Opinion Chris Scott's coaching - Part II [NEW POLL ADDED]
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Ray Donovan
Staring into the abyss
We are about a 5% chance to win the flag next year.
Bulldogs get
Crameri, Murphy, Marcus Adams, Suckling and down the track Wallis, Redpath, Cloke back into the lineup that won a flag last year.
Gws can only improve added deliedio lost some list depth but overall still same side
Sydney regenerated list with some super talented youngsters in Heeney, Mills, Allir, Papley and the core of stars parker hanners kennedy buddy all prime for finals football will improve next year with more games and heeney might explode.
Our list is full of B graders through trades
Zac Smith
Rhys Stanley
Lachie Henderson
Zach Thouy
Mitch Clark
Menegola
Aaron Black
Potential a graders
Apart from cocky koladashnij and duncan not sure how many of these blokes could really push.
Motlop ?????
Koladashnij
Guthrie
Cockatoo
Duncan
Blicavs
Thurlow
Mcarthy ????
Scott selwood ( needs to get back to best)
Menzel ( injury restricted from his best )
Lang ( stretching)
Gregson ( stretching long way away )
Veterans
Lonergan
Mackie
A graders
Danger
Selwood
Hawkins
Taylor
Rest
Cowan
Murdoch
This list does not win a flag it holds on to a spot in the 8 no draft picks excluding 24 this year for caddy. We recieved smedts and caddy for losing ablett this list is a scott era fail. Yes he won a flag off the back off a great coach and team manager in thompson who put players in positions to succeed through draft.We need a coach to rebuild the list not re-tool the damage has been done now with the way contracts arr structured he needs to win this year or bust. So strange why if you go down this parh you take 2e instead of deliedio are proven a grader or a younger spud on t year deal.
Ray Donovan
Staring into the abyss
I hope your right bad coaches destroy lists or some just leave lists ruined ross lyon. All the clubs that reconstruct lists in this manner fail a breif upward trend then fall from the clouds takes years to be in a position to challenge again then you need to rebuild from the start when selwood is old and danger is old. The bulldogs are a perfect example of how to build through draft while using veterans at disposal beveridge is a genious and mcartney deserves lots of praise as well considering he drafted a large majority of that list.
I am deeply concerned with the direction of the playing list and youth player development under Chris Scott after we won the 2011 flag. All coaches are judged by wins and losses come September. Since the 2011 GF, we have won 2 finals (2013 finals victory against Port Power and the nail biter against the Hawks at the MCG). Damien Hardwick has not won a final since 2010 and he is under more scrutiny and pressure whilst @AFL360 do not put the pressure on Chris Scott. The media treat Chris Scott like a king and he can sell ice to the eskimoes. He is a just a Willy Loman!
Since 2012, we have turned over so many draftees via trades and delistings and most of our draftees who have reached 70 to 140 games have not graduated from 3.5 status to 5 star status. This is an alarming statistic whilst other AFL clubs (@westernbulldogs @GWSGIANTS @HawthornFC @stkildafc @melbournefc) have recruited the best assistant teaching coaches to support the head coach. You don't have to be a 10 year old to realise that Melbourne and Bulldogs have improved over 2 years due to the appointments of Brendan McCartney at Melbourne and Joel Corey at the Western Bulldogs. These clubs realise that at the end of the day, you can draft the best young talent, but teaching the youngsters and players who have 30 to 100 games under their belts via the right teaching methods is so crucial to develop the quality of depth within an AFL side. These clubs have copied the Bomber Thompson Geelong model of training up youngsters.
The appointment of Matthew Scarlett, Corey Enright and Simon Lloyd have been positive moves at Geelong. At least Matthew Scarlett will impart the Bomber Thompson teaching methods and since his FT appointment, our backline has improved since 2012.
But, the continual practice of appointing mates to the coaching staff does not bring objectivity and promotes a YES man culture. How on earth could Geelong appoint Matthew Knights to the coaching panel with Shane O'Bree???
Why has not Geelong appointed David Wheadon on a part time basis to oversee decision making acquisition skill and ball movement development? Or, why has not Geelong thrown the kitchen sink and offered Brendan McCartney a role at Geelong? He is doing wonders at Melbourne.
At the end of the day, Chris Scott inherited a Mercedez Benz at the end of 2010 and he had to tweak it. He basically inherited all of Bomber Thompson's hard work. After 2012, he has dismantled Bomber's good work and flushed all of Bomber's good work in developing and promoting youngsters; giving them a chance and teaching them the importance of winning CONTESTED ball and making good decisions during a game down the toilet.
Finally, Geelong should have demanded more for Josh Caddy going to Richmond and Nathan Vardy going to the Eagles. Geelong spent time and money in developing these players. Geelong should have bargained hard for Richmond's early draft picks and played hard ball with them. With Vardy, they should have done the same. Geelong needed early draft picks this year and giving away Vardy for a late pick is an insult. They have a chance to be superstars for their new clubs and it just shows that Chris Scott cannot develop youngsters into a Corey Enright or James Bartel. If a club hires a dud assistant coach in Matthew Knights and former Brisbane Lions teammates as Assistant coaches, it makes you wonder why we did not win the 2016 flag!
We did the right thing at the end of 2016 and recruited Dangerfield, Scott Selwood, Lachie Henderson and Zac Smith. BUT, Scott's continual failure in developing the B graders into A grade champions is a major concern whilst the Bulldogs, Giants, Hawks and Saints are streets ahead of us in terms of developing B graders into A graders.
Since 2012, we have turned over so many draftees via trades and delistings and most of our draftees who have reached 70 to 140 games have not graduated from 3.5 status to 5 star status. This is an alarming statistic whilst other AFL clubs (@westernbulldogs @GWSGIANTS @HawthornFC @stkildafc @melbournefc) have recruited the best assistant teaching coaches to support the head coach. You don't have to be a 10 year old to realise that Melbourne and Bulldogs have improved over 2 years due to the appointments of Brendan McCartney at Melbourne and Joel Corey at the Western Bulldogs. These clubs realise that at the end of the day, you can draft the best young talent, but teaching the youngsters and players who have 30 to 100 games under their belts via the right teaching methods is so crucial to develop the quality of depth within an AFL side. These clubs have copied the Bomber Thompson Geelong model of training up youngsters.
The appointment of Matthew Scarlett, Corey Enright and Simon Lloyd have been positive moves at Geelong. At least Matthew Scarlett will impart the Bomber Thompson teaching methods and since his FT appointment, our backline has improved since 2012.
But, the continual practice of appointing mates to the coaching staff does not bring objectivity and promotes a YES man culture. How on earth could Geelong appoint Matthew Knights to the coaching panel with Shane O'Bree???
Why has not Geelong appointed David Wheadon on a part time basis to oversee decision making acquisition skill and ball movement development? Or, why has not Geelong thrown the kitchen sink and offered Brendan McCartney a role at Geelong? He is doing wonders at Melbourne.
At the end of the day, Chris Scott inherited a Mercedez Benz at the end of 2010 and he had to tweak it. He basically inherited all of Bomber Thompson's hard work. After 2012, he has dismantled Bomber's good work and flushed all of Bomber's good work in developing and promoting youngsters; giving them a chance and teaching them the importance of winning CONTESTED ball and making good decisions during a game down the toilet.
Finally, Geelong should have demanded more for Josh Caddy going to Richmond and Nathan Vardy going to the Eagles. Geelong spent time and money in developing these players. Geelong should have bargained hard for Richmond's early draft picks and played hard ball with them. With Vardy, they should have done the same. Geelong needed early draft picks this year and giving away Vardy for a late pick is an insult. They have a chance to be superstars for their new clubs and it just shows that Chris Scott cannot develop youngsters into a Corey Enright or James Bartel. If a club hires a dud assistant coach in Matthew Knights and former Brisbane Lions teammates as Assistant coaches, it makes you wonder why we did not win the 2016 flag!
We did the right thing at the end of 2016 and recruited Dangerfield, Scott Selwood, Lachie Henderson and Zac Smith. BUT, Scott's continual failure in developing the B graders into A grade champions is a major concern whilst the Bulldogs, Giants, Hawks and Saints are streets ahead of us in terms of developing B graders into A graders.
Summed up beautifully and McCartney is an interesting mention. In 2011 which Scott is living off we had McCartney and Sanderson and Balme (plus of course players). So the decision to rest players would have been a decision combination of all of those and probably Scott as the new kid possibly played a minor role.
Mention of Wheadon also interesting as he came down in I think 2006/7 to assist, and did.
Everything since 2011 has seemed like accidental, due to good players, with little due to Scotts strategy and tactics and almost nothing due to assistant coaches. With the exception of the VFL premiership in 2012 or 13, with Knight at the helm, nothing to show.
2017 will be the test of Scott and co and with no new assistants-aqree throw money at somebody- I feel pessimistic
We all know he is an average coach - he believes his own spin. We get killed tactically and after 5 years he still hasn't come up with a game plan to move the ball out of the backline that doesn't involve bombs down the line. Chris Scott coaching tactic = bomb it out of defence and bomb it on top of Hawkins head.
Fo henderson is a b grader! Load of trollop
You are spot on. But, Brendan McCartney left Geelong in October 2010 to work alongside Bomber Thompson and James Hird at Essendon.
David Wheadon was appointed as a Part Time Decision Making acquisitions coach from 2007-March 2011. After Chris Scott's appointment, he decided to help Ross Lyon at St Kilda.
Chris Scott is a not a strategic coach like a Luke Beveridge or Alastair Clarkson. He has not developed a unique strategy to challenge or exceed the Bulldogs or Hawks.
The Cats have returned to the Blight era where the side relies on 12 players to win a final or a game. Under Bomber, he was a huge fan of developing a solid squad of 30 to 40 players who can win the contested ball; defend well; attack and make good decisions during a game.
Under Chris Scott, we will go backwards in 2017 and we won't win the Grand Final.
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Nah I think most were happy with our overall year. Cook and Wells rightfully copping abuse for trade week. Future pick for Tuohy? Trading Caddy for nothing. Caddy should be playing for Carlton and we should still have our future first rounder as well as Touhy!! We are senseless and get bent over every year.
Ray Donovan
Staring into the abyss
Show me where at brisbane carlton or geelong henderson is a A grader then
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If he plays next year similarly to this year he'll be a bonafide A grader.
Was close to playing some A grade footy for a while at Carlton when they played him as a defender.
I think the problem is perception. Clearly the decision makers at the cats believe we are in a 'premiership window' this is why we are selling the future to try and bolster the team in perceived areas of need. This may prove to be delusional, only time will tell. Scott is in the same space as Buckley and Hardwick. Probably the last roll of the dice this year. I can understand this from his POV. If we went for a rebuild he would ,in all likelihood , be replaced along with his 'yes men'
Lukewarm finishes like we have had for the last few years are probably the hardest to manage, and possibly harmful, as the prize always appears to be within reach.
Funny way of showing it. The off-season thus far has only made Geelong's best 22 weaker yet. Lost our most consistent defender in Enright and a best 22 mid/HFF in Caddy, as well as depth players like Kersten, Vardy and Smedts. Meanwhile, the deficiencies in the side remain. The midfield still doesn't bat deep enough to be premiership-standard (as exposed by Sydney in both games), there's a lack of run and skill off half back, lack of forwards who can consistently hit the scoreboard, lack of second tall marking option to take the heat off Hawkins.
I think that of this period, history will say Geelong's best chance for a flag was 2016, but they blew it. In terms of injuries that was the best season the club had had in a long time, and the best it's likely to have for a while. Injuries to best 22 talent are a disaster for the current incarnation of the side because there's so little depth to fill holes.
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How many of the Doggies are you calling A grade?
Hawks ahead of us in player development? Who for example? GWS hardly a fair comparison. Saints got a lot of good picks by hitting the bottom. So many on here can't even cope with just a top 4 finish, can't see 'em coping with bottoming out. Meltdown city.
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Vdubs
Hall of Famer
If we don't win the GF, do you realise we will have gone forwards?
Your point about converting B graders into A grade champs is very contentious. We have seen the departure now of all but 2 of our immortals, ie those triple premiership players (Selwood/Mackie), and have Taylor/Hawk/Duncan that have played in p'ships. THAT represents a wealth of talent, experience and success that has departed , retired etc since CS has taken over. And our continual success since 07 has resulted in a dearth of top quality high end draftees.
Yet we still finished top 4 this year after 10th last year. Danger played his best ever footy with us this season, and Selwood stepped up again. They happen to be bona fide A graders.
You just cant polish turds sometimes- those who have not made it to the A grade just never will. I'm happy to be proven incorrect here- if Smedts makes it at Carlton, Caddy at Richmond, as A graders, great for them, I will accede to your governance.[/QUOTE]
Most complaining of the top four finish want to bottom out and get draft picks for a couple of years.
...whilst, maximising the return from any trade you partipate in. But the draft should be used as the main tool for regeneration of the list. First and second round picks should only be traded rarely and only in special circumstances
Yes but we didn't win the premiership being bundled out without a whimper in the Prelim so no I wasn't happy with the year. The question should be why we fell to10th in 2015 not the glee of going to 2nd in 2016. With the same group with more games in them and, with the leagues greatest player, we still only made 2nd and lost badly when it counted. So not much to be excited about
Our ladder position flattered us in 2014. Form wise there actually wasn't that much in it between 2014 and 2015. As for our rise, two major factors were luck (injuries, other teams falling over near the end in a very even top 7) and our inclusions. Forget H&A as it was hard to split 2nd to 7th - we were about the 4th or 5th best team for most of the year. That's about where my expectations lie for next year - I think we have equal potential to move up or down from that range.
Ray Donovan
Staring into the abyss
Yeah it's possible but my point was i only graded
Dangerfield
Selwood
Hawkins
Taylor
A graders still at that top performance level and henderson as a B is fair he is 26 can improve but from what he has shown to date i do not think he could break through into A grade talent. I hope he proves me wrong
Ray Donovan
Staring into the abyss
Also this year i believe we played essendon and brisbane twice that pretty much is the reason we were top 4.
Sydney (longmire) out coached us firstly then out classed us it was basically identical to what happened in geelong in regular season against the swans. Better midfield spread and patiently picked our zone apart retaining the ball minimizing our ability to counter quickly which when you play a high zone press is what you are looking for. To spread the defence if you can force turnovers to win the disposal count and to win the inside 50s is the frustrating part.
We were predictable kicked long when held up by sydney to similar areas. Rampe and zac jones had both had a field day in memory and thats with allir going down in the first quarter.
Ray Donovan
Staring into the abyss
He also bombs the trade room just lucky danger and selwood wanted to come home. His is mirrowing his brother with slightly more success both scrubs we need to be brave or just steal clarkos next assistant lol
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