Play Nice As the AFL crows, rugby league works quietly on Indigenous excellence

Pippen94

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I am not an RL troll but let's be fair here, while plenty of supporters didn't boo him for racist reasons, plenty of them did. There are a hell of a lot of people in this country who just can't stand seeing a black man be vocal about their treatment and demand change, because those people feel threatened or attacked by it.

This isn't specific to Aussie Rules of course, it's just as prevalent in RL as has been pointed out earlier with the response by fans to Walker and Addo Carr refusing to sing the anthem, among other examples. It's a national issue.
Wrong. Being played in only Australia has made the sport untouched by outside influence & anglo centric. Those with different cultural backgrounds struggle for acceptance. The forcing out of a player in Adam Goodes is unprecedented in modern sport & could only happen in this insular environment.
 

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Pippen94

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So, apart from taking 52 years to get an indigenous Australian rep (despite claims it "was always a Koori game", in contrast to an indigenous player being named in the first Australian Football All-Australian side in 1956 and also partaking in the first actual tour to Ireland and USA in 1968, the remarkable thing is that the indigenous participation in NRL is only about the same as the AFL, despite the fact that almost two thirds of indigenous are in NSW and Qld, and Victoria has a relatively tiny indigenous population.

Really, the NRL should have twice the rate of AFL indigenous players or even more given the NSW/Qld populations and the fact that many AFL indigenous players are sourced from very remote locations in NT and WA. They obviously need to do a whole lot more, like the AFL has done, to remove the barriers they seem to have put in the way of elite level indigenous participation.
Koori people are indigenous to approximately NSW and victoria. The Koori Knockout Rugby League competition is the biggest annual event for the Koori community drawing over 30,000 people.
 

Johnny Bananas

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Oh wow, that sure is conclusive :rolleyes:

The forcing out of a player in Adam Goodes is unprecedented in modern sport & could only happen in this insular environment.
I think it's important to deal with reality instead of pursuing an agenda for or against the game. Reality is that Goodes chose to retire, he was 35 years old, had played 372 games and most people retire by that age anyway. Saying he was "forced out" is a gross distortion of reality.
 

Sttew

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Wrong. Being played in only Australia has made the sport untouched by outside influence & anglo centric. Those with different cultural backgrounds struggle for acceptance. The forcing out of a player in Adam Goodes is unprecedented in modern sport & could only happen in this insular environment.
Why the hell are you on a discussion board for AFL? You are nothing but an NRL Troll as evidenced by your revisionist anti-AFL garbage
 

RussellEbertHandball

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Oh wow, that sure is conclusive :rolleyes:


I think it's important to deal with reality instead of pursuing an agenda for or against the game. Reality is that Goodes chose to retire, he was 35 years old, had played 372 games and most people retire by that age anyway. Saying he was "forced out" is a gross distortion of reality.
Goodes got 1 brownlow vote in 2015, 0 in 2014, 4 in 2013 where only played 12 games and missed the 2nd half of the year with a posterior cruciate ligament injury - after dominating brownlow voting for most of the 10 previous seasons.
https://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/A/Adam_Goodes.html

Does that make the umpires racist or just realistic that he was at the end of his career and wasn't much chop and wasn't playing that well???
 

BringBackTorps

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I am trying to verify if Tom Banks was the FIRST dark-skinned man to be made a delegate of a sport's national governing body in Australia- the Australian National Football Council; or any (white) non-sporting organisation's national governing body in Australia.

He was the First dark-skinned man to be made a Life Member of a sport's national governing body in Australia; &, possibly, a Life Member of any (white) national, non-sporting governing body in Australia. (See google books link below, pgs 14 & 15)

He was, possibly, the FIRST dark-skinned man in the (white) world to be made a delegate and/or Life Member of any sport's (white) national governing body; or, possibly, any (white), non-sporting organisation's national governing body in the (white) world.

Tom Banks was also Fitzroy Chairman Of Selectors (as well as a Fitzroy Life Member & VFL Life Member).

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=zu305oUYP5kC&pg=PA12&lpg=PA12&dq=thomas+banks+fitzroy+aboriginal+vfa&source=bl&ots=sZGfAU6qqs&sig=ACfU3U299A2tyVXoxY75wSQg5L_sLidwZQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi-kbGt0-3iAhVBfH0KHZ4eAQoQ6AEw

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_National_Football_Council

History has not properly recognised the profound & unique role of Thomas Banks (son of an escaped African American slave). When his coffin was brought to Fitzroy's Brunswick St Oval club rooms, hundreds of Australian Football players (plus others) came to the clubrooms for the celebratory wake.
Australian Football has been deficient in properly recording, disseminating, & promoting its history. The AFL & State Leagues have been very remiss. AF has much to be very proud of & commemorate.

Furthermore, Aboriginal Joe Johnson, in 1907 for Brunswick in the VFA, was, probably, the FIRST dark-skinned man anywhere in the WORLD to Captain & Coach an elite sporting team of whites (see post # 62)

Re the assertions I have been making in this Thread (posts # 39,62,74 & here) about many firsts for Thomas "Darky" Banks & Joe Johnson, I am not aware of any other public, written similar claims being made about their historical significance.
 
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TheSunGod

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So what about the current booing of Gary Abblett is that also racist?

A hell of a lot of football supporters just didnt like Adam Goodes as a footballer and booed him for that nothing about it being racist.
Everyone knows Gaz was booed because he is white ;) and bald!!! Known as Accountantism amongst the persecuted fiscalopalian minority.
 

Professor Knowall

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... Being played in only Australia has made the sport untouched by outside influence & anglo centric. Those with different cultural backgrounds struggle for acceptance. ...
Oh good lord – I know this ridiculous post was made in full troll mode, (could he seriously believe that Australian Football be so immensely popular in multi-cultural Melbourne (and beyond) if it was merely an Anglo centric game?), but just to set the record straight, here goes -

I assume this poster has never gone to a Carlton v Collingwood game (in fact has probably never gone to any Australian Football game) and so wouldn't know that the vast majority of the tens of thousands that attend this great rivalry have Italian (mostly Carlton) or Greek (mostly Collingwood) heritage, with Anglos very much a minority. Same with the Bulldogs and North supporter bases and also ignores the many thousands of Asian and increasing numbers of African and Middle Eastern supporters – and no wonder as the AFL now has a number of players of African, Asian and Middle Eastern origin players, to add to the rich milieu of players that have long adorned the game from various lands and cultures.

There is no more revered family dynasty at the Collingwood football club than the Greek Pannam (aka Pannampoulos) family, starting from 1894. For Melbourne it’s the Barassi (father and son) from the 1930’s, for Carlton the still ongoing Silvagni’s from the 1960’s, the Schimmelbusch’s at North from the 1970’s. I could go on and on, but the point is made – Australian Football is for all and not Anglo Centric (the Irish in particular would instantly dismiss this silly notion).

Here’s a list (not quite up to date e.g. it‘s missing some newer Collingwood players of Africa and Fijian heritage) showing the diverse origins of AFL players - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_VFL/AFL_players_with_international_backgrounds
 

Pippen94

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Oh good lord – I know this ridiculous post was made in full troll mode, (could he seriously believe that Australian Football be so immensely popular in multi-cultural Melbourne (and beyond) if it was merely an Anglo centric game?), but just to set the record straight, here goes -

I assume this poster has never gone to a Carlton v Collingwood game (in fact has probably never gone to any Australian Football game) and so wouldn't know that the vast majority of the tens of thousands that attend this great rivalry have Italian (mostly Carlton) or Greek (mostly Collingwood) heritage, with Anglos very much a minority. Same with the Bulldogs and North supporter bases and also ignores the many thousands of Asian and increasing numbers of African and Middle Eastern supporters – and no wonder as the AFL now has a number of players of African, Asian and Middle Eastern origin players, to add to the rich milieu of players that have long adorned the game from various lands and cultures.

There is no more revered family dynasty at the Collingwood football club than the Greek Pannam (aka Pannampoulos) family, starting from 1894. For Melbourne it’s the Barassi (father and son) from the 1930’s, for Carlton the still ongoing Silvagni’s from the 1960’s, the Schimmelbusch’s at North from the 1970’s. I could go on and on, but the point is made – Australian Football is for all and not Anglo Centric (the Irish in particular would instantly dismiss this silly notion).

Here’s a list (not quite up to date e.g. it‘s missing some newer Collingwood players of Africa and Fijian heritage) showing the diverse origins of AFL players - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_VFL/AFL_players_with_international_backgrounds
Around 90% of players have names that are Anglo-Saxon or Celtic - far higher than any other code.
 

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BringBackTorps

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Roy Morgan polls have revealed that AFL fans born overseas represent a good % of total AFL attendees.
Furthermore, there are many more fans born overseas attending AFL matches, than overseas born fans attending A League matches.
 

Pippen94

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Roy Morgan polls have revealed that AFL fans born overseas represent a good % of total AFL attendees.
Furthermore, there are many more fans born overseas attending AFL matches, than overseas born fans attending A League matches.
Way to spin stats. More people attend than A league - percentage born overseas would be lower tho.
 

NoobPie

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Way to spin stats. More people attend than A league - percentage born overseas would be lower tho.
The solution is simple then - we need to get tens of thousands of 2nd plus generation australians of Anglo Celtic and southern European backgrounds to stop going so the % of Australians born over seas increases!

We truly have a live one here
 

Gigantor

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Roy Morgan polls have revealed that AFL fans born overseas represent a good % of total AFL attendees.
Furthermore, there are many more fans born overseas attending AFL matches, than overseas born fans attending A League matches.
Correct
 

Pippen94

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3% of players born overseas compared with 28% of the general population of Australia. 15% with parents born overseas compared to 49%. I win argument.
 

BringBackTorps

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Way to spin stats. More people attend than A league - percentage born overseas would be lower tho.
The many overseas born AFL attendees (c. 7,500,00 fans in total attend annually the AFL- why don't your English games, which should benefit from the record recent immigration levels, attract remotely similar good crowds in Australia?) obviously don't share your absurd/trolling claims.

Despite several requests for you to answer my questions to you in my posts # 39, 49, & 62, you have failed to do so- you have not even responded to these. This, alone, clearly reveals you are trolling in your attempts to smear AF fans as racists, as you are unable to mount a logical "argument". C. 180,000,000+ fans have attended the AFL since 1980, the % of racist incidents is infintisimal.

Your English (ie RU, RL, & soccer) early First Grade games played in Australia, cf early First Grade AF, has a very poor record in recruiting Aboriginal/dark-skinned/Asian players.

I have demonstrated in posts # 62,74, & 81, AF has numerous Australian -firsts, & WORLD -FIRSTS re early recruitment of First Grade Aboriginal & dark-skinned players/coaches/AF Organisation Delegates/Life Members.
 

Pippen94

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The many overseas born AFL attendees (c. 7,500,00 fans in total attend annually the AFL- why don't your English games, which should benefit from the record recent immigration levels, attract remotely similar good crowds in Australia?) obviously don't share your absurd/trolling claims.

Despite several requests for you to answer my questions to you in my posts # 39, 49, & 62, you have failed to do so- you have not even responded to these. This, alone, clearly reveals you are trolling in your attempts to smear AF fans as racists, as you are unable to mount a logical "argument". C. 180,000,000+ fans have attended the AFL since 1980, the % of racist incidents is infintisimal.

Your English (ie RU, RL, & soccer) early First Grade games played in Australia, cf early First Grade AF, has a very poor record in recruiting Aboriginal/dark-skinned/Asian players.

I have demonstrated in posts # 62,74, & 81, AF has numerous Australian -firsts, & WORLD -FIRSTS re early recruitment of First Grade Aboriginal & dark-skinned players/coaches/AF Organisation Delegates/Life Members.
Your comment that there are only a handful of racist incidents since 1980 is the most ignorant thing written here. In a 1992 players survey 36% had racially abused an opponent. Tony Shaw said: “I’d make a racist comment every week if I thought it would help win the game.” That's before mentioning abuse from crowd & press.
 

BringBackTorps

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Your comment that there are only a handful of racist incidents since 1980 is the most ignorant thing written here. In a 1992 players survey 36% had racially abused an opponent. Tony Shaw said: “I’d make a racist comment every week if I thought it would help win the game.” That's before mentioning abuse from crowd & press.
You are, again, cherrypicking & misrepresenting AF.
No one supports any player racially abusing another player. There are now very severe penalties in AF against racist abuse.
You are refusing to answer my questions. You are trying to smear AF as racist.

You are trolling- I think BF should not feed trolls.
 

HavUEvaSeenTheRain

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3% of players born overseas compared with 28% of the general population of Australia. 15% with parents born overseas compared to 49%. I win argument.
Nice but every football fan knows unlike other sporting codes no migrant comes from a Football background. Instead they are familiar with soccer, league or Rugby so considering that, 3% of AFL players from 28% of the population is completely expected.
Second generation Australian’s make up 21% of the population and 15% of AFL players. It’s obvious once people assimilate they embrace the sport. One generation and you see about a 600% increase.
Considering the much larger Indian/Asian population’s now it is no surprise that the first/second generation percentage of AFL players isn’t higher considering it’s pretty much the complete opposite situation as League and Islanders where their genetic makeup gives them a huge physical advantage in league.
Take out Islander’s and i’d Imagine League has a much lower percentage.

So I think your argument is wrong because you are adding first and second generation Australian’s into one statistic to come up with 49%. When really combined they make up 49% not just second generation.
It’s clear as mud, second generation Australian’s are AFL football fans as much as just about anyone
 

Professor Knowall

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The true percentage is 4% born overseas, for in addition to these 2018 numbers -


- there's also 6 new Irish recruits this year plus whatever was picked up in the draft (2019 figures not yet updated), thus there's over 30 overseas born players, quite remarkable given that every one of these came from a non Australian Football background. Also note the much larger number of second generation players.

The multi-cultural following of Australian Football is also obvious to anyone attending a game, especially in Melbourne. Obviously there's one person in this thread who hasn't had that pleasure.

Getting back to the original topic, here's the latest numbers for AFL indigenous players -


No surprise that the vast majority are from WA, NT and SA - many from remote regions. There are only 5 from Victoria, reflecting the very small Victorian indigenous population (thus easily explaining the low VFL numbers up the 1970's when relatively few players were recruited from interstate).

The real interesting surprise is the very high number - 19 - from NSW/Qld. It seems they didn't get the message that rugby league "has always been their game". That's because Australian Football has always been the game of choice for most indigenous Australians.
 

Pippen94

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The true percentage is 4% born overseas, for in addition to these 2018 numbers -


- there's also 6 new Irish recruits this year plus whatever was picked up in the draft (2019 figures not yet updated), thus there's over 30 overseas born players, quite remarkable given that every one of these came from a non Australian Football background. Also note the much larger number of second generation players.

The multi-cultural following of Australian Football is also obvious to anyone attending a game, especially in Melbourne. Obviously there's one person in this thread who hasn't had that pleasure.

Getting back to the original topic, here's the latest numbers for AFL indigenous players -


No surprise that the vast majority are from WA, NT and SA - many from remote regions. There are only 5 from Victoria, reflecting the very small Victorian indigenous population (thus easily explaining the low VFL numbers up the 1970's when relatively few players were recruited from interstate).

The real interesting surprise is the very high number - 19 - from NSW/Qld. It seems they didn't get the message that rugby league "has always been their game". That's because Australian Football has always been the game of choice for most indigenous Australians.
Classic bubble mentality. Koori Knockout in NSW draws 30,000 people & features 140 teams. In Queensland the Murri Carnivals have attendance of 20,000 & feature 1800 players.
 

Pippen94

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carnivals are nice, but doesnt change his point.
Point based on being clueless about what goes on elsewhere. Probably thinks game is now national sport of China.
For the record, Open Murri Carnival in Brendale this year is expected to be attended by 30,000.
 
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