Review Dees v Lions Götterdämmerung: the Twilight of the Gods: good, bad and fugly

[Johnny Karate]

Good:
Avoid embarrassing ourselves in front of Geelong next week. Pretty sure they’ll pump Brisbane but surely the Lions are a better chance given how cooked we looked late.

Petracca, Harmes, ANB and Petty all busted their campaigners on a dirty night.

Bad:
12 goals to 5 from 28 points up with 16 seconds to go in the second. Every loss we’ve had this year bar Geelong has been similar. We get to a point of putting the game out of reach and then get really passive when the opposition gets a run on. At first we blamed loading and then it was injuries, surely the biggest factor is mindset?

Salem, Jackson, Viney, Brayshaw, Gawn, Oliver were passengers.

Fugly
The forward line
Undisciplined s**t from Pickett and Lever in the last
Sparrow, Brown and Rivers were all mind bogglingly s**t.

 

[LarryDavidNeitz]

Im not devastated but I dont see how our era isnt over right now, Swans and Pies are playing a style that counters and beats our flag winning style which means we would now have to completely change our style to win it. We were the best at our style last year, I know we wont be the best at the new style next year we just dont have the players. The teams who lost won one and then lost one before winning again (Cats and Tigers) were actually at their peak as a team in their flag loss years. Cats were 21-1 in 08 and tigers were 18-4 and the dominate side.

We were a terrible team the second half of the year. Bottom 8 in alot of stats.

Honestly think we are closer to the eagles of 2018 who won with the new defensive system which was out of favour by 2019 when they were 15-7.


Unless we radically change I think we are just gonna be making up the numbers again as of next year living on past glory

I think the solutions are there but we’re showing signs already of trying to be the Geelong of the past decade by bringing in whatever big names we can instead of playing the youth we needed to this year to refresh the team and keep our style relevant.

Atkins in the middle, De Koning and Stengle, along with a willingness to change their game to be more attacking, have made all the difference for the Cats.

Collingwood game is built around Daicos and attack.

Swans have Gulden, Warner, McInerney etc who all want to play fast and take the game on.

It’s just a fact that older players who have had success are inclined to jog around and play on their terms. We need an injection of youth and pace and to play accordingly.

 

[demondavey]

For a bloke who has 6AA jumpers, Gawn has been beyond awful the last two games. Beaten by a journeyman and someone who wasn’t getting a game aside from an injury.

 

[Tiger08]

Im not devastated but I dont see how our era isnt over right now, Swans and Pies are playing a style that counters and beats our flag winning style which means we would now have to completely change our style to win it. We were the best at our style last year, I know we wont be the best at the new style next year we just dont have the players. The teams who lost won one and then lost one before winning again (Cats and Tigers) were actually at their peak as a team in their flag loss years. Cats were 21-1 in 08 and tigers were 18-4 and the dominate side.

We were a terrible team the second half of the year. Bottom 8 in alot of stats.

Honestly think we are closer to the eagles of 2018 who won with the new defensive system which was out of favour by 2019 when they were 15-7.


Unless we radically change I think we are just gonna be making up the numbers again as of next year living on past glory

Pardon the intrusion. Firstly I'd say in 2018 I remember recognising just how hard it is to win flags in an 18 team comp, so appreciate the ones you do win. You start getting hunted and over analysed very quickly and the team needs to handle that.

Secondly, while flags are very tough, the Dees top end talent is so good you should absolutely be making Prelims. You have perhaps 3 more years of that, so Goodwin and the other coaches should be expected to get you that far. After that you can only hope for the best.

 

[demondavey]

Pardon the intrusion. Firstly I'd say in 2018 I remember recognising just how hard it is to win flags in an 18 team comp, so appreciate the ones you do win. You start getting hunted and over analysed very quickly and the team needs to handle that.

Secondly, while flags are very tough, the Dees top end talent is so good you should absolutely be making Prelims. You have perhaps 3 more years of that, so Goodwin and the other coaches should be expected to get you that far. After that you can only hope for the best.

To be fair, Richmond were elite in 2018 whilst we weren’t near it this year, threatening to even drop from top 4. I know what you’re saying, and I hope that this provides impetus for change. There’s nothing like a straight sets exit to give you perspective.

 

[Topkent]

Pardon the intrusion. Firstly I'd say in 2018 I remember recognising just how hard it is to win flags in an 18 team comp, so appreciate the ones you do win. You start getting hunted and over analysed very quickly and the team needs to handle that.

Secondly, while flags are very tough, the Dees top end talent is so good you should absolutely be making Prelims. You have perhaps 3 more years of that, so Goodwin and the other coaches should be expected to get you that far. After that you can only hope for the best.

Making prelims is useless if you aren't the best or second best team in the comp. Richmond were the best team in the comp who had a bad night. We aren't in the best 3 teams in it now and I can't see us wrestling that back

 

[demondavey]

Making prelims is useless if you aren't the best or second best team in the comp. Richmond were the best team in the comp who had a bad night. We aren't in the best 3 teams in it now and I can't see us wrestling that back

I can absolutely see us wrestling that back. Definitely.

Petracca
Oliver
May
Brayshaw
Lever
Gawn
Pickett
Petty
Langdon
Fritsch

That’s a core group of elite players that are game changers an A grade at their absolute best. We have an issue with our game plan, we have to stop the trend that is so obviously transparent of entering F50 that opposition can work out in a heartbeat. We need to look at the better teams this year (Geelong & Collingwood) and start taking the game on.

It’s time to blood younger players from Casey, see what they can do and also be bold with our trades. The biggest issue is we’ve stuck with the same core group all year for minimal reward but also a game plan that hasn’t adjusted.

Brown, Melksham, Hibberd need to finish. Salem, Hunt, Sparrow are trade material. We need to address our ball use and speed of movement, alongside opening up our F50 with pressure from that movement.

The biggest issue? Fitness. I honestly think we are unfit. I was pretty concerned when I learnt Burgess was leaving. We’ve gathered some good leads this year but relinquished them. That has to be fitness.

Not all is lost, but big decisions and tough ones need to happen.

 

[demondavey]

If Luke Jackson

9

Luke Jackson

Age

22

Ht

199cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.3

2star

K

3.3

1star

HB

5.0

4star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

3star

G

0.3

3star

D

8.3

2star

K

3.3

1star

HB

5.0

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

2star

G

0.3

3star

D

8.3

3star

K

3.3

2star

HB

5.0

4star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

3star

G

0.3

3star

is going to play like that at Fremantle, good riddance.

 

[Topkent]

I can absolutely see us wrestling that back. Definitely.

Petracca
Oliver
May
Brayshaw
Lever
Gawn
Pickett
Petty
Langdon
Fritsch

That’s a core group of elite players that are game changers an A grade at their absolute best. We have an issue with our game plan, we have to stop the trend that is so obviously transparent of entering F50 that opposition can work out in a heartbeat. We need to look at the better teams this year (Geelong & Collingwood) and start taking the game on.

It’s time to blood younger players from Casey, see what they can do and also be bold with our trades. The biggest issue is we’ve stuck with the same core group all year for minimal reward but also a game plan that hasn’t adjusted.

Brown, Melksham, Hibberd need to finish. Salem, Hunt, Sparrow are trade material. We need to address our ball use and speed of movement, alongside opening up our F50 with pressure from that movement.

The biggest issue? Fitness. I honestly think we are unfit. I was pretty concerned when I learnt Burgess was leaving. We’ve gathered some good leads this year but relinquished them. That has to be fitness.

Not all is lost, but big decisions and tough ones need to happen.

I can't take posts like this seriously
It's a game plan issue
It's a fitness issue

Can't be both. If it's fitness then the game plan is perfect because we've been basically 5 goals infront in every game except the cats which means the game plans great until the fitness fails. Terrible argument

 

[Lampers]

Didn't the dogs not make the eight after 2016

Yes, but importantly the Western didn’t make the eight at the ‘G, that’s the only not making the eight that counts.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

For a bloke who has 6AA jumpers, Gawn has been beyond awful the last two games. Beaten by a journeyman and someone who wasn’t getting a game aside from an injury.

When he plays soft and s**t like that we never win. Almost like the rest of playing group mirrors him.

Gets a pass on the basis hes having some sort of offseason surgery. Otherwise simply not good enough.

 

[Daemon]

I can't take posts like this seriously
It's a game plan issue
It's a fitness issue

Can't be both. If it's fitness then the game plan is perfect because we've been basically 5 goals infront in every game except the cats which means the game plans great until the fitness fails. Terrible argument

Surely there can be multiple things that contribute? It's true we have been overrun many times and it's also true our conservative gameplan has been countered or not worked many times.

 

[Topkent]

Surely there can be multiple things that contribute? It's true we have been overrun many times and it's also true our conservative gameplan has been countered or not worked many times.

If you Blame the fitness then in the first halves we are probably the best team in the league so the gameplan only falls apart when we get tired which can't be Goody's fault then.

 

[demondavey]

I can't take posts like this seriously
It's a game plan issue
It's a fitness issue

Can't be both. If it's fitness then the game plan is perfect because we've been basically 5 goals infront in every game except the cats which means the game plans great until the fitness fails. Terrible argument

Why can’t it be both? To an extent? When the tide turns and we are on the back foot why can’t we wrestle it back? The game plan is average in the sense that our delivery to our F50 is very poor. You’ve stated that yourself.

Perhaps it’s a lack of willingness to work hard defensively when that momentum shifts? Good teams absorb opposition moments, when they get a bit of momentum, we don’t, or can’t or won’t.

Call it fitness, call it work rate. There are definitely a few issues on the table that need addressing.

 

[Ando727]

Im not devastated but I dont see how our era isnt over right now, Swans and Pies are playing a style that counters and beats our flag winning style which means we would now have to completely change our style to win it. We were the best at our style last year, I know we wont be the best at the new style next year we just dont have the players. The teams who lost, won one and then lost one before winning again (Cats and Tigers) were actually at their peak as a team in their flag loss years. Cats were 21-1 in 08 and tigers were 18-4 and the dominate side.

We were a terrible team the second half of the year. Bottom 8 in alot of stats.

Honestly think we are closer to the eagles of 2018 who won with the new defensive system which was out of favour by 2019 when they were 15-7.


Unless we radically change I think we are just gonna be making up the numbers again as of next year living on past glory

I understand your reasoning, but I also think that we still went deep into the season with:

• poor motivation due to having already won it last year,
• relatively poor fitness,
• poor forward structure and personnel, and as a result poor forward entry strategy.
• The defence was adequate, we still get clearances.

That tells me that even if it seems old hat now, if we had addressed all those aspects, we would be up to our neck in this season. I think it could still be done next year. I don't think we actually lost because we were worked out strategically - even though we were. It was obvious what we were doing last year too. We just stopped doing it properly. We looked spent in last quarters - that's a huge factor. That's why we can't beat the Swans. They are like we were last year and that's why they are still in it.

I don't think the window needs to be closed necessarily - but it needs some maintenance and some new hardware. The single biggest thing that worries me is the psychology of the group - I still think the mentality is a bit brittle. And we're a little too pleased with the accomplishments of last year.

 

[demondavey]

If you Blame the fitness then in the first halves we are probably the best team in the league so the gameplan only falls apart when we get tired which can't be Goody's fault then.

I get your point, but teams quickly work out what we are up to. The game plan falls apart because we are slow, kicking it to a pocket, and adding no pressure up forward. Someone posted before about our fitness stats being significantly down.

 

[Topkent]

I understand your reasoning, but I also think that we still went deep into the season with:

• poor motivation due to having already won it last year,
• relatively poor fitness,
• poor forward structure and personnel, and as a result poor forward entry strategy.
• The defence was adequate, we still get clearances.

That tells me that even if it seems old hat now, if we had addressed all those aspects, we would be up to our neck in this season. I think it could still be done next year. I don't think we actually lost because we were worked out strategically - even though we were. It was obvious what we were doing last year too. We just stopped doing it properly. We looked spent in last quarters - that's a huge factor. That's why we can't beat the Swans. They are like we were last year and that's why they are still in it.

I don't think the window needs to be closed necessarily - but it needs some maintenance and some new hardware. The single biggest thing that worries me is the psychology of the group - I still think the mentality is a bit brittle. And we're a little too pleased with the accomplishments of last year.

We obviously have enough to play crap and still make the 8 but I'm just not sure we have it to be the best. Sydney aren't going anywhere

 

[Proper Gander]

Im not devastated but I dont see how our era isnt over right now, Swans and Pies are playing a style that counters and beats our flag winning style which means we would now have to completely change our style to win it. We were the best at our style last year, I know we wont be the best at the new style next year we just dont have the players. The teams who lost, won one and then lost one before winning again (Cats and Tigers) were actually at their peak as a team in their flag loss years. Cats were 21-1 in 08 and tigers were 18-4 and the dominate side.

We were a terrible team the second half of the year. Bottom 8 in alot of stats.

Honestly think we are closer to the eagles of 2018 who won with the new defensive system which was out of favour by 2019 when they were 15-7.


Unless we radically change I think we are just gonna be making up the numbers again as of next year living on past glory

 

[Topkent]

View attachment 1504478

Thought this was gonna be Steve carell, you've scarred me Peeg

 

[deeco]

Look we aren't far off here guys, if we keep doing exactly what we've been doing it's bound to work eventually.

 

[Ando727]

We obviously have enough to play crap and still make the 8 but I'm just not sure we have it to be the best. Sydney aren't going anywhere

Time will tell, mate.

I've thought of another problem which could be addressed: Goody needs to get over his strange loyalty to certain players. He needs to get a harder edge and be willing to drop his "mates" when they're not getting the job done. As much as everybody likes a stable lineup, pressure for selection lifts motivation and standards in the group. In short, he needs to know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em.

 

[Topkent]

Time will tell, mate.

I've thought of another problem which could be addressed: Goody needs to get over his strange loyalty to certain players. He needs to get a harder edge and be willing to drop his "mates" when they're not getting the job done. As much as everybody likes a stable lineup, pressure for selection lifts motivation and standards in the group. In short, he needs to know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em.

That and we've added a clause in Brayshaws contract that says he has to play midfield even though he's average as * there.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Him dropping James Jordon on the eve of finals and nobody else is absolutely mind blowing to think about.

Jordon isn't great, but we had far bigger problems in the side than him

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Jordon surely demands a trade ? Surely. I ******* would. Never been a fan but he deserves better.

 

[Dory_77]

Time will tell, mate.

I've thought of another problem which could be addressed: Goody needs to get over his strange loyalty to certain players. He needs to get a harder edge and be willing to drop his "mates" when they're not getting the job done. As much as everybody likes a stable lineup, pressure for selection lifts motivation and standards in the group. In short, he needs to know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em.

And adding a debut gives a bit of pep/spark to the group.

Him dropping James Jordon on the eve of finals and nobody else is absolutely mind blowing to think about.

Jordon isn't great, but we had far bigger problems in the side than him

Jordon got injured, otherwise I'm sure he stays in for our method

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

And adding a debut gives a bit of pep/spark to the group.

Jordon got injured, otherwise I'm sure he stays in for our method

Did he ? He was sub for the Brisbane game in round 23