Autopsy 8 point loss to Port

[Dubai Quacker]

We are 14th.

We are below Carlton.

With Suns (away) & GWS to come.

We are likely to be 2-6, at which point the media will be hammering Cox & it’s kinda crisis time.

Something needs to change & simply dropping Hanily won’t achieve it.

But that is exactly what’ll happen.

 

[Kbroome]

Sorry Kb, what massive coping mechanism are you referring to?

Your just just being lazy and saying that this team is all fine as long as we are efficient and we don't need a major ball winner in our side to be competing with the best.

HELLO... Look at Brisbane with Neale McCluggage and Dunks

Look at Collingwood with Nick Daicos even Josh Daicos

Look at GWS with Green Whitfield Callaghan

Look at Geelong with Bailey Smith and Max Holmes

Look at Adelaide with Soligo Crouch Dawson Laird

Look at Gold Coast with Anderson Rowell Miller.


Sydney are the second lowest team for individual highest average possession winner at 24 per game in Roberts


Just checked another stat and for midfield classified players we have the lowest team for highest average possesion winner at 22.3 in Heeney

 

[Kbroome]

It sucks because I feel like without injuries we are probably 4-2 but instead we are sitting at 2-4 and looking very weak. One of the only positives is surely the big boys start returning and we get a semblance of a spine for the back 6-8 games of the year

 

[mcs095]

Agree I mean hate to say it but woukd Amartey have missed even half of those this is my issue with McLean he’ll likely kick the impossible yet miss a sitter next one, and bit jeez how many marks did he miss including an uncontested one in the last two mins in the square!

That late one almost made me cry..... I have some sympathy as with the pack of players around, he probably didn't expect it to get to him. but still - if there was one moment to sum it all up, that was it.

How the **** we only lost that by 8 points. We were horrendous but we all know the level we need to be at. Yet we were still only 8 points off. A bit short of it at the moment. If we can go up a level we'd be at the pointy end.

The odd bit is we only lost by 8, but it felt like a game we could have lost by 40 and said 'yep that's fair enough', or we could have won by 30 and said 'we did enough for that margin of victory' haha.

Agree it's dumb

Trying different things is perfectly fine. But repeating the experiment time and time and time again when it is not working, and is clearly as day to almost everyone that it is not working is dumb.

When a performance makes Aaron Francis look like a demigod when he comes on as a sub, you should recognise that maybe the experiment is a stupid idea. And that is no shot at Francis - he was terrific when he came on today. But he has never been more than a fringe AFL player to this point. But he can lead to a ball and mark on the lead - something McCartin as a forward seemingly has no idea how to do so.

 

[Kbroome]

I would suggest not looking at any of the efficiency stats. For a team lauded on their efficiency even bloody North Melbourne is safer by foot than us

 

[The King!]

That late one almost made me cry..... I have some sympathy as with the pack of players around, he probably didn't expect it to get to him. but still - if there was one moment to sum it all up, that was it.


The odd bit is we only lost by 8, but it felt like a game we could have lost by 40 and said 'yep that's fair enough', or we could have won by 30 and said 'we did enough for that margin of victory' haha.



Trying different things is perfectly fine. But repeating the experiment time and time and time again when it is not working, and is clearly as day to almost everyone that it is not working is dumb.

When a performance makes Aaron Francis look like a demigod when he comes on as a sub, you should recognise that maybe the experiment is a stupid idea. And that is no shot at Francis - he was terrific when he came on today. But he has never been more than a fringe AFL player to this point. But he can lead to a ball and mark on the lead - something McCartin as a forward seemingly has no idea how to do so.

I didn't mind Mccartin at first being forward but the last month showed he is a defender and we need him there , made no sense today to go back .

 

[mcs095]

I didn't mind Mccartin at first being forward but the last month showed he is a defender and we need him there , made no sense today to go back .

Completely agree. I've said it elsewhere, but we need to get back to the Keep It Simple Stupid principle - get players back where they are best, and fill the gaps elsewhere, not consistently try to shuffle and weaken other parts of the team on the off chance of getting it right.

 

[The King!]

10 out of first 14 last year we scored 100 plus including 98 against GWS when it rained , cost us really. won 13 lost 1.

Then we lost to Freo and scored 100 plus only 3 out of 18 since (twice against North) won 8 lost 10 (beaten North twice ).


Score more

****en napkin

 

[Callipygian]

I don't think Logan should be rushed back. He looks like he needs time to build his match fitness and reserves is the way to go for him.

I don't think selecting Sheldrick while he is so out of form is a good plan.

With so many players injured there isn't a lot of depth left. However, I'm thinking with the juggling of talls the best way to go may be to play McCartin down back, play Francis forward and recall Ladhams at Hamling's expense. I think once McCartin plays in defence there is no need for Hamling. The question then becomes who can impact the most as a tall forward. I don't think Ladhams offers a huge amount as a forward but he allows McLean to focus solely on playing forward and is able to bring the ball to ground, and he can double team with Grundy to give Witts a torrid time. And after tonight Francis looks like he offers more playing forward than Hamling.

If we drop Hanily, I'd probably recall Paton ahead of Sheldrick or anyone else.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

61 inside 50's for 10.17

!!!

 

[Kbroome]

I don't think Logan should be rushed back. He looks like he needs time to build his match fitness and reserves is the way to go for him.

I don't think selecting Sheldrick while he is so out of form is a good plan.

With so many players injured there isn't a lot of depth left. However, I'm thinking with the juggling of talls the best way to go may be to play McCartin down back, play Francis forward and recall Ladhams at Hamling's expense. I think once McCartin plays in defence there is no need for Hamling. The question then becomes who can impact the most as a tall forward. I don't think Ladhams offers a huge amount as a forward but he allows McLean to focus solely on playing forward and is able to bring the ball to ground, and he can double team with Grundy to give Witts a torrid time. And after tonight Francis looks like he offers more playing forward than Hamling.

If we drop Hanily, I'd probably recall Paton ahead of Sheldrick or anyone else.

Honestly think its time to send a message. Drop Rampe for horrific form and keep in Hamling and put McCartin into the backline. Need to drop Lloyd but honestly don't know who to as there isn't a good winger/small forward to bring in tbh.

Problem is we have a failing set of Wingers/Small forwards atm

Lloyd, Florent, Campbell, JMac, Hanily, Warner, Cleary

 

[Jack2Jack]

Cox's response at selection will say a bit.
Like, if he's genuine in what he's saying he can't be accepting some of the tackling that the oppo just bounces off. There's a few flankers who's stat lines look nice on paper, but some of their tackling (among other things) was weak as. Only 42 tackles today, poor effort given we were chasing a lead all game.

Will he make a call on a flanker/senior player to set a standard or just do the safe thing (the only thing we've been doing at selection for the last 3 years) and just drop juniors ?

The other selection call is what he does ahead of the ball, as bar the North game the forward line has functioned poorly all year.
Francis will (deservingly after that performance) play forward with McLean second ruck, but it's time to bring in one of the actual key forwards on the list as the other tall. McCartin got absolutely flogged by Esava of all ppl, Buller or an underdone McDonald will not be worse, they could still be poor but, it was that bad a showing as a KF, it's not actually possible they're worse......
.......he could try a smaller setup which might have merit, but had that today and it didn't look any better, infact it only looked good when the extra tall Francis came on. Our smalls don't tackle so the 3rd tall is probably more useful to us.

However, if Cox goes to the McCartin well again or brings back Ladhams (despite playing well in the twos) for a ineffective 3 ruck structure it would certainly raise an eyebrow and have a few questions needing to be asked.

There's some logic why it's been like that until now, but no excuses or reasons to continue down those roads, because (unless there's another injury during the week) Amartey the only KP player not available for selection now.

 

[Callipygian]

Honestly think its time to send a message. Drop Rampe for horrific form and keep in Hamling and put McCartin into the backline. Need to drop Lloyd but honestly don't know who to as there isn't a good winger/small forward to bring in tbh.

Problem is we have a failing set of Wingers/Small forwards atm

Lloyd, Florent, Campbell, JMac, Hanily, Warner, Cleary

I thought Rampe was ok on a night when it was hard to find anyone who played well. Why do you say his form is horrific? Clearly he's not what he was but he's still serviceable and sometimes good-excellent plus he is a fantastic leader and marshalls our whole defence.

 

[Kbroome]

I thought Rampe was ok on a night when it was hard to find anyone who played well. Why do you say his form is horrific? Clearly he's not what he was but he's still serviceable and sometimes good-excellent plus he is a fantastic leader and marshalls our whole defence.

Who was his matchup SPP or Rioli who kicked multiples respectively. He just can't play the role we need him to play anymore isn't athletic enough to cover smalls/mediums and isn't tall enough to cover the 3rd talls.

Think he could do a lot more helping to manage the development of Snell and Edwards in the twos tbh

 

[mcs095]

I thought Rampe was ok on a night when it was hard to find anyone who played well. Why do you say his form is horrific? Clearly he's not what he was but he's still serviceable and sometimes good-excellent plus he is a fantastic leader and marshalls our whole defence.

Yeh I don't think Rampe's form is bad. The issue is he is slowing down, and I don't think as good at covering off on some of his deficiencies as he once was - and is making more mistakes then he did previously. Not a criticism, just a sheer fact that the end is coming, and coming quickly. Still brings significant value to the team, and I think still part of the main 23, but maybe won't be come the end of the season either. That's the footy world - the end comes for all at some point.

 

[Mister B]

Watch Brisbane thursday they look shit, the team has to get back to basics and turn this around .

Amazing what a bit of work rate pressure and effort will do, need to do the basics

The concern I have is that the work rate wasn't there against Collingwood. We would have or should have spoke about that during the week and today was the response the players gave. That's pretty ****ed up and screams of players who don't give a shit.

 

[The King!]

The concern I have is that the work rate wasn't there against Collingwood. We would have or should have spoke about that during the week and today was the response the players gave. That's pretty ****ed up and screams of players who don't give a shit.

Port scored in the first 20 seconds of the third and fourth quarter

First goal,early of the other two, Cox must not be giving Ted Lasso style inspiration in the breaks let alone during the week hey

 

[Jack2Jack]

Seeing some of the 'highlights', It would be good to know where the ****ing desire to tackle and defend from the playing group has gone.
22 OF and Prelim they tackled and pressured like their lives depended on it, Round 1 last year we absolutely hunted Collingwood (and other sides during the 13-1 stretch).
Tackling doesn't even require talent, but we efforts now are so weak...so many reaching tackles. Opposition players just walk through tackles and out of stoppages at times.
I can't get over some of the defending efforts since mid last year, like where have the standards gone? It' like we've accepted being hunted and don't even try and go after the opposition anymore. Despite all the other issues, and there are a few, if we tackled with some actual vigour we'd be 4-2 not 2-4....it's literally that simple at times.

I mean we've just drafted flankers non stop to the point we barely have any genuine mids on the list, so we're not going to be the greatest tackle side but there's no excuse to be as poor as we are, most these very same players could tackle 2 years ago when they were even skinnier.

 

[caesar88]

Haven't read this thread yet so I'm taking a wild leap of faith that what I'm about to post will not make me look like too much of a dingus.

I didn't mind that performance. I feel like so far this year it's been the opposite to last - where in 2024 I thought we were heading in the wrong direction despite the wins, this year I think we're heading in the right direction despite the losses.

When we have looked at our best and most competitive this year, it has not been through flashy stuff or exciting ball movement, but from our intensity, from physical efforts and defensive lifts. Of course this team still seems to be capable of doing so only in short bursts, and it often leads to us failing to capitalise on those bursts whereas in previous years we'd pile on goals in those bursts because it'd be built on all-out attack. But in my opinion it's absolutely a necessary exorcism we have to go through to become a harder, tougher team to play against.

The proof, IMO, is in the pudding. We've seen games like today and last week before. The games where we get smacked in the contest and look all out of sorts and have stretches of horrible defensive intent and butcher the ball. They typically led to beltings to the tune of 50+ points. That three of our losses so far have been very winnable and the other was a far-from-humiliating defeat to Collingwood I think shows that there's merit in this approach from Cox & co, even if it's not showing in the wins & losses columns. We're keeping at it, and if it eventually clicks, then we'll be better for it.

I liked Francis forward, though I'm always dubious about sub performances. He did all you could ask of him, and then some. Overall I thought Rowy was probably our best across the four quarters, he competed hard and good things happened nearly every time he was involved. Wicks was great, mixing fierce defensive acts with some nice moments taking the game on. Hayward had a nice cameo in the third, and though it's tempting to look at his other three quarters as disappointing, he impacted the game still, and in his role that's all you can ask. Interesting games from McLean, Blakey & Heeney, all of whom I thought were as bad as they were good.

Didn't really get the performances I wanted from the kids, but I'm liking Cleary getting involved. He does some nice things and doesn't look afraid to get a little creative.

The less said about my two favourites Sir Dane & Lloyd, the better.

Courage my soul,
And let us journey on
Though the night is dark,
It won't be very long

Edit: Just read this thread. Geez I'm gonna cop it.

 

[caesar88]

Leads the league for panic

 

[Coachs Helpline]

• Appalling skills cost us....this is the 2nd game we should have won but we defeated ourselves. The basic fundamentals that are killing us....but mostly it's the weak as piss tackling, nail some of those they don't kick some of the goals they do...the tackling standard is so sub par it's not funny, ball always still gets out to opposition.
• McCartin never again do I want to see him start forward, he isn't close to being one. Although a horrible decision (kick) he made as a defender may have cost us a game, after being under pressure by a horrible decision by Lloyd, who was put under pressure by a absolutely madness kick from Rampe....that's our down back leaders. Our Leadership in general is a problem, because, outside Heeney and maybe Grundy/Rowbottom, it's our leaders who are generally responsible for a lot of our simple **** ups.
• That listless timid 1st qtr and a half torched us, similar to the trend of late last year, we have to fall too far behind to actually start playing football. It's conservative crap chip ball until then.
• Roberts & Lloyd make a lot of simple mistakes trying to be clean and safe. The both of them together in the side stifle us at times. There's a real decision Cox needs to make there, it's a one or the other in the side situation. Can't have two players coming off the back and wings playing the same game as they do.
• Grundy was the only winner the whole day. Francis when he came on was great and actually gave us some ****ing movement up forward - not sure how he'll go there week in, week out but looks a hell of a lot more likely as a forward than a McCartin/Hamling.
• There were another group that were ok / had cameo moments - Heeney lifted massively late. Bice, Rowbottom solid. Blakey was ok, but his 2nd qtr misses were killers. McLean had an almost day, could've been a hero, played ok generally but ultimately you can't be missing some of the goals he did. Everyone outside of that group were pretty poor.

Grundy was the only winner the whole day ??????????? Grundy and his stupid tap to ground …sorry ….. tap to the opposition is just giving opposition teams advantage after advantage… he just keeps on helping opposition teams…..I couldnt be bothered watching even to end of 2nd quarter. Just a sorry team this year. Or maybe its also just a dud coach. and poor player selection… unwillingness to drop dead wood players to remind them if they want to be in the team they need to play to a higher standard. Dont think Ill bother watching for the rest of the season… Sadly time to support…GWS ??

 

[Kbroome]

Grundy was the only winner the whole day ??????????? Grundy and his stupid tap to ground …sorry ….. tap to the opposition is just giving opposition teams advantage after advantage… he just keeps on helping opposition teams…..I couldnt be bothered watching even to end of 2nd quarter. Just a sorry team this year. Or maybe its also just a dud coach. and poor player selection… unwillingness to drop dead wood players to remind them if they want to be in the team they need to play to a higher standard. Dont think Ill bother watching for the rest of the season… Sadly time to support…GWS ??

Saying Grundy had a bad game when he literally beat Sweet in every statistic bar hit outs, DE and SI's. You talk that Grundy just hit it to the opposition but the stats suggest that Sweet did that more so than Grundy with more HIs but less to advantage.

Your a rookie so i'll give you a little slack but Grundy has been one of our best post bye


Last 3 games Brodie Grundy is the highest rated ruckman in the comp

 

[melbournehammer]

Saying Grundy had a bad game when he literally beat Sweet in every statistic bar hit outs, DE and SI's. You talk that Grundy just hit it to the opposition but the stats suggest that Sweet did that more so than Grundy with more HIs but less to advantage.

Your a rookie so i'll give you a little slack but Grundy has been one of our best post bye


Last 3 games Brodie Grundy is the highest rated ruckman in the comp

Forgive me but does that show for grundys 20+ possessions he had less metres gained than Jordan sweet ?

From what I have seen in the last two weeks he is playing the extra midfielder but getting in the way.
Last year at the grinning of the year he made numerous tackles and was a major help as an added midfielder defensively. This year he seems less able to do this but is more involved offensively - which I don’t think helps

 

[Kbroome]

Forgive me but does that show for grundys 20+ possessions he had less metres gained than Jordan sweet ?

From what I have seen in the last two weeks he is playing the extra midfielder but getting in the way.
Last year at the grinning of the year he made numerous tackles and was a major help as an added midfielder defensively. This year he seems less able to do this but is more involved offensively - which I don’t think helps

Triple the clearances alongside having so many more handballs could easily just be Sweet having less backwards handballs or more of his kicks from a mark/FK. Don't think 50 odd meteres is as different as say 150-200

Grundy also had 67 Ruck Contests to Sweets 78 which shows he was better in like 16% less ruck time

 

[melbournehammer]

Kane Cornes slammed the Mccartin move

To be honest his hot takes are usually very wrong especially when they involve port.

I get the mccartin move tbh. Our forwards are unreliable. Since Reid’s injury against Collingwood in 2022 we haven’t had anyone who can mark the ball forward of centre from outlet kicks. Mccartin does seem to mark the ball well in the backline. Let’s see whether he will be the messiah.

The downside is that he has shown himself to be a lot like Rory lobb. He is a bog average forward who can’t kick straight anyway. But as a defender he can mark it which no one else seems willing to do (I’m still upset about melican spoiling against hawthorn ffs) and teams by and large have no fear bombing it into our defensive fifty because they know georgiadis or Cameron. Or meek or whoever will bring the ball to ground because we have no decent tall defenders anyway.

He has to play back or we have to have the best half back flankers and wingers in the league because the ball is hitting the ground all the time and teams are just roving goals from ten metres out from soft drops and soft spoils every game