Review Dees v Lions Götterdämmerung: the Twilight of the Gods: good, bad and fugly

[Johnny Karate]

Good:
Avoid embarrassing ourselves in front of Geelong next week. Pretty sure they’ll pump Brisbane but surely the Lions are a better chance given how cooked we looked late.

Petracca, Harmes, ANB and Petty all busted their campaigners on a dirty night.

Bad:
12 goals to 5 from 28 points up with 16 seconds to go in the second. Every loss we’ve had this year bar Geelong has been similar. We get to a point of putting the game out of reach and then get really passive when the opposition gets a run on. At first we blamed loading and then it was injuries, surely the biggest factor is mindset?

Salem, Jackson, Viney, Brayshaw, Gawn, Oliver were passengers.

Fugly
The forward line
Undisciplined s**t from Pickett and Lever in the last
Sparrow, Brown and Rivers were all mind bogglingly s**t.

 

[Johnny Karate]

Look we aren't far off here guys, if we keep doing exactly what we've been doing it's bound to work eventually.

Still think we can win the flag this year if we work incredibly hard.

Jordon surely demands a trade ? Surely. I ******* would. Never been a fan but he deserves better.

Think he was actually injured though.

 

[The Dr]

Him dropping James Jordon on the eve of finals and nobody else is absolutely mind blowing to think about.

Jordon isn't great, but we had far bigger problems in the side than him

JJ got injured I think


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[A11dAtP0w3R]

Must have been at training then, either way he was sub and dropped for the Brisbane game.

 

[Tulip]

When he plays soft and s**t like that we never win. Almost like the rest of playing group mirrors him.

Gets a pass on the basis hes having some sort of offseason surgery. Otherwise simply not good enough.

Supposedly he had a corky but honestly how can a captain just have his head down like Gawn when his team is being beaten

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

ugly: gawn's post match presser used the word learnings several times.

Nothing better than trotting out the learnings line like youre 13th on the ladder when youre supposed to be challenging for a flag. Puts supporters minds at ease.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Supposedly he had a corky but honestly how can a captain just have his head down like Gawn when his team is being beaten

He does it all the time, when the hangdog look comes over Max's face you know we are ****ed.

 

[Chalky White]

To be fair, Richmond were elite in 2018 whilst we weren’t near it this year, threatening to even drop from top 4. I know what you’re saying, and I hope that this provides impetus for change. There’s nothing like a straight sets exit to give you perspective.

Sorry to intrude. But from the outside it seemed you were elite.
Particularly for the first 10 rounds of the year. Personally I thought it's Melbourne by the length of the straight., then the rest
I'm not sure if it is battered injury, tiredness after a shortened pre-season or more sinisterly a big-headed attitude that maybe crept in.
I would be disappointed and really annoyed at the loss last night. But also thankful this team brought you silverware last year.
My belief is you will be still very hard to beat next season and will be in the frame again.

 

[Marns]

JJ got injured I think


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Speaking of, he was sitting on level 2 of the Ponsford last night. Looked dejected leaving the ground

 

[stEdy]

I respectfully disagree. At 10-0 we were clearly playing terrible football that was never going to stack up in the finals against the good teams. He chose to do nothing about it. That's on him. In the meantime, he's stalled the development of JVR 6 months and Jake Bowey as well by playing them in 2's.

We see a team like Collingwood win the close ones and you wonder why. Well I reckon with 15 seconds left heading into 3/4 time of a cut throat final they don't concede 2 goals. They lock that ball in like its a fight to the death. Pathetic the way they marched it out of the centre square. Same thing happened at the half.

The bad thing about this loss is Brisbane are one of the worst teams in the top 8. Losing to them is embarrassing. Even Sydney I don't rate. Goodwin has dropped the ball big time. And Selwyn has a lot to answer for. Can't run out games.

I want to see Brayshaw drop 6-7kg, Petracca can lose a few. Sparrow also. We need to become running machines. It's a running game these days.

What I'm saying is we won the flag last year with one of the most dominant finals series ever - so Goody has earned the right to back in his players and assume they'll rise in finals. They didn't. Seemingly for a number of reasons outlined in this thread. Big off season needed.

 

[Johnny Karate]

Sorry to intrude. But from the outside it seemed you were elite.
Particularly for the first 10 rounds of the year. Personally I thought it's Melbourne by the length of the straight., then the rest
I'm not sure if it is battered injury, tiredness after a shortened pre-season or more sinisterly a big-headed attitude that maybe crept in.
I would be disappointed and really annoyed at the loss last night. But also thankful this team brought you silverware last year.
My belief is you will be still very hard to beat next season and will be in the frame again.

Most outsiders saw the 10-0 and thought we were unbeatable but there were cracks there if you look hard enough.
R1 beat your mob by 26 but gave up 8 goals and trailed by 22 before pulling our fingers out.

R2 beat Gold Coast by 13 points in a pretty turgid arm wrestle

R3 beat Essendon but in between a couple of 3 goal bursts at the beginning and end we struggled for large portions of the game

R4 looked on course to give Port an all time hammering but kind of sleepwalked to a 5 goal win.

R5 Probably our best performance of the bunch in flogging GWS but we only really put it on the board in the 3rd.

R6 beat Richmond by 22 but made it a lot harder than it should’ve been by kicking 9.22

R7 beat Hawthorn by 10 points but looked pretty vulnerable at stages against a quite average side.

R8 beat St Kilda by 38 but did by having a great first quarter and walking on water for about 10 minutes in the 2nd. Outside of that it was a slog.

R9 beat West Coast by 74 - flogged them in the first and the last but fought a virtual nil all draw in the 2nd and third.

R10 beat North by 7 or 8 goals and couldn’t really shake them til the last.

So, if you look at that in total we were only really doing it in bursts against largely average sides. When we needed to go up a few gears and do it for longer against the pointy end we were found wanting. Didn’t help that we had a few injuries and continuity issues at the time but thems the breaks. Other teams have achieved more with a worse run of injuries.

 

[LarryDavidNeitz]

One thing that really annoys me is that we do this to ourselves deliberately.

Our game plan is when the ball gets down the opposition end, our forwards all push right up the ground to outnumber at the contest. This is the part that doesn’t work, because when we win the ball we’ve got nobody to kick to, and we don’t have enough speed and skill to spread from the contest all the way up the ground and convert.

We are a totally different side when we win from centre bounces or intercept the ball up the ground and move quickly.

I think the fade-outs in second half are a result of us proactively choosing to go into the ‘get the forwards up the ground to outnumber’ style once we get in front- this is what Goodwin refers to as getting the game on our terms. He wants us to get in front then strangle the other team.

What actually happens is we end up cutting off our own chances of scoring and giving the opposition lots of territory. We’d be much better off letting our gun midfielders do their job and leaving dangerous forwards in dangerous positions.

 

[ptrg]

Brothers, it was never to be this year after the May / Milkshake bout. Hubris is always punished. That six page puff-piece on Petracca's 150th set it in stone

The real question to ask here is this: who improved as a player in 2022?

Clayton - yes. Stephen May - yes. Fritzsch and Langdon - close enough to a yes. Kossie, yes.

Max, no. Sparrow, no. ANB, no. Jackson, no. Rivers, no. Lever, no. Spargo, no. Bowey, no. Hunt, no. BBB, super no. Hibbo, no. Pettie, no. Salem, no. Viney, no.

We cannot go into 2023 with a rehash of 2021 - same recipe, same result

Agree with all your assessments except Picket.
he’s picked weekly on “reputation” and maybe a few other reasons, alone (ie marketing etc)

Hasn’t improved in any of the important fields compared with last year, except maybe trick shots at training. (Don’t believe me? Feel free to browse AFL Tables - Kysaiah Pickett - Stats - Statistics )
I’d argue he’s defensively worse, accuracy and number of goals has not improved, and he seems to “make” less tackles and smoothers.

He’s down in literally every stat department; less tackles, less contested possessions, more free kicks against.

yeah we all love him, but he’s simply not there on merit. What really annoys me is that he is capable - as we see every single year we play in NT, he dominates. (Again, if you look at his average stats per venue, you’d swear NT is his home ground)
But the bloke doesn’t want to go near opposition players, unless it’s a “damn I’m just too late” bump, which he must be the king of down field frees this year.

weak as piss, like a few of the leadership team

 

[Daemon]

That and we've added a clause in Brayshaws contract that says he has to play midfield even though he's average as * there.

Is that actually true or just joking around?

Agree he has no place in the midfield.

 

[ptrg]

I'm not sure whether this is to be taken seriously but the odds of McKay coming to us is the same as me being the most liked poster on Bigfooty. Carlton would literally want Oliver or Petracca and a first rounders to do that deal. Never in a million years.

This shows how soft we are/will be in letting poor Jackson get to the single club he ”needs” to get to despite not being a free agent.

He‘s the most in demand moving player this off season, and knowing Melbourne, we’ll help him out and let him go for a sandwich.
We should be expecting almost the same as what Carlton would except for Mackay. Instead, we hear the sob stories, and the baffling inability for him to go to West Coast.

make a stand you soft utensils, and demand whatever west coast can offer, and if Freo can’t match it, give him either eagles or the draft. Time to make a stand for once and not be pushovers once again.

 

[ptrg]

Laziest player in the team? Youre ******* cooked as. He literally had a passage where he made multiple tackles and harassed causing a turnover for us.

100% stand by this. He has all the pace and acceleration, but if you actually watch him at the game live, he runs around almost as if to get the gps k’s up, has ZERO defensive pressure, and as I mentioned, has an incredible knack of always just not getting to the opposition player with the ball (and then usually giving away a downfield free)

Yes he does kick some great goals occasionally, but so could a small ammos forward, who would also be an absolute passenger the other 95% of games.

 

[ptrg]

When he plays soft and s**t like that we never win. Almost like the rest of playing group mirrors him.

Gets a pass on the basis hes having some sort of offseason surgery. Otherwise simply not good enough.

But but but he takes great photos with the kiddies during finals training sessions! (Along with the other “leaders”).
For me, that was the writing on the wall - they were just happy to be there running around sharing the experience with their young kids.
No genuine hunger to go all the way as a pack.

 

[Crusty Demon]

Our star studded mids got owned by Jarrod Berry

7

Jarrod Berry

Age

26

Ht

192cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.4

4star

K

8.5

3star

HB

8.9

5star

M

3.9

4star

T

4.2

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

17.0

4star

K

9.4

4star

HB

7.6

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

5.1

5star

CL

2.9

4star

D

10.6

3star

K

4.4

2star

HB

6.2

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.8

5star

CL

0.8

3star

!! Hahahaha

 

[Jamurp]

Was a weird feeling in the first quarter, we kicked the first 3-4 goals but I was more concerned about facing Geelong the following week, to then go on and lose was just bloody disappointing. Weird season in general, never got close to the heights of last season, and felt like we 'nearly' there but not quite, lot of grinding wins and not many satisfying ones.

Kinda glad to not have any investment left in the season tbh, need a break, here's to a better run next year.

 

[stEdy]

But but but he takes great photos with the kiddies during finals training sessions! (Along with the other “leaders”).
For me, that was the writing on the wall - they were just happy to be there running around sharing the experience with their young kids.
No genuine hunger to go all the way as a pack.

Mate what the hell are you talking about

 

[ptrg]

Mate what the hell are you talking about

Talking about our clubs attitude all finals. Constant “there’s always next week”, a million and one unnecessary distractions like changing the clubs name again, and as mentioned, I just got the vibe that we weren’t a hungry, win at all costs unit demanding success like last year.

Instead every training run was full of selfies and fun times with family and friends, trick shots for the cameras and self interest projects like podcasts. Didn’t see anything like that from any of the other finals’ teams.

dismiss it all you want, our culture and whole club attitude was/is currently shot.

 

[rugmop]

Gets a pass on the basis hes having some sort of offseason surgery. Otherwise simply not good enough.

This. Max was not going to play at all until the actual day of this game. His hip is cactus, and has been for the past 6 - 8 weeks. He is barely able to walk. A lesser being would have been in rehab. for the second half of the season, after undergoing major surgery.

 

[Bluelegs]

Talking about our clubs attitude all finals. Constant “there’s always next week”, a million and one unnecessary distractions like changing the clubs name again, and as mentioned, I just got the vibe that we weren’t a hungry, win at all costs unit demanding success like last year.

Instead every training run was full of selfies and fun times with family and friends, trick shots for the cameras and self interest projects like podcasts. Didn’t see anything like that from any of the other finals’ teams.

dismiss it all you want, our culture and whole club attitude was/is currently shot.

I feel you're trying to come up with intangible nonsense while ignoring the blatantly obvious. Our issues have nothing to do with the attitude of our players, their hunger, their kids, or selfies, or the vibe.

Our gameplan was worked out by other sides, and because we were basically always in games we never saw the need to make drastic changes. Every single game we lost this year was the exact same story. We played predictable, safe footy when other teams decided to go with dare and take their chances. The game changed and we didn't keep up with the pack, that's all. I think it's insulting to knock the players effort when they pretty much fought out every single game to the bitter end.

We all laugh at Demon Spirit but you're not going to find answers by looking at club PR. They are already there for you on the field.

 

[danster168]

That's not true. Out rucks mids and HBFs are the ones who bomb it to the pocket. Can't expect even a gun forward to do * all with that

I agree. but they kick it into the pockets under instruction to follow the game plan.

 

[danster168]

If Luke Jackson is going to play like that at Fremantle, good riddance.

Well yeah, he always runs underneath the ball and 2 grabs everything. His tackling was good but other than that. pathetic

 

[Crusty Demon]

Well yeah, he always runs underneath the ball and 2 grabs everything. His tackling was good but other than that. pathetic

He's 20! Will be a gun and will be way better than whatever we get in return for him.