Preview Changes: Round 11 vs GWS

[BunjiMac]

Nah..if you have ever played sport at a decent level you would know that it just does not happen.

That's hilarious

Tell me where you've played sport with an actual fan base of paid up members.

 

[BunjiMac]

You can't believe that

Absolutely I do.

Who do the players really answer too?

I think our acceptance as a supporter group has a direct impact on the players psyche. There are only a few sources whereby the players will look for validation of their performances, the coaches, family and friends and yes the supporter base. Some players may look to the media clearly as well.

We need to be ridiculously hard on them so they understand from our perspective what we expect, so that they feel a need to live up to our expectations.

As a group, we are like one collective parent out there watching our kids play.

They will be influenced by it.

And yes, I feel collectively we are too soft on them which has helped foster this pysche of mediocrity into the players.

 

[John Who]

Absolutely I do.

Who do the players really answer too?

I think our acceptance as a supporter group has a direct impact on the players psyche. There are only a few sources whereby the players will look for validation of their performances, the coaches, family and friends and yes the supporter base. Some players may look to the media clearly as well.

We need to be ridiculously hard on them so they understand from our perspective what we expect, so that they feel a need to live up to our expectations.

As a group, we are like one collective parent out there watching our kids play.

They will be influenced by it.

And yes, I feel collectively we are too soft on them which has helped foster this pysche of mediocrity into the players.

What you're saying might be the case if we continually lose by 10+ goals in consecutive games. We haven't lost like that since Pyke's coaching.

And if you reckon they're playing like that due to the psyche of the fans being soft on them, how would you explain the wins against Richmond (home) and Sydney (away). We didn't look very strong odds playing against formidable teams with some of our stars being injured. Were the fans rocking up expecting a win then?

 

[BunjiMac]

What you're saying might be the case if we continually lose by 10+ goals in consecutive games. We haven't lost like that since Pyke's coaching.

And if you reckon they're playing like that due to the psyche of the fans being soft on them, how would you explain the wins against Richmond (home) and Sydney (away). We didn't look very strong odds playing against formidable teams with some of our stars being injured. Were the fans rocking up expecting a win then?

You're being too short sighted.

Or your levels of mediocrity is different to mine.

 

[jackster83]

He’s miles and miles away from being an A grade mid. Not even close.

And that shouldn’t be an expectation on a late first round pick anyway

I’d be happy with a solid B grade, like a dougy but I see that as his absolute ceiling

At worst I think he'll be a similar player to Cunningham from Sydney. I like what he's showing, but he's at least another pre-season away from being able to contribute for four quarters.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

A couple of times, but i'm more thinking who is left that we'd use and Himmelberg is really it for forward depth now that hasn't been selected.



I'm not sure if that's as much of a weakness as you make out. Murphy is definitely one piece of the puzzle, Knight if he gets fit is another.

It's really the case of draft one or two more with top end defensive traits (and ideally some skill, which is doable seeing usually permanent small forwards tend to slide like crazy), and it should be ok.

Eddie Betts and Charlie Cameron were contributing 80+ goals and a ton of defensive pressure per season that was leading to goals for our other forwards

Murphy and some draftee with defensive skills ain't going to cut it

If we want to be good we need a gun goalkicking small forward and another gun speedy pressure applier and tackler

 

[John Who]

You're being too short sighted.

No, I don't believe I am. I'm making a valid point of discussion. Seeing how the boys react to the loss will be a true reflection of their psyche. Not judging them solely on one really bad performance out of a possible 22 games. And besides, it's ok to use injuries as an excuse...all other fans from other clubs are acknowledging this, it's not really hard to see why we lost badly as we did - too many out injured and too many underdone players, on a big ground with an opposition hell bent on running us off our feet. The team's psyche can only carry on so much with a general restricted physical frame to play with.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

I'm more then happy to be in the minority here, as I did state later on, you are dealing with someone who already has the tools to become it (explosive acceleration/high iq/determined/good skills). Just a matter of development/rounding out, and if he is capable of (which I think he is).

It'll be slow, and I doubt he'll hit those heights before 2021, but I'm confident he'll get there.

He has the athletic traits but not the footy IQ , that's where you are getting it wrong

That's why he's a 20 possession gatherer at his best in sanfl and why he does things like he did in final minutes of showdown where he got lost

That's fine , he will get better but he won't be a high possession winner or an A grade mid . He will be an explosive high forward and at times wing and also handy running thru off back of the square with his pace

 

[Scorpus]

Eddie Betts and Charlie Cameron were contributing 80+ goals and a ton of defensive pressure per season that was leading to goals for our other forwards

Murphy and some draftee with defensive skills ain't going to cut it

Of course two players who had played a combined 1 game leading into the season won't be able to match what a 73 game player provided for us.

But so far, Murphy has averaged a goal per game. Cameron last year just 1.2. Murphy has averaged 4.3 tackles; Cameron also 4.3. From a player who's played a total of 4 games so far, that's not too bad.

Unless Murphy is already at his ceiling, I don't see why one of those small pressure forwards we require can't be him

 

[Jeffcrowe]

He’s miles and miles away from being an A grade mid. Not even close.

And that shouldn’t be an expectation on a late first round pick anyway

I’d be happy with a solid B grade, like a dougy but I see that as his absolute ceiling

Exactly Sanders exactly

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Of course two players who had played a combined 1 game leading into the season won't be able to match what a 73 game player provided for us.

But so far, Murphy has averaged a goal per game. Cameron last year just 1.2. Murphy has averaged 4.3 tackles; Cameron also 4.3. From a player who's played a total of 4 games so far, that's not too bad.

I like Murphy and I want to give him games , I'm talking about our needs pressing forward and they are not limited or fixable by recruiting 2-3 more gun mids

If we want to maintain our standing or improve by winning a flag we can't depend on Murphy and another ok draftee going forward . We need to think about drafting or trading for a gun - like a Rankine Fantasia Hill or whoever but Cameron's loss together with Betts decline demands it

We are not just a midfielder or 2 short moving forward , need to improve each part of the ground

 

[BunjiMac]

No, I don't believe I am. I'm making a valid point of discussion. Seeing how the boys react to the loss will be a true reflection of their psyche. Not judging them solely on one really bad performance out of a possible 22 games. And besides, it's ok to use injuries as an excuse...all other fans from other clubs are acknowledging this, it's not really hard to see why we lost badly as we did - too many out injured and too many underdone players, on a big ground with an opposition hell bent on running us off our feet. The team's psyche can only carry on so much with a general restricted physical frame to play with.

Exactly short sighted.

Who's judging them on one game?

 

[Scorpus]

I like Murphy and I want to give him games , I'm talking about our needs pressing forward and they are not limited or fixable by recruiting 2-3 more gun mids

If we want to maintain our standing or improve by winning a flag we can't depend on Murphy and another ok draftee going forward . We need to think about drafting or trading for a gun - like a Rankine Fantasia Hill or whoever but Cameron's loss together with Betts decline demands it

We are not just a midfielder or 2 short moving forward , need to improve each part of the ground

Sure, with Betts gone we will need another gun small forward. But I think we only need one. You don't need to load up your squad with first round pick small forwards, or trade high picks for them.

 

[BunjiMac]

I like Murphy and I want to give him games , I'm talking about our needs pressing forward and they are not limited or fixable by recruiting 2-3 more gun mids

If we want to maintain our standing or improve by winning a flag we can't depend on Murphy and another ok draftee going forward . We need to think about drafting or trading for a gun - like a Rankine Fantasia Hill or whoever but Cameron's loss together with Betts decline demands it

We are not just a midfielder or 2 short moving forward , need to improve each part of the ground

I don't disagree, but I also think we are short on real class with skill execution under pressure

 

[Jeffcrowe]

I don't disagree, but I also think we are short on real class with skill execution under pressure

Which is included and helped by an A grade blue chip small forward

 

[Jeffcrowe]

I don't disagree, but I also think we are short on real class with skill execution under pressure

So you agree it's an area of the ground we need to look at other than midfielders ?

Good , we agree then

 

[Crow till I die]

That's hilarious

Tell me where you've played sport with an actual fan base of paid up members.

You are really hard to hold an intellectual conversation with. Come back when you have something intelligent to add

 

[FantasticShirt]

Where do you think their expectations come from?

If the fans are happy with acceptable losses, what do you think will happen with the players?

This is not a good take.

 

[Murray2503]

The club should be playing the likes of o'brien, dear, himmelberg, wilson, davis and murphy to see who is worthwhile persisting with imo. Getting games into the future would be a smart move instead of playing the likes of otten, mackay, atkins, kelly, gibson and jacobs who i'm hoping the club moves on from at end of the year. There is no chance of ultimate success this year even if all players are fit imo. Playing the future may find a player or two heavens forbid and likely push us into the top 6 of one of the strongest drafts in years.

 

[Shaz2012]

Which is included and helped by an A grade blue chip small forward

Ideally yes. And I am absolutely with you on Rankine (our first pick) or trading for Fantasia. But lower your expectations. We won’t replace Eddie Betts. If we do then we will have won the lottery twice. I think Murphy can be a piece of the final puzzle. Give him a couple of pre-seasons and he could be a Poppy type gun for us. We have taken for granted that we had two natural goal kickers in Eddie and Charlie. CC was a natural, had great numbers even as a cub. Fantasia is the same and Rankine looks the same. I don’t think Murphy is that type of natural goal kicker. But I think he will still kick plenty of goals for us in a more workman like way and goals are goals.

I wouldn’t be looking for the next small forward like we look for KPPs or mids. But when talent like Rankine comes along, you take it. If talent like Fantasia is available for trade you do it. Otherwise, settle for what your Murphys and Galluccis can do for you.

 

[Crow till I die]

What you're saying might be the case if we continually lose by 10+ goals in consecutive games. We haven't lost like that since Pyke's coaching.

And if you reckon they're playing like that due to the psyche of the fans being soft on them, how would you explain the wins against Richmond (home) and Sydney (away). We didn't look very strong odds playing against formidable teams with some of our stars being injured. Were the fans rocking up expecting a win then?

John who..its hard to reason with this guy as any comments we make he shuts off to and is absolute in his condemnation of the players

 

[Jeffcrowe]

The club should be playing the likes of o'brien, dear, himmelberg, wilson, davis and murphy to see who is worthwhile persisting with imo. Getting games into the future would be a smart move instead of playing the likes of otten, mackay, atkins, kelly, gibson and jacobs who i'm hoping the club moves on from at end of the year. There is no chance of ultimate success this year even if all players are fit imo. Playing the future may find a player or two heavens forbid and likely push us into the top 6 of one of the strongest drafts in years.

you want to put up the red flag and gift games to guys who can't get a kick in sanfl ?

Wow

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Ideally yes. And I am absolutely with you on Rankine (our first pick) or trading for Fantasia. But lower your expectations. We won’t replace Eddie Betts. If we do then we will have won the lottery twice. I think Murphy can be a piece of the final puzzle. Give him a couple of pre-seasons and he could be a Poppy type gun for us. We have taken for granted that we had two natural goal kickers in Eddie and Charlie. CC was a natural, had great numbers even as a cub. Fantasia is the same and Rankine looks the same. I don’t think Murphy is that type of natural goal kicker. But I think he will still kick plenty of goals for us in a more workman like way and goals are goals.

I wouldn’t be looking for the next small forward like we look for KPPs or mids. But when talent like Rankine comes along, you take it. If talent like Fantasia is available for trade you do it. Otherwise, settle for what your Murphys and Galluccis can do for you.

Murphy Galluci and someone a bit more blue chip doesn't need to be Eddie Betts level

Plenty of good types in draft and trade options too

 

[Betts are off]

Of course two players who had played a combined 1 game leading into the season won't be able to match what a 73 game player provided for us.

But so far, Murphy has averaged a goal per game. Cameron last year just 1.2. Murphy has averaged 4.3 tackles; Cameron also 4.3. From a player who's played a total of 4 games so far, that's not too bad.

Unless Murphy is already at his ceiling, I don't see why one of those small pressure forwards we require can't be him

Absolutely! Murphy's pressure is great at that pressure forward role. His top end speed is not as important as his close proximity quickness and manic intensity on the player as well. And to your last point I think Murphy has a lot of growth in his game left too. At the start of the year I had that position pegged for Milera or Jarmin, but for me now it Murphy's by a wide margin!

 

[Betts are off]

Did I see that Hampton is not even in the extended bench? Didn't he had a blinder on the weekend? You would think after a 91 point humiliation bringing the guy in whose playing well even in the horrible team we call the SANFL Crows is only logical!