Test AUSTRALIA v SOUTH AFRICA First Test. Dec 17-21, Gabba, Brisbane. 11.20am AEDT.

[Jim Prideaux]

Hopefully SA "tinker" (as Peter Sumich would say) with their batting line-up prior to the upcoming Boxing Day Test and we can all enjoy five solid days of test cricket!

They’ll need to do more than tinker I think, a page one re-write maybe.

I think they have the ability to put up a competitive total, just not sure if they can do it twice in a match - for my cricket watching time, which is sacred, I hope they do.

 

[MarcMaverick]

Hopefully SA "tinker" (as Peter Sumich would say) with their batting line-up prior to the upcoming Boxing Day Test and we can all enjoy five solid days of test cricket!

Weirdly the weather is going to be warmer in Melbourne than Brisbane. I think the curators were thinking that Brissy's weather would be warmer than the mid to high 20s in order to dry the pitch. I reckon that even if it went the distance, it wouldn't be hot enough.

 

[Around the Wicket]

If the bowlers can make the leather talk on roads than why can't the batsmen make the willow talk on lively pitches?

Bowlers cant do anything on roads, did you watch Australia v Pakistan series in Pakistan? LMAO

 

[MarcMaverick]

Bowlers cant do anything on roads, did you watch Australia v Pakistan series in Pakistan? LMAO

Well it TPTB allowed more frequent tours of Pakistan maybe it wouldn't be an issue.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Ironically, the one glaring dismissal for me that was due to the pitch was off Lyon - not a fast bowler. Bavuma's lbw. That ball spun a mile.

And you are spot on about the techniques.

Yeah forgot the Lyon one but really honestly it’s 1 out of let’s say 30 (our second innings was just blokes not caring).

 

[CakeEater]

Hopefully SA "tinker" (as Peter Sumich would say) with their batting line-up prior to the upcoming Boxing Day Test and we can all enjoy five solid days of test cricket!

How so?

 

[WaywardSonSon]

How so?

Sorry? I didn't hear you there Kath...

 

[footyfan1978]

Need a Royal Commission into how van der Dussen ever got to a role as a specialist bat in a Test team.

I not know much about him but he looked like a walking wicket to any Test standard bowler.

 

[Seedsfan]

Hopefully SA "tinker" (as Peter Sumich would say) with their batting line-up prior to the upcoming Boxing Day Test and we can all enjoy five solid days of test cricket!

It’s the worst batting line up on paper out of any of the regular test playing nations. So excluding Zimbabwe, Ireland and Afghanistan.

Especially after Brisbane there is no way so much grass will be left on the MCG pitch so spin will come into it.

Nortje and Rabada will open Jansen first change then Maharaj as the spin option. As they don’t have an all rounder and would want that 5th bowling option they could stick with the 4 quicks and go with Harmer over Maharaj as Harmer has the 2 FC 100s and maybe able to offer some more lower order batting

 

[WaywardSonSon]

Weirdly the weather is going to be warmer in Melbourne than Brisbane. I think the curators were thinking that Brissy's weather would be warmer than the mid to high 20s in order to dry the pitch. I reckon that even if it went the distance, it wouldn't be hot enough.

Get the heat lamps on it pronto! Haha

 

[Jim Prideaux]

It’s the worst batting line up on paper out of any of the regular test playing nations. So excluding Zimbabwe, Ireland and Afghanistan.

Especially after Brisbane there is no way so much grass will be left on the MCG pitch so spin will come into it.

Nortje and Rabada will open Jansen first change then Maharaj as the spin option. As they don’t have an all rounder and would want that 5th bowling option they could stick with the 4 quicks and go with Harmer over Maharaj as Harmer has the 2 FC 100s and maybe able to offer some more lower order batting

Let’s wait to see the MCG pitch I reckon. It certainly won’t be a Gabba green top, but I’m optimistic about it being good pitch with something for the bowlers - if it isn’t Australia will bat for days.

 

[Seedsfan]

Let’s wait to see the MCG pitch I reckon. It certainly won’t be a Gabba green top, but I’m optimistic about it being good pitch with something for the bowlers - if it isn’t Australia will bat for days.

Don’t think it will be a bad wicket. But they will look to give a bit more to the batsmen

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Need a Royal Commission into how van der Dussen ever got to a role as a specialist bat in a Test team.

I not know much about him but he looked like a walking wicket to any Test standard bowler.

He has some talent but he looks like a 5 not a 3. It’s like a lot of these SA bats they are way too high and Jansen at 7 is a complete laugh

 

[Jim Prideaux]

Don’t think it will be a bad wicket. But they will look to give a bit more to the batsmen

It would’ve always had a touch more, hopefully the curator has been left to his own devices.

 

[WaywardSonSon]

It’s the worst batting line up on paper out of any of the regular test playing nations. So excluding Zimbabwe, Ireland and Afghanistan.

Especially after Brisbane there is no way so much grass will be left on the MCG pitch so spin will come into it.

Nortje and Rabada will open Jansen first change then Maharaj as the spin option. As they don’t have an all rounder and would want that 5th bowling option they could stick with the 4 quicks and go with Harmer over Maharaj as Harmer has the 2 FC 100s and maybe able to offer some more lower order batting

Surely Elgar won't fail four times in sucession? To be fair, his last dismissal was pretty unavoidable, as Pat Cummins' bowls were seaming around corners off a good length. If he can make a century in one of their two batting innings, it will go a long way to galvanising the team.

 

[Jim Prideaux]

Surely Elgar won't fail four times in sucession? To be fair, his last dismissal was pretty unavoidable, as Pat Cummins' bowls were seaming around corners off a good length. If he can make a century in one of their two batting innings, it will go a long way to galvanising the team.

Listen, you’d think so. But he didn’t look comfortable at any point which is a worry.

 

[MarcMaverick]

Get the heat lamps on it pronto! Haha

Or a flamethrower.

 

[Seedsfan]

Surely Elgar won't fail four times in sucession? To be fair, his last dismissal was pretty unavoidable, as Pat Cummins' bowls were seaming around corners off a good length. If he can make a century in one of their two batting innings, it will go a long way to galvanising the team.

Well he has 9 innings here all up;

0(3)
0(4)
0(12)
2(4)
3(10)
5(17)
12(22)
17(61)
127(316)

 

[Gethelred]

I've watched cricket for a long time (not quite since the days of Ponsford, etc!) and the falling away of batting techniques has been sad to see.

One example - batsmen (sorry, batters!) seem to have lost the ability to defend a fast bowler with the bat close to the pad. How many times do we see them get bowled with a gap the size of the Grand Canyon between bat and pad? (Look at van der Dussen yesterday).

Another - batters seem to often forget to use a straight bat. How often do we see them play on from an angled bat?

The technical deficiencies of the modern batter - even the elite - are very pronounced. It's no wonder they are shown up on a pitch with a tiny bit of juice in it.

But, yeah, despite that, let's blame the pitch.

I think this is a little bit "they're not doing the things I like, so they're wrong" for me.

Coaching and the nature of the sport has changed. Far from there being less participants there are significantly more and there's also much more short form cricket than there used to be as a percentage of play. Defensive batting on the back foot isn't as valued on pitches where the bounce is regular and you're wearing a helmet, a chest guard, an arm guard, etc; I've bemoaned the state of back foot cricket in Australia for a while now myself, but the players at all levels can only adapt to the games in front of them.

For the better part of 30 years, the emphasis has been on using your wrists to push the ball either side of the fielder, with the idea being that the safest place to bat is at the non-striker's end; get off strike and you're safer than you would be blocking the ball. This is a different approach, not a worse one.

Now, I'm sorry that this has led you to bemoan the state of batting at all levels, but these conditions only come once in a blue moon. Of what value is the ability to bat on a surface like this when it'll happen once in 100 games? Better by far to practice sweeping or moving your feet to the pitch of the ball, strike rotation to a straight delivery, match sim involving hitting to deep fielders from good length or fuller bowling, power hitting because all of these will come up more often than the ability to play extremely variable bounce on a faster wicket on the back foot will.

We won the test. That those having a crack at the surface are exaggerating should go without saying - a number of them have a point to prove regarding Australian hypocrisy about pitch tampering which is not worth consideration really - but if we're going to talk about dangerous conditions I'm rather going to go with the batters who had to play on it over anyone else.

Sometimes, it's a little too easy having a crack from one's loungeroom.

 

[Jim Prideaux]

Well he has 9 innings here all up;

0(3)
0(4)
0(12)
2(4)
3(10)
5(17)
12(22)
17(61)
127(316)

He’s also averaging 30.6 from his last 10 without a century - he’s in a Warner like vein of form. In fact, his career is essentially Warner lite.

 

[WaywardSonSon]

Well he has 9 innings here all up;

0(3)
0(4)
0(12)
2(4)
3(10)
5(17)
12(22)
17(61)
127(316)

Dear lord that makes for sorry reading...
Well, I'm half filling my glass and saying he's due for something in the same vein as the last innings you've listed! Haha

 

[Jim Prideaux]

I think this is a little bit "they're not doing the things I like, so they're wrong" for me.

Coaching and the nature of the sport has changed. Far from there being less participants there are significantly more and there's also much more short form cricket than there used to be as a percentage of play. Defensive batting on the back foot isn't as valued on pitches where the bounce is regular and you're wearing a helmet, a chest guard, an arm guard, etc; I've bemoaned the state of back foot cricket in Australia for a while now myself, but the players at all levels can only adapt to the games in front of them.

For the better part of 30 years, the emphasis has been on using your wrists to push the ball either side of the fielder, with the idea being that the safest place to bat is at the non-striker's end; get off strike and you're safer than you would be blocking the ball. This is a different approach, not a worse one.

Now, I'm sorry that this has led you to bemoan the state of batting at all levels, but these conditions only come once in a blue moon. Of what value is the ability to bat on a surface like this when it'll happen once in 100 games? Better by far to practice sweeping or moving your feet to the pitch of the ball, strike rotation to a straight delivery, match sim involving hitting to deep fielders from good length or fuller bowling, power hitting because all of these will come up more often than the ability to play extremely variable bounce on a faster wicket on the back foot will.

We won the test. That those having a crack at the surface are exaggerating should go without saying - a number of them have a point to prove regarding Australian hypocrisy about pitch tampering which is not worth consideration really - but if we're going to talk about dangerous conditions I'm rather going to go with the batters who had to play on it over anyone else.

Sometimes, it's a little too easy having a crack from one's loungeroom.

Did any of the batters, apart from Elgar who has reason to stir the pot a bit, say it was dangerous? SS said it was the most difficult test pitch in Australia, which isn’t saying much.

I think too many are underestimating just how good some of the bowling and all of the fielding was - it was something to behold.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

That's wrong since many people have consistently said having roads is not a good pitch either. MCG was admonished for it years on end.

The point is that roads are prepared but because we get a result the curator gets away with it. Go and see how many results happen because of declarations, why do the commentators not say this is a disgraceful pitch when the side batting first is 3-350 at the end of day 1? The west Indies used a spinner for the 9th over in Adelaide on day 1 of the test, now we know they are not strong at the moment but seriously how in hell is a spinner being used in the 9th over of a test match? It's a road that is why, just because we get a result doesn't change what the pitch was.
Fast Bowling, Batting and spin Bowling should all be catered for by the pitch. What the broadcasters want is nothing for the fast bowlers as they will shorten the game.

 

[Rabish Binney]

I remember he was a long way off 100 when the 9th wicket fell and renowned #11 Terry Alderman came to the crease. Somehow Alderman lasted an hour or so, got Hughes to his ton and then promptly got out.

The other thing was that it was one of the most memorable finishes to a day you'd ever want to see.

Go to 3.30.

Agree 100%

Hughes has 2 of the best hundreds I've ever seen - that one at the MCG and his 117 in the 1980 Centenary test at Lords.

 

[sherb]

I think this is a little bit "they're not doing the things I like, so they're wrong" for me.

Coaching and the nature of the sport has changed. Far from there being less participants there are significantly more and there's also much more short form cricket than there used to be as a percentage of play. Defensive batting on the back foot isn't as valued on pitches where the bounce is regular and you're wearing a helmet, a chest guard, an arm guard, etc; I've bemoaned the state of back foot cricket in Australia for a while now myself, but the players at all levels can only adapt to the games in front of them.

For the better part of 30 years, the emphasis has been on using your wrists to push the ball either side of the fielder, with the idea being that the safest place to bat is at the non-striker's end; get off strike and you're safer than you would be blocking the ball. This is a different approach, not a worse one.

Now, I'm sorry that this has led you to bemoan the state of batting at all levels, but these conditions only come once in a blue moon. Of what value is the ability to bat on a surface like this when it'll happen once in 100 games? Better by far to practice sweeping or moving your feet to the pitch of the ball, strike rotation to a straight delivery, match sim involving hitting to deep fielders from good length or fuller bowling, power hitting because all of these will come up more often than the ability to play extremely variable bounce on a faster wicket on the back foot will.

We won the test. That those having a crack at the surface are exaggerating should go without saying - a number of them have a point to prove regarding Australian hypocrisy about pitch tampering which is not worth consideration really - but if we're going to talk about dangerous conditions I'm rather going to go with the batters who had to play on it over anyone else.

Sometimes, it's a little too easy having a crack from one's loungeroom.

Being coached to be able to bat in all conditions - rather than just favourable ones - doesn't just cover batting locally on the occasional testing pitch.

It gives you the tools to bat in the different conditions experienced overseas as well. Or have we all forgotten how totally at sea some of our batters have looked in English conditions in recent times?

I really don't see the point of teaching players how to bat on true surfaces only to be honest. Give them the tools to bat in all conditions. That's one thing that makes them elite players, the capacity to perform in varying conditions and situations and under varying levels of pressure.

And it also underpins one of the underlying foundations of batting, which is having a good defence - from there you can build a solid and extensive batting technique.

Bear in mind that knowing how to play the moving ball is essential as movement through the air isn't determined by pitch conditions (which can be controlled), rather by atmosphere (which can't be controlled).

I saw players in this match who were able to survive quite adequately on this supposed minefield. Head, Bavuma (twice), Verreynne, Smith, Zondo and even Carey, Green and Starc in our first innings.

I saw few dismissals which you could put down to the state of the pitch, either directly or indirectly. I didn't see any deliveries shoot along the ground or jump from a good length to nearly take the batsman's head off. I didn't see any more than moderate seam or swing that you wouldn't get in other Tests (check out Holder's dismissal in the last Test as a comparison).

The whole reaction is over the top and hysterical. If this had been like those Melbourne goat tracks of the 80s I'd understand the reaction, but this - nah.

As for the bolded, I don't know why this is suddenly a point worth raising when it is pretty much the entire basis of this site. Strange observation.