Review Dees v Lions Götterdämmerung: the Twilight of the Gods: good, bad and fugly

[Johnny Karate]

Good:
Avoid embarrassing ourselves in front of Geelong next week. Pretty sure they’ll pump Brisbane but surely the Lions are a better chance given how cooked we looked late.

Petracca, Harmes, ANB and Petty all busted their campaigners on a dirty night.

Bad:
12 goals to 5 from 28 points up with 16 seconds to go in the second. Every loss we’ve had this year bar Geelong has been similar. We get to a point of putting the game out of reach and then get really passive when the opposition gets a run on. At first we blamed loading and then it was injuries, surely the biggest factor is mindset?

Salem, Jackson, Viney, Brayshaw, Gawn, Oliver were passengers.

Fugly
The forward line
Undisciplined s**t from Pickett and Lever in the last
Sparrow, Brown and Rivers were all mind bogglingly s**t.

 

[danster168]

I felt like we lost the game in those 2 mins. We lost all #momentum.

yeah there was no effort to lock that ball in. the lack of game sense is why 'footy IQ' will always be the most important draft trait for any new draftee.

 

[Daemon]

I felt like we lost the game in those 2 mins. We lost all #momentum.

We lost it with team selection. Selecting out of form and banged up players. Add in a sprinkle of Method (TM) and it was inevitable.

 

[RandB]

How many more years on the Brown contract?

 

[Tulip]

That Petty contested mark is going to haunt me all night. The answer was right there, Goodwin, all funking season. Goodnight all.

 

[KickLongTackleHard]

We lost it with team selection. Selecting out of form and banged up players. Add in a sprinkle of Method (TM) and it was inevitable.

Nah, I’d pick a half fit Trac over Dunstan in any final. We should have put the lions away in the first half. Forward line and strategy came to roost.

 

[Dancing Potato]

How many more years on the Brown contract?

Just enough years to play him alongside a hobbled TMac and get some really strong learnings.

 

[SugarHealey]

Game was so far done before then anyway it didn’t matter

It was just one more brainfart on Levers head tonight. He started the rot, earlier in the game. Too many mistakes from him, putting us under the pump.

 

[Deelighted]

yeah there was no effort to lock that ball in. the lack of game sense is why 'footy IQ' will always be the most important draft trait for any new draftee.

Think I'm now danpilled, good posts tonight. Lachie neale is a great example, small, not particularly athletic but clean and very high IQ. We had too many who blunder in pressure moments.

 

[danster168]

Think I'm now danpilled, good posts tonight. Lachie neale is a great example, small, not particularly athletic but clean and very high IQ. We had too many who blunder in pressure moments.

As negative as I've been throughout the season, now that it's all eventuated the way. sadly thought it would, we can now focus on our deficiencies and work really hard to fix them. There's no way Goodwin can squirm out of this stupid game plan of dumping it inside 50m.

I really hope we don't see any of Ben Brown/Weideman/Tom Mcdonald next season.

 

[Mich0]

A lot talking about our forwardline and first place we need to start is with Spargo.

Spargo needs to go. And before anyone says his a good kick inside 50, he does it about twice a game which is next to useless.

I am sure we can find another good kick inside 50 who can easily do the same but actually get the pill more, crumb an occasional goal, not let his man (Coleman tonight) have a field day going back the other way and kick a 40m set shot without running right up to the man on the mark in an attempt to make the distance.

We are basically playing a man down with him in the 22 outside of his 2 inside 50 kicks a match that has Goodwin so in love his scared to drop him.

Don’t get me started on Sparrow who has had next to no improvement for the last 3 years when his meant to be coming into his prime. Or Rivers who has no real point of difference or role (is he a rebound defender, is he a lockdown defender?) or cement hands Dawes Jackson.

We should offer Jackson’s money to Mckay, and any picks we get to Carlton to get it done, throw in Salem for good measure. Petty, JVR and McKay up forward. (Let’s be honest 1 out of the 3 will always be injured anyway). Bedford, Pickett, Fritsche and Viney (let’s be honest Viney has no place in centre bounces and can actually win a 1v1 on the ground unlike our forwards) to round out the forward line. Finding another proper wingman wouldn’t hurt either, heard Dursma was unhappy, so could be an option.


Bowey May Deakyn Smith
Lever Turner Brayshaw
Dursma Oliver Langdon
Fritsch Mckay Viney
Pickett Petty Bedford
Gawn Petracca Harmes

Grundy, JVR, Howes, ANB, Laurie (Yes 5 interchange because AFL will probably **** with the rules again to allow it).

Out: Spargo, BBB, Rivers, Hunt, Salem, Melksham, Sparrow, Jordan, Hibberd

In: Mckay, JVR, Grundy, Dursma, Bowey, Deakyn Smith, Bedford, Howes

 

[Simon_Says]

We need more than just another ruckman.

# Oliver is just way too much one dimensional. Can't play another position.
# Petracca is also, too one-dimensional.
# Gawn is also too one dimensional.
# Lever is too one-dimensional... And too slow, by foot & across the ground.


# Brayshaw is able to play in many positions.
# Petty is able to play in many positions.

I think we need draft another inside/outside mid... to add some other style with which we can change thru the guts.

I think we need another hff with elite skills.

And I think we should chat to Lachie Ash.

I don't think I'm the only person who has this view but Lever doesn't do well when he actually has to man up. Prove me wrong though, more than welcome too but loves a good uncontested set up for intercept/ Rebound marks

 

[Simon_Says]

Thank god that season is over, hopefully goody realises doing the same thing over and over again don’t work.

and the players can actually indulge at the post season, and Brownlow. Clayton speech should be pretty all time, either all time good or well s**t cause he can't speak. Clarry for Chas

 

[Mich0]

I don't think I'm the only person who has this view but Lever doesn't do well when he actually has to man up. Prove me wrong though, more than welcome too but loves a good uncontested set up for intercept/ Rebound marks

Always been the story, just teams make him man up every week now to neutralise him so now his just a run of the mill defender who gives away 50m penalties when games are on the line.

 

[Simon_Says]

The writing was on the wall midyear that player management would have to cone into it. Geelong have done it all year.

Not much point in having a squad if you don't use it. Not good for developing depth either.

yeah which I'm sure MFC has been synonymously s**t with developing players from as far back as when we had Tom $cully and wattsy. True point, might as well play Rosman, JVR and Laurie. not like we have much to lose. might as well play them against North or GC

Yeah it's up there in all time finals losses. 1.20 faves against a team who haven't won at the ground in 8 years and have been walloped twice by us during the season. One of the all time monumental utensil ups for sure. Will be hard to live this one down. Already copping a million messages from mates giving it to me. This is gonna be a long summer

YEAH, its s**t mate, considering I never rip into them when they get done (Richmond last week!)

Petty forward should have happened way earlier, brown and jackson were useless. Feel like we've thrown both of these finals away. Also missed chances to play our kids all year, who could have made a difference. Bitter pill to swallow but still think we're thereabouts with some different personel forward and gameplan tweaks.

love your avatar, if I'm not mistaken is that Cameron Hunter? never got a run, injured.

 

[danster168]

A lot talking about our forwardline and first place we need to start is with Spargo.

Spargo needs to go. And before anyone says his a good kick inside 50, he does it about twice a game which is next to useless.

I am sure we can find another good kick inside 50 who can easily do the same but actually get the pill more, crumb an occasional goal, not let his man (Coleman tonight) have a field day going back the other way and kick a 40m set shot without running right up to the man on the mark in an attempt to make the distance.

We are basically playing a man down with him in the 22 outside of his 2 inside 50 kicks a match that has Goodwin so in love his scared to drop him.

Don’t get me started on Sparrow who has had next to no improvement for the last 3 years when his meant to be coming into his prime. Or Rivers who has no real point of difference or role (is he a rebound defender, is he a lockdown defender?) or cement hands Dawes Jackson.

We should offer Jackson’s money to Mckay, and any picks we get to Carlton to get it done, throw in Salem for good measure. Petty, JVR and McKay up forward. (Let’s be honest 1 out of the 3 will always be injured anyway). Bedford, Pickett, Fritsche and Viney (let’s be honest Viney has no place in centre bounces and can actually win a 1v1 on the ground unlike our forwards) to round out the forward line. Finding another proper wingman wouldn’t hurt either, heard Dursma was unhappy, so could be an option.


Bowey May Deakyn Smith
Lever Turner Brayshaw
Dursma Oliver Langdon
Fritsch Mckay Viney
Pickett Petty Bedford
Gawn Petracca Harmes

Grundy, JVR, Howes, ANB, Laurie (Yes 5 interchange because AFL will probably **** with the rules again to allow it).

Out: Spargo, BBB, Rivers, Hunt, Salem, Melksham, Sparrow, Jordan, Hibberd

In: Mckay, JVR, Grundy, Dursma, Bowey, Deakyn Smith, Bedford, Howes

I'm not sure whether this is to be taken seriously but the odds of McKay coming to us is the same as me being the most liked poster on Bigfooty. Carlton would literally want Oliver or Petracca and a first rounders to do that deal. Never in a million years.

 

[Simon_Says]

Grundy could be a very good move. Honestly, Max should have torn tonight’s game to bits against Darcy * Fort and god knows who else chipped in. Sadly, he is on the decline from his best football.

If we can get two good years out of Grundy and over the same period Van Rooyen and another forward (recruit? TMac?) are serviceable we could stay in the pointy end of the flag hunt while we have peak Steven May.

Probably answered my question but If we do manage to get grundy
considering Gawn and grundy are both either late 20's or early 30's who tf is going to be our Long term ruck Post Gawn?

 

[danster168]

Probably answered my question but If we do manage to get grundy
considering Gawn and grundy are both either late 20's or early 30's who tf is going to be our Long term ruck Post Gawn?

we got beaten by a team with Darcy bloody Fort as their ruck. The week before 193cm Mcstay rucked against Nankervis. it's not our most pressing issue

but yeah, a development ruck would be nice.

 

[danster168]

This is where we lost the game. The goal on the half time siren. Giving Brisbane all the hope and belief that they desired heading into half time. Viney what on earth are you doing!!?. Getting sucked into the contest as per usual and not having a single arm on zorko. We didn't need to score! have some game sense for goodness sake! and realise you need to lock that ball in like your life depends on it. There was 15 seconds left with our season on the line and you dish up that. I will remind anyone whoever suggests he should be sole captain of this moment.
Can't stand dumb footballers.
Game was over at this point. And only confirmed again at 3/4 time. Pathetic.

 

[Biffinator]

Brothers, it was never to be this year after the May / Milkshake bout. Hubris is always punished. That six page puff-piece on Petracca's 150th set it in stone

The real question to ask here is this: who improved as a player in 2022?

Clayton - yes. Stephen May - yes. Fritzsch and Langdon - close enough to a yes. Kossie, yes.

Max, no. Sparrow, no. ANB, no. Jackson, no. Rivers, no. Lever, no. Spargo, no. Bowey, no. Hunt, no. BBB, super no. Hibbo, no. Pettie, no. Salem, no. Viney, no.

We cannot go into 2023 with a rehash of 2021 - same recipe, same result

 

[Topkent]

I agree with Rivers soiling himself in big moments. Like, get rid of the pill mate, good god! But Hibberd has been fine. He's bathed up Charlie Cameron the last 2 times. The issue is our forward line, and only our forward line. Not the backs, not the mids, not the rucks, the forwards.

That's not true. Out rucks mids and HBFs are the ones who bomb it to the pocket. Can't expect even a gun forward to do heck all with that

 

[Crusty Demon]

We need blokes who can hit targets. This all of a sudden isn't an easy fix. The forwardline can be juggled around, even with the pieces we have I reckon we potentially can freshen it up, but our midfield and HB line is a real worry because pretty much all of them will remain.

Big off-season now. Tigers adding Taranto and Hopper is huge for them. Last year we got Dunstan who was never best 22. We need the balls to go after talent or we'll just be another Dogs who wins a flag after an amazing finals campaign then doesn't really threaten after. Some tough decisions simply have to be made this off-season.

 

[LarryDavidNeitz]

As many here did, predicted we would cost ourselves a flag wasting opportunities and playing that game style at about 9-0.

What’s more likely, that a bunch of us nuffs on BigFooty are first class AFL analysts able to correctly predict what’s about to happen, or that our problems were extremely ******* obvious and Goodwin failed to even attempt to address them?

Tonight was a perfect microcosm of the whole season:
- Deliberately kicking to the pocket on top of heads on attacking plays

- Forwards standing still waiting for the ball, not even not leading but not even attempting to get in position to be able to run and jump at the inevitable dump kick.

- Watching blokes with no natural goalkicking talent at all have about 15 snaps at goal between them without kicking 1. Why are they in the ******* forward line?

- the real killer is Goodwin refusing to replace blokes who were very clearly not having good years with younger players who went through a VFL season losing 1 game. Spargo, Sparrow, Melk, Salem, ANB. none of them had an entitlement to a spot last night and all of them let us down by being slow on the chase, slow to think, shocking ball use.

A season of arrogance, hubris and refusal to acknowledge you don’t win flags by strutting around thinking about last season.

We’ll know by trade period if Goodwin gets it or not. If we’re not making it clear that we understand the need for skills and forwards who exist to kick goals then we won’t be in the hunt next year either.

 

[Topkent]

To be honest, I'm not even that devastated by this loss. We have been playing a very lacklustre brand of football since the midpoint of the season. We were never going to win it the way we've been going. This is the reality check. We have to work harder, get fitter, make substantial changes to the forward setup and forward entry strategy. That was never going to come together in this finals series. This needs to be a big off-season, and one in which JVR enters the big time. We really need to get back into shape so we can run out games properly like last year.

We won it last year - it's not all doom and gloom. With some good work, we can be back on deck next year. All I hope now is that Geelong don't win it. Anyone else but them.

Im not devastated but I dont see how our era isnt over right now, Swans and Pies are playing a style that counters and beats our flag winning style which means we would now have to completely change our style to win it. We were the best at our style last year, I know we wont be the best at the new style next year we just dont have the players. The teams who lost, won one and then lost one before winning again (Cats and Tigers) were actually at their peak as a team in their flag loss years. Cats were 21-1 in 08 and tigers were 18-4 and the dominate side.

We were a terrible team the second half of the year. Bottom 8 in alot of stats.

Honestly think we are closer to the eagles of 2018 who won with the new defensive system which was out of favour by 2019 when they were 15-7.


Unless we radically change I think we are just gonna be making up the numbers again as of next year living on past glory

 

[Topkent]

Laziest player in the team. Has all the pace and ability, only ever takes the trick shot, has zero defensive pressure, and always seems to “just” miss getting there for the smother, tackle etc.

call me racist like a bloke did tonight at the game all you want, but he’s a lazy, piss take of a player. Cannot be relied upon weekly

Laziest player in the team? Youre ******* cooked as. He literally had a passage where he made multiple tackles and harassed causing a turnover for us.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

View attachment 1504425
This is where we lost the game. The goal on the half time siren. Giving Brisbane all the hope and belief that they desired heading into half time. Viney what on earth are you doing!!?. Getting sucked into the contest as per usual and not having a single arm on zorko. We didn't need to score! have some game sense for goodness sake! and realise you need to lock that ball in like your life depends on it. There was 15 seconds left with our season on the line and you dish up that. I will remind anyone whoever suggests he should be sole captain of this moment.
Can't stand dumb footballers.
Game was over at this point. And only confirmed again at 3/4 time. Pathetic.

Yep the 6 million dollar midfield of plodders, cant afford to be ball watching, ever....Also, Max on the turf? Shocked to be sitting here.