Chris Scott & John Longmire

[No Quarter]

My apologies if this seems like a biased thread it’s not my intention.

I just wonder if there’s another discussion about persisting with coaches rather than to turf them.

I can’t speak to Sydney’s culture and approach but I’m sure it’s respectable.

I think quite a lot of people would have happily seen the back of Chris at the end of last season if not even earlier than that.

Instead, the club had a look at areas they thought they could improve on: Assistants, game plan, personnel changes even looked at bringing Ross Lyon in to assist with Chris.

I think this has shown great returns this year of course.

There’s other precedents like Dimma pre flag, even Bomber Thompson pre flag.

Other clubs seem to love pulling the trigger quicker than perhaps they should.

Should other clubs be looking to take a leaf out of this book?

Maybe not.. Hinkley might be an example of not, Leon Cameron

Leon Cameron

Age

51

Ht

185cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.2

4star

K

12.4

5star

HB

4.7

3star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.9

3star

No current season stats available

D

20.8

5star

K

14.4

5star

HB

6.4

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.8

3star

, Brad Scott, Nathan Buckley.

Worth a thought?

 

[PhatBoy]

If someone who has been up for a while and fallen short suddenly misses finals a couple of years in a row then sure it might be time to say enough is enough but I’ve never understand why any club would jettison someone when they are at least within striking distance:

Surely it’s easier to make the small but necessary changes to add the extra 5-10 per cent to go all the way than just to start with a new coach and hope that HE can instantly add that extra quality

 

[demondavey]

Good post. Both clubs were elite when their respective coaches took over, and they’ve been able to maintain it. I’ve been openly critical of Geelong and their finals record, only to see my club give up the ghost in straight sets. I think what’s important is the youth as well as contending, and Geelong have some really great young players that will help rejuvenate the group when they cliff comes.

I think the issue with say, Port, GWS, is that they haven’t had enough top 4 success for long enough and haven’t built what Sydney and Geelong have over 15 years. To continue to contend I’d very hard, and takes a savvy recruitment department as well. Fagan and Beverage have been around the mark a few years so interesting to see how they approach it next year. Both could be top 4, same as Melbourne. Collingwood should be fine with McCrae as well.

 

[Costanza_]

I would have been happy for Longmire to move on a few seasons ago. I had no doubt he is an excellent coach and strong leader - but we just felt stale, I thought we needed to be reinvigorated, and that Longmire in turn would do well at another club.

But he was reappointed and has handled a rebuild superbly. Gameplan became more aggressive without losing the hard-nosed defense, lets the young and super talented players play on instinct, showed faith in guys like Fox and Stephens who are now unquestionably best 22, and has us in another GF probably 2 years ahead of expectations. I think Don Pyke was a fantastic addition as well.

 

[Elmer_Judd]

My apologies if this seems like a biased thread it’s not my intention.

I just wonder if there’s another discussion about persisting with coaches rather than to turf them.

I can’t speak to Sydney’s culture and approach but I’m sure it’s respectable.

I think quite a lot of people would have happily seen the back of Chris at the end of last season if not even earlier than that.

Instead, the club had a look at areas they thought they could improve on: Assistants, game plan, personnel changes even looked at bringing Ross Lyon in to assist with Chris.

I think this has shown great returns this year of course.

There’s other precedents like Dimma pre flag, even Bomber Thompson pre flag.

Other clubs seem to love pulling the trigger quicker than perhaps they should.

Should other clubs be looking to take a leaf out of this book?

Maybe not.. Hinkley might be an example of not, Leon Cameron, Brad Scott, Nathan Buckley.

Worth a thought?

Ken Hinkley is still very lucky to have his job at Alberton imo.

 

[demondavey]

Ken Hinkley is still very lucky to have his job at Alberton imo.

Ken would want to do something next year

 

[No Quarter]

I would have been happy for Longmire to move on a few seasons ago. I had no doubt he is an excellent coach and strong leader - but we just felt stale, I thought we needed to be reinvigorated, and that Longmire in turn would do well at another club.

But he was reappointed and has handled a rebuild superbly. Gameplan became more aggressive without losing the hard-nosed defense, lets the young and super talented players play on instinct, showed faith in guys like Fox and Stephens who are now unquestionably best 22, and has us in another GF probably 2 years ahead of expectations. I think Don Pyke was a fantastic addition as well.

So I guess the question is things like in Longmires example has this happened because of him or what has happened around him - and the same for Collingwood - is it 100% to credit for the arrival of McRae or are there other contributing factors?

 

[And_ROOS]

I think Geelong and Sydney are showing freshing up your assistant coaches is just as important to sustained success as drafting, trading etc.

 

[Ticky009]

So I guess the question is things like in Longmires example has this happened because of him or what has happened around him - and the same for Collingwood - is it 100% to credit for the arrival of McRae or are there other contributing factors?

I think every successful coach has a good team around them. The game is just too demanding for it rest on the shoulders of one man. There's a reason successful teams assistant coaches get head hunted by other teams.

 

[The King!]

My apologies if this seems like a biased thread it’s not my intention.

I just wonder if there’s another discussion about persisting with coaches rather than to turf them.

I can’t speak to Sydney’s culture and approach but I’m sure it’s respectable.

I think quite a lot of people would have happily seen the back of Chris at the end of last season if not even earlier than that.

Instead, the club had a look at areas they thought they could improve on: Assistants, game plan, personnel changes even looked at bringing Ross Lyon in to assist with Chris.

I think this has shown great returns this year of course.

There’s other precedents like Dimma pre flag, even Bomber Thompson pre flag.

Other clubs seem to love pulling the trigger quicker than perhaps they should.

Should other clubs be looking to take a leaf out of this book?

Maybe not.. Hinkley might be an example of not, Leon Cameron, Brad Scott, Nathan Buckley.

Worth a thought?

so you reckon clubs should not just sack their coach randomly to chase another coach ?

 

[Ricketz]

My apologies if this seems like a biased thread it’s not my intention.

I just wonder if there’s another discussion about persisting with coaches rather than to turf them.

I can’t speak to Sydney’s culture and approach but I’m sure it’s respectable.

I think quite a lot of people would have happily seen the back of Chris at the end of last season if not even earlier than that.

Instead, the club had a look at areas they thought they could improve on: Assistants, game plan, personnel changes even looked at bringing Ross Lyon in to assist with Chris.

I think this has shown great returns this year of course.

There’s other precedents like Dimma pre flag, even Bomber Thompson pre flag.

Other clubs seem to love pulling the trigger quicker than perhaps they should.

Should other clubs be looking to take a leaf out of this book?

Maybe not.. Hinkley might be an example of not, Leon Cameron, Brad Scott, Nathan Buckley.

Worth a thought?

Stability in leadership is always good. If everyone, from the top down, is buying in it is amazing.

But you gotta have a coach who embraces the changing face of the game. And a board that will support them. Smart operators. Both Longmire and Scott are these types.

 

[yamborghinidream]

I think Geelong and Sydney are showing freshing up your assistant coaches is just as important to sustained success as drafting, trading etc.

It is therefore unsurprising that these clubs are the most vocal in lifting the soft cap and filling in what COVID took away - because they know what to do with it.

 

[Duskfire]

The thing is, well run clubs will know where they are at. They know the players, they know the coaching staff, they know everyones thoughts and how they can improve. And Geelong and Sydney are both well run clubs. Geelong would have sat down with Chris Scott

Chris Scott

Age

47

Ht

182cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.6

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.2

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.4

3star

and he would have said what they need to improve and how they need to improve it, and how the general vibe was positivity, and that was that, they backed him in because they understand the situation better than we do. I assume it is the same with Longmire.

I think both coaches don't get enough credit for how they have changed their gameplan over the years and refines it. I am sure if Scott was a stubborn moron and kept on having Geelong play the same way year on year, he might be in trouble. Intstead both have adapted with the changes in the game and changed how they played

Geelong and Sydney also very rarely sack their coaches, and prefer to instead improve the staff around them. In general, thats just how those clubs operate.

So it would be case by case for sure. At a certain point, both those coaches will be gone, they won't be able to do anymore. And those clubs will have to move on. but realistically, those coaches were never in trouble.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

I think both coaches don't get enough credit for how they have changed their gameplan over the years and refines it. I am sure if Scott was a stubborn moron and kept on having Geelong play the same way year on year, he might be in trouble. Intstead both have adapted with the changes in the game and changed how they played

We did play the same way for years, though, and it probably cost us finals.

Good on him for the sustained run at the top and for everything this year. I think he's done very well this year, as has the whole team and club. Incredibly mature, clinical and professional result to the season. You sense he's applying a lot of what he's learned during his extensive tenure to this year, and that's great. But boy, would have been great if he'd learned some lessons or been able to implement them a little bit earlier, because we have had some teams that were talented and should have been capable as well. A lot of missed opportunities. We persisted for years with his negative chip-chip bull crap, and that yielded nothing. Not too surprising we're in a better position since we've changed approach.

 

[Mr Meow]

We did play the same way for years, though, and it probably cost us finals.

Good on him for the sustained run at the top and for everything this year. I think he's done very well this year, as has the whole team and club. Incredibly mature, clinical and professional result to the season. You sense he's applying a lot of what he's learned during his extensive tenure to this year, and that's great. But boy, would have been great if he'd learned some lessons or been able to implement them a little bit earlier, because we have had some teams that were talented and should have been capable as well. A lot of missed opportunities. We persisted for years with his negative chip-chip bull crap, and that yielded nothing. Not too surprising we're in a better position since we've changed approach.

Having Cameron (fully fit), Stengle, Holmes, Smith, Close and SDK sure does help.

2020 onwards, the improvement of Henry, Kolo, Bews, Miers, Atkins and both Guthrie's has been handy.

A deep bench and emergency list to help manage veterans within games and over a season is beneficial.

Look at some of the finals teams and emergency lists from 2014-2022. Lacking in skill, speed and stamina. The bottom 6 next to useless. Ultimately a few goals worse than some excellent Hawthorn and Richmond sides.

Yes there's been some missed opportunities and missed calls, but talent wise they've been around the 3rd or 4th best most years, occasionally 2nd. Most neutrals would agree with that.

It's not surprising that the game plan can evolve when the right players are there. Talent wise they are now arguably top.

 

[Ginnieboy]

Just watched both Fly’s and Longmire’s pressers, Fly very gracious in defeat, congratulated Sydney and Horse on a great season and wished them well for next week, Horse on the other hand was the opposite, went out of his way not to acknowledge Collingwood’s season or game, was given more than enough ques too, absolute piece of s**t, hope the Cat’s maul them, pretty safe to say they will too.

 

[PJays]

12 months ago, Chris Scott

Chris Scott

Age

47

Ht

182cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.6

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.2

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.4

3star

was clearly one of the best coaches in the comp

Same can be said of Longmire

They've both had great years steering their teams to the Grand Final, but neither's position was ever seriously in question

Geelong and Scott do amaze me. Stengle, Stewart and Blicavs made the All Australian team. That's two mature age recruits and a delisted free agent.

Incredible.

Geelong and Sydney, Scott and Longmire will leave a legacy in the AFL.

The AFL designs everything so teams won't be able to do what Sydney and Geelong have done over the past 20 years. And specifically the last decade- winning a flag and continually contending without dropping down the ladder for long, or needing high draft picks.

They are the two clubs and coaches who have defeated the AFL system.

They've proven you don't necessarily need a "rebuild".

 

[Northernsoul74]

I think Geelong and Sydney are showing freshing up your assistant coaches is just as important to sustained success as drafting, trading etc.

I think every successful coach has a good team around them. The game is just too demanding for it rest on the shoulders of one man. There's a reason successful teams assistant coaches get head hunted by other teams.

Western Bulldogs please listen.

 

[bloodsbigot]

Just watched both Fly’s and Longmire’s pressers, Fly very gracious in defeat, congratulated Sydney and Horse on a great season and wished them well for next week, Horse on the other hand was the opposite, went out of his way not to acknowledge Collingwood’s season or game, was given more than enough ques too, absolute piece of s**t, hope the Cat’s maul them, pretty safe to say they will too.

I think the media were doing a good enough job wanking over your superb and brave loss. You didn't need Longmire too as well. I was actually surprised when they sorta mentioned us in the post match. AFL media made it seem like only one team played.

 

[demondavey]

Just watched both Fly’s and Longmire’s pressers, Fly very gracious in defeat, congratulated Sydney and Horse on a great season and wished them well for next week, Horse on the other hand was the opposite, went out of his way not to acknowledge Collingwood’s season or game, was given more than enough ques too, absolute piece of s**t, hope the Cat’s maul them, pretty safe to say they will too.

Why should he give a toss about you?

 

[PhatBoy]

We did play the same way for years, though, and it probably cost us finals.

Good on him for the sustained run at the top and for everything this year. I think he's done very well this year, as has the whole team and club. Incredibly mature, clinical and professional result to the season. You sense he's applying a lot of what he's learned during his extensive tenure to this year, and that's great. But boy, would have been great if he'd learned some lessons or been able to implement them a little bit earlier, because we have had some teams that were talented and should have been capable as well. A lot of missed opportunities. We persisted for years with his negative chip-chip bull crap, and that yielded nothing. Not too surprising we're in a better position since we've changed approach.

That in itself is a myth. The ‘boring chip chip’ thing was only around for a couple of years in the time that you’re appraising.

 

[Ginnieboy]

Why should he give a toss about you?

It’s called showing a bit of class mate, doesn’t cost anything.