3-4 years of this frustration.

 

[Kbroome]

Maybe it's unfair to name names and attribute blame on such an individual level, but

Florent, Lloyd, Roberts, McInerney

this group are absolutely killing us this year, because they're supposed to be our elite ball use crew and the guys responsible for our ball movement coming off.

And yet I trust inside bulls and key defenders to be good with the ball more than I trust this quartet.

And because they're so light as outside players, they offer SFA in a physicality sense.

There are others that contribute to this problem - Warner Jr., Campbell, Hayward, Jordon, Blakey - but I'm inclined to give them more of a pass because they're either young & developing, not really playing in a key distributor role, or have balanced out the negatives with some good footy this year.

Not sure what to do but I'd maybe start by dropping one of the names from that aforementioned quartet. The obvious one is Lloyd, because at his age he is most expendable going forward, but that to me is actually why I think it should be someone like a Florent, someone who has time on their side to change the trajectory of their career. Lloyd's been a champion and is winding down his career now. Drop him and there's no guarantee we'd actually get him back. At least with Florent it could be the trigger and rocket up the arse that saves us another 3-4 years of this frustration.

I'd honestly like to see Lloyd dropped and potentially move Roberts into the midfield (over Campbell) because I feel like Roberts is actually really good with the contested handballs. But then again we probably have Mills returning in 3 weeks time (accounting for 1-2 weeks in the VFL) and he goes almost into the Roberts role itself on ball and at times at half back

 

[caesar88]

I'd honestly like to see Lloyd dropped and potentially move Roberts into the midfield (over Campbell) because I feel like Roberts is actually really good with the contested handballs. But then again we probably have Mills returning in 3 weeks time (accounting for 1-2 weeks in the VFL) and he goes almost into the Roberts role itself on ball and at times at half back

Not really sure what to do with Lloyd because if he is just cooked then dropping him doesn't really move the needle much. He probably ends up stuck in the VFL because he's not suddenly going to turn back the clock at the lower level if his body won't allow it. Then we just end up one senior player short while guys like Florent & McInerney, who we need to be good players over the next 5 years, continue on their way being average.

I'd prefer us play the long game and use the selection axe for something meaningful and productive. Sending a player to the reserves who could actually improve as a player by working on their craft at the lower level and coming back better for it. I'd take that short-term sacrifice if it spares us another 4-5 years of frustration with Florent, McInerney etc.

 

[Kapers]

I know I've been harping on Warner a lot, but just seeing the amount of half efforts he put in yesterday was appalling. We know what's he's like at his best, but he's just weak ATM.

 

[Kbroome]

Not really sure what to do with Lloyd because if he is just cooked then dropping him doesn't really move the needle much. He probably ends up stuck in the VFL because he's not suddenly going to turn back the clock at the lower level if his body won't allow it. Then we just end up one senior player short while guys like Florent & McInerney, who we need to be good players over the next 5 years, continue on their way being average.

I'd prefer us play the long game and use the selection axe for something meaningful and productive. Sending a player to the reserves who could actually improve as a player by working on their craft at the lower level and coming back better for it. I'd take that short-term sacrifice if it spares us another 4-5 years of frustration with Florent, McInerney etc.

The thing is I actually think Lloyd as you say isn't able to play the style of footy because his decision making is gone now. Think him out of the side will actually improve others as there will be more of a willingness to move the ball quickly. I think if we are able to do that JMac will improve and also if you take out Lloyd means Florent gets more wing time and less non physical defenders in the backline

 

[caesar88]

The thing is I actually think Lloyd as you say isn't able to play the style of footy because his decision making is gone now. Think him out of the side will actually improve others as there will be more of a willingness to move the ball quickly. I think if we are able to do that JMac will improve and also if you take out Lloyd means Florent gets more wing time and less non physical defenders in the backline

You might be right, but I just think on current form Lloyd is on borrowed time anyway once players start returning from injury (if that ever happens...) I feel like we've moved Florent around a lot for example and he's never really changed his trajectory, so not sure I see him lifting just because we've dropped Lloyd. It might take something more drastic to get that lift out of him.