Best 22 Round 1 2023?

[weltschmerz]

I can't see Marra or Lobb working out as KPD prospects unfortunately. Still think Marra has a bit of development to do regarding his body and mental application and I just think Lobb doesn't have the athletic ability to cover a forward.

Bruce would be my pick, he's training there anyway. Buku can play as an effective third tall. Busslinger might be ready to debut by that stage. Darcy can be a good intercepting defender.

Moving Naughton out of the forward line to play a role he hasn't consistently played for years would be cutting off our nose to spite our face and absolutely shatter our scoring potential. We're not winning finals when we're not kicking goals.

 

[dogwatch]

Hypothetically... it's mid year. We're looking like a middling team again with an obvious weakness (KPD's). Do we throw Naughton back and hope Lobb, Bruce and Jamarra can get it done up forward?

No, not now. It's like arguing over whether we should go back to being called Footscray. That ship has sailed long ago.

No problem with chucking him back as an interceptor for the last 15 minutes in a game if we're hanging onto a 2 goal lead and we've just lost a KPD to injury, but not starting a game that way. We've rolled the dice on Naughton becoming a top forward and he has kicked 98.74 in his last two seasons. He is getting better at it each year. If he kicks a bit straighter he could easily be a 70 goal CHF. Most clubs would kill for one of those.

 

[bobs head soup]

I can't see Marra or Lobb working out as KPD prospects unfortunately. Still think Marra has a bit of development to do regarding his body and mental application and I just think Lobb doesn't have the athletic ability to cover a forward.

We've got Jones, Gardner, Keath, Bruce, Khamis, Darcy, OBrien, Cleary, Busslinger and Raak as tall defensive options. Pretty sure some combination of these can do a job before we need to raid the forwards.

 

[LondonBulldog]

Not with a full strength side. He might snag the 5th bench spot if we want the extra height, but I reckon he’s still a fair way off holding a best 22 position.

Sides a lot stronger than it was last year with injuries and poor form (backing us to lift our form). He’s behind all of Lobb, Naughts and Jamarra in the front half and with his lack of key defensive game, he’s behind all of Jones, Keath and Gards. I can’t see us playing 4 talls down back either as oppo smalls will have a field day.

I see a lot of VFL games unless injuries permit or his form demands a spot, which I still think is a little while off happening.

What are you basing that Keath is ahead of Darcy on? Are you talking about the Keath from 2 years ago. Last year when Darcy came in at CHB he took more intercept marks in 3 games than what Keath did for the year? Keath had a shocking year for us last year, although he has the potentially to turn it around.

For me, Darcy plays first game and form permitting should play the year. He is the future. I actually think with Jones in the team, who can take the larger key forward we may only go two Key Defenders and Bevo loves a quick running defense. That may squeeze Darcy out, yet I would love to see him stay in the side.

 

[Dazb86]

We've got Jones, Gardner, Keath, Bruce, Khamis, Darcy, OBrien, Cleary, Busslinger and Raak as tall defensive options. Pretty sure some combination of these can do a job before we need to raid the forwards.

That's fair I just don't see any of that group threatening to make the A.A squad. 3 of them are 30+. Of that 30+ group 2 looked cooked last year and the other was playing in the magoos up in Queensland.

The rest of the group hasn't shown much to date and O'Brien has got some work to do.

For mine it could go horribly wrong again pretty easily

 

[weltschmerz]

That's fair I just don't see any of that group threatening to make the A.A squad. 3 of them are 30+. Of that 30+ group 2 looked cooked last year and the other was playing in the magoos up in Queensland.

The rest of the group hasn't shown much to date and O'Brien has got some work to do.

For mine it could go horribly wrong again pretty easily

I don’t see Naughton making the AA group as a defender either. He hasn’t played there for more than a quarter or two at a time for years.

 

[bobs head soup]

That's fair I just don't see any of that group threatening to make the A.A squad. 3 of them are 30+. Of that 30+ group 2 looked cooked last year and the other was playing in the magoos up in Queensland.

The rest of the group hasn't shown much to date and O'Brien has got some work to do.

For mine it could go horribly wrong again pretty easily

Fair call bro. I do concede that every member of that group has a question mark over their head in one form or another.

I tend to be a glass half full type, but reckon there are genuine grounds for optimism on several;

• Keath was moving like a crab last year and just needs to get his body right. If he can get near his 2020/21 form then he's a lock.
• Jones was in career best form in 2021. 2022 was not injury related, so a year out of the big league should only be beneficial physically. By all accounts in ripping knick, see no reason why he's not gonna be at least a solid contributor and quite possibly our #1 option.
• Gardner was pretty good in 2022 with minimal support. As a late bloomer with 50 odd games experience, still has growth in him. By dropping back to the 3rd best forward, looks a reliable option for mine although no star.
• Darcy, Khamis and Cleary all showed glimmers in 2022 and are all still on the upward spiral. All have a pretty good shot at claiming a regular tall defenders position at some point through the year (if that's where they are played in Darcy and Khamis' case).

Not all of these will pan out as hoped, but we'd be stiff if at least 2/3 of them aren't showing enough to be solid options.

The others I see as long shots. Bruce has never shown much as a defender and his mobility may be an issue, OBrien has been too disappointing and Busslinger and Raak too green at this stage

Hopefully at some point at least these guys can do enough at Footscray to be viable depth options.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

What are you basing that Keath is ahead of Darcy on? Are you talking about the Keath from 2 years ago. Last year when Darcy came in at CHB he took more intercept marks in 3 games than what Keath did for the year? Keath had a shocking year for us last year, although he has the potentially to turn it around.

For me, Darcy plays first game and form permitting should play the year. He is the future. I actually think with Jones in the team, who can take the larger key forward we may only go two Key Defenders and Bevo loves a quick running defense. That may squeeze Darcy out, yet I would love to see him stay in the side.

I know we’re all excited about Darcy, but let’s not get too carried away LD.

Keath’s an established key position player at AFL level. Darcy’s played 3 games and is about 15kg’s off his ideal playing weight. Add to that he’s not a natural defenders a-hole. And having almost no accountability for an opposition player, I reckon either one of me or you could’ve tracked a few intercept marks in those games too. Don’t want to take too much away from his performances, but he was given a free pass by the coaches. And when he wasn’t, he was torched by his opponents on the lead and 1v1.

I think if Darcy’s playing every game in our defensive 50 this season, something has gone terribly wrong. He’s going to be a gun, but he’s a fair way off being a moral selection each week.

You’re right about him being the future. He’s not the present though.

 

[Dazb86]

Fair call bro. I do concede that every member of that group has a question mark over their head in one form or another.

I tend to be a glass half full type, but reckon there are genuine grounds for optimism on several;

• Keath was moving like a crab last year and just needs to get his body right. If he can get near his 2020/21 form then he's a lock.
• Jones was in career best form in 2021. 2022 was not injury related, so a year out of the big league should only be beneficial physically. By all accounts in ripping knick, see no reason why he's not gonna be at least a solid contributor and quite possibly our #1 option.
• Gardner was pretty good in 2022 with minimal support. As a late bloomer with 50 odd games experience, still has growth in him. By dropping back to the 3rd best forward, looks a reliable option for mine although no star.
• Darcy, Khamis and Cleary all showed glimmers in 2022 and are all still on the upward spiral. All have a pretty good shot at claiming a regular tall defenders position at some point through the year (if that's where they are played in Darcy and Khamis' case).

Not all of these will pan out as hoped, but we'd be stiff if at least 2/3 of them aren't showing enough to be solid options.

The others I see as long shots. Bruce has never shown much as a defender and his mobility may be an issue, OBrien has been too disappointing and Busslinger and Raak too green at this stage

Hopefully at some point at least these guys can do enough at Footscray to be viable depth options.

I'm hopeful too. Was just asking a 'what if' question about Naughton. I still think he'd be our best defender and a A.A possibility even without the training given that was where he played as a junior. He's also our best forward though so that complicates things

I think Jones will probably surprise a few during the year. He's the kind of player we've needed for a couple of years. Good one on one, great athletically and can take intercept marks when allowed a run and jump at the ball.

I quite like Gardner tbh. Has the pace and athleticism required and is ironing out the mistakes in his game. Kind of spewing Dale Morris is not at the club anymore. I feel like he'd be a perfect mentor for Gardner.

Re: Darcy I don't think he has the pace required to be an AFL KPD unless played as an unnaccountable defender like how Stewart is used at Geelong. I think he'll star as a KPF/2nd ruck option in the future though.

 

[doggies ftw]

So after preseason reports how do we think we’ll actually line up? Not what you want but what you expect.

Sounds like Baker & Hannan will play early, Hannan sounds like he’s had a ripper preseason - I’m not his biggest fan and especially with the 3 talls up front but admittedly if he can just find some consistency his best is pretty handy, I just think his sloppiness let’s us down and he doesn’t bring his best anywhere near enough personally but he’s obviously doing something right as the coaches seem to love him - sounds like he might be groomed for the open wing spot.

I suspect barring injuries we’ll line up something like this:

Doc Jones Keath
Dale Gardner Ed

Williams Libba Baz
English Bont Macrae

Treloar Naughty JJ
Cody Lobb Marra

Daniel, McLean, Baker, Hannan, Sub: West

I’d bring in West for Hannan and make probably Scott sub. Any of Hannan, VDM, Garcia, Scott, Buku, Bedendo, McNeil, Smith could realistically take the last couple of spots tho I assume Baker & Hannan will get first crack.

Big ifs but if Jones & Keath regain their best and Gardner, Dale, Ed, Daniel & Doc keep up a similar level honestly that backline is ridiculously strong on paper. So is the midfield and forward line.

This is honestly one of the best sides we’ve ever put out on paper if all goes well (it won’t Ofc ) only real weaknesses are the wings but there’s potential there. Just about finding the right mix in the role players/fill in spots too. No ******* around with the tactics just go back to the basics and let these blokes play footy and we’ll win way more often than not, it’s a bloody great line up.

Main takeaway I get from this compared to previous years of guessing our line up, these aren’t kids anymore. Marra aside every single player is either entering the sweet spot for age and experience, right in the middle of it and a few coming to the end of it (but not past it) it’s a far cry from some of the line ups we’ve put out based on potential - these guys are ready

 

[NthBondiDoggies]

Is a very different situation than previous years where most of the squad a years away from prime - looks very balanced for now and the future

You could probably break down the team as:

Primetime:

Bont, Macrae, Libba, Richards, Naughton, Dale, Daniel, McLean, Lobb, Jones and Roarke, Crozier

Downward: Keath, Bruce, Duryea, Trelor, JJ - all still good but best years behind them.

Upwards: English, Weightman, Jamarra, Gardner, West, Garcia, Williams and VDM (still learning)

Future stars: Darcy, Busslinger, Cleary, Buku, Clarke, Bedendo.

With this view we look currently challenged on the wings:

Roarke, Williams, Bedendo ?? Jones/VDM

Mid-tall defenders

Raak, TOB (Cleary probably not all enough? But is very good sober for Dale and Richards).

Mid-talls forward

Hannan, Buku

Young Mids - very little size and dominance/star power

West, García, McNeil

 

[weltschmerz]

Is a very different situation than previous years where most of the squad a years away from prime - looks very balanced for now and the future

You could probably break down the team as:

Primetime:

Bont, Macrae, Libba, Richards, Naughton, Dale, Daniel, McLean, Lobb, Jones and Roarke, Crozier

Downward: Keath, Bruce, Duryea, Trelor, JJ - all still good but best years behind them.

Upwards: English, Weightman, Jamarra, Gardner, West, Garcia, Williams and VDM (still learning)

Future stars: Darcy, Busslinger, Cleary, Buku, Clarke, Bedendo.

With this view we look currently challenged on the wings:

Roarke, Williams, Bedendo ?? Jones/VDM

Mid-tall defenders

Raak, TOB (Cleary probably not all enough? But is very good sober for Dale and Richards).

Mid-talls forward

Hannan, Buku

Young Mids - very little size and dominance/star power

West, García, McNeil

might be missing Bailey Smith? our best young mid by a mile

 

[Libba39]

This year the most important aspect in my opinion is the ability of the 2-4 year players to step up. I'm thinking mainly of these four:

Garcia
West
Khamis
Cleary
Bedendo

Also as long as Lobb is in the side I can't really see Darcy getting a game. To go in with Darcy, Lobb, and English all in the same team would be nothing short of suicide.

Finally, the most intriguing players this year are Daniel and Bruce. Does Caleb finally go full mid, and does Bruce get back to 2021 form and push Lobb or JUH out.

So my round 1 side looks something like this:

FB: Keath Gardner Richards
HB: Dale Jones Cleary
C: B.Smith Liberatore Macrae
HF: Treloar Naughton Garcia
FF: Lobb Ugle-Hagan Weightman
FOL: English Bontempelli Daniel

INT: Dureya Williams West Hannan
EMG: Mclean Khamis Bruce

 

[Whoyagot]

While I see strength in our defense and forward lines, I’m actually most concerned for our midfield this year and would like to see West and Garcia given opportunities in the middle of the ground.

Of our mids you can safely say Bont and Macrae have hit their peak. I think it’s unfair to expect Libba and Treloar to provide the same level of consistentency as they have in previous years given their age and injury niggles. That leaves Baz as the only other prime mover with scope to improve. With Dunkley and Hunter out we seem a lot weaker in that area of the ground. Our wing situation is also a massive question mark with no player really a lock for a wing role (which I think has become a hugely specialised and important position)

The one offset to this decline appears to be the growth in English’s game and the acquisition of Lobb as a supporting ruck. If both of these talls stay fit for the season, they should be able to provide consistent supply to our midfield group and make their days a bit easier.

Watching some of the highlights from our Melbourne win last year, the energy that players like west, Garcia, Jamarra and Khamis created seemed crucial and these players will need to take a step to more consistent footy to help us improve. I’d like to see West and Garcia given time in the middle and I’d like to see Bont and Macrae play more wing time. Bont in particular would be an elite wingman with his endurance running, elite foot skills and size. It’ll also put less pressure on his body in an uncontested role which should help him manage the season a bit better.

 

[NthBondiDoggies]

might be missing Bailey Smith? our best young mid by a mile

Jeesus yes! Operator error! Absolutely and stupidly was looking going: “I know am I missing someone”! Thanks

 

[doggiesin08]

This year the most important aspect in my opinion is the ability of the 2-4 year players to step up. I'm thinking mainly of these four:

Garcia
West
Khamis
Cleary
Bedendo

Also as long as Lobb is in the side I can't really see Darcy getting a game. To go in with Darcy, Lobb, and English all in the same team would be nothing short of suicide.

Finally, the most intriguing players this year are Daniel and Bruce. Does Caleb finally go full mid, and does Bruce get back to 2021 form and push Lobb or JUH out.

So my round 1 side looks something like this:

FB: Keath Gardner Richards
HB: Dale Jones Cleary
C: B.Smith Liberatore Macrae
HF: Treloar Naughton Garcia
FF: Lobb Ugle-Hagan Weightman
FOL: English Bontempelli Daniel

INT: Dureya Williams West Hannan
EMG: Mclean Khamis Bruce

I completely agree with that list and line of thinking. If those guys come on and we have some others return to proven previous levels (Williams, Crozier, McLean) it will make our players 18-22 much stronger even with some absences.

 

[Mofra]

What are you basing that Keath is ahead of Darcy on? Are you talking about the Keath from 2 years ago. Last year when Darcy came in at CHB he took more intercept marks in 3 games than what Keath did for the year? Keath had a shocking year for us last year, although he has the potentially to turn it around.

So far this pre-season Darcy has hardly joined the main group while Keath is moving as well as he ever has, is a few kgs lighter and his kicking has been a standout.
I doubt Keath can get through a whole year without time on the sidelines but if we're talking purely round 1, Keath is ahead of our other intercepting options at this point.

 

[Mofra]

While I see strength in our defense and forward lines, I’m actually most concerned for our midfield this year and would like to see West and Garcia given opportunities in the middle of the ground.

Going by the pre-season reports, West has been managed most of the weeks so far while Garcia has been sharp as hell and his ground ball work has stood out. I suspect we find a way to get Garcia into the Round 1 side and as the year wears on he gets the occasional CBA. We've all seen how hard at the ball he is and his sidestep stands out at VFL level, hopefully he gets to bring it out a bit more in the seniors.

 

[Dogman 1]

B- Doc Keath Gardner HB- Richards Jones Dale C- Macrae Bont Baker HF- McLean Naughton Smith F- Weightman Lobb JUH Foll- English Treloar Libba Inter- JJ Darcy Bruce Cleary Daniel Good enough side to beat melb I think.

 

[Bulldog rick]

Here is my first attempt at a best 22.
B- Ed Keith Gardner
HB- Buku Jones Dale
C- Bedendo Macrae B Smith
HF- JJ Naughton Cody
F- Garcia JUH Lobb
Foll- English Bont Libba
Int/sub/em- Daniel Toby Williams Treloar Darcy West Bruce.
Would like to see buku, bedendo and Garcia all get early starts to the season between them they have so much talent. Confident that both Darcy and West will become regulars not before too long.

 

[Proffessor]

Key selection issue for 2023 is the same one as last year.

Will Gardner play ahead of any of the other established tallish defenders, i.e. Keath, Jones and Williams? And if so will he play at a level worthy of that selection.
Last season Zaine Cordy was pushed out of the more effective 2021 set up to accommodate him, and that didn't work out too well for anyone.
At other times Keath and Williams were also pushed out.
Up until this point, Gardner hasn't been good enough to consistently play a key role. He can be an OK as a back up in case of injury or as a third tall on certain types, e.g. tall resting ruck\forwards.
The problem is not many teams play 3 tall forwards, and Gardner offers little in terms of offensive rebound.

I think Keath, Jones and Williams, should be our starting tall defensive set up if everyone is fully fit, but we will probably make similar mistakes to last year and it could cost us dearly.

 

[Proffessor]

Here is my first attempt at a best 22.
B- Ed Keith Gardner
HB- Buku Jones Dale
C- Bedendo Macrae B Smith
HF- JJ Naughton Cody
F- Garcia JUH Lobb
Foll- English Bont Libba
Int/sub/em- Daniel Toby Williams Treloar Darcy West Bruce.
Would like to see buku, bedendo and Garcia all get early starts to the season between them they have so much talent. Confident that both Darcy and West will become regulars not before too long.

Given our tough early season draw, going with an inexperienced line up is more likely to derail our season irreparably. Best to let young players earn their spots with good VFL form rather than gifting them early opportunities at the team's expense.

 

[dergert]

I've been lucky to catch a couple of sessions this pre-season, also have a mate who's given a few good reports.

I'm cautious in getting over the top excited because we are only competing against ourselves and not being coached against per se.

Bedendo will be best 22 on a wing by the end of the season imo. He has dominated match simulation so far. Before Christmas he took a hanger from a kick in apparently. He has aggression and can run all day.

No surprise but Garcia will be in the side at some point playing midfield minutes. I am eager to see how the coaches split midfield minutes between Garcia and West.

 

[Proffessor]

I've been lucky to catch a couple of sessions this pre-season, also have a mate who's given a few good reports.

I'm cautious in getting over the top excited because we are only competing against ourselves and not being coached against per se.

Bedendo will be best 22 on a wing by the end of the season imo. He has dominated match simulation so far. Before Christmas he took a hanger from a kick in apparently. He has aggression and can run all day.

No surprise but Garcia will be in the side at some point playing midfield minutes. I am eager to see how the coaches split midfield minutes between Garcia and West.

Glad to hear. With the loss of Hunter and Dunkley there are some midfield spots up for grabs.

 

[doggiesin08]

Key selection issue for 2023 is the same one as last year.

Will Gardner play ahead of any of the other established tallish defenders, i.e. Keath, Jones and Williams? And if so will he play at a level worthy of that selection.
Last season Zaine Cordy was pushed out of the more effective 2021 set up to accommodate him, and that didn't work out too well for anyone.
At other times Keath and Williams were also pushed out.
Up until this point, Gardner hasn't been good enough to consistently play a key role. He can be an OK as a back up in case of injury or as a third tall on certain types, e.g. tall resting ruck\forwards.
The problem is not many teams play 3 tall forwards, and Gardner offers little in terms of offensive rebound.

I think Keath, Jones and Williams, should be our starting tall defensive set up if everyone is fully fit, but we will probably make similar mistakes to last year and it could cost us dearly.

Gardner absolutely deserved his spot in the team last year over Cordy. Keath was cooked and Williams was moved out of the backline after some dreadful games (I think round 1 was an AFL record for goals against from turnovers by a single player).